Apr 2016 Archive, part c

A rather late welcome, but a welcome nonetheless!

Congratulations on the life stuff, and I look forward to seeing you around.

Since, as I recall, you are a fellow Washingtonian, (we really need a better name.) have this miniature Lady Washington. How miniature is it? Who knows. Knowing me it probably changes with the phases of the moon.

Nice to see people around! ^_^

Have pot of black-hole coffee and a self-updating guidebook of all the deathtraps in the multiverse. If you use it, do not listen to Phobos' advices about it.

Hope you're back for staying.

Here, have a cup of Lapsang Souchong and a bag of muffins.

I don't know if this is weird to say—please forgive me if it is—but I always thought you looked pretty in Agent Dann's photo, with the flower and the roguish smile and all. It's a way-old photo now, of course, but still.

What I MEAN by that is that I support you and wish you all the best in this new phase of your life. {= )

~Neshomeh

Glad to hear you'll be trying to take a more active role in the community.

Welcome back! It's been ages, haha!

Good to hear you're doing well in life, and that you've come to terms with everything. I'm not very versed in that, so I'll try to keep it in mind and not offend.

I remember you mentioning the circus when we last spoke in the IRC... sometime around when the pyramids were going up, I think? :P

Any exciting stories from the big top?

I want to apologize in advance, though. I have a fair bit of mental inertia, and it takes time to fully switch names and pronouns in my head. I will probably screw up at some point, but I will be trying to get it right.

All that said, it is good to have you back. I have thought that you going lurker-mode (or, I feared, just being gone) was a big loss to the community. You're a great person and lovely to have around.

Anyway, I think I read that you are doing aerial circus stuff? That's pretty cool. Do you have a preferred apparatus? Is apparatus even the right term? Circusy stuff is a form of performance that I am not very familiar with, so I'm interested to know more.

-Phobos

My gift to you is... Eh, I'm running low on creativity, so I'll just lend you my copy of "Excluded" by Julia Serano. It's special because it contains typos which can be used to decode a long-forgotten message... Telling of a world of which all knowledge has been suppressed. Read at your own risk... Also my copy of "Flatterland" by Ian Stewart. There's nothing special about that one; it's just a fun book.

Hi. I'm Key. Or Cat. Or whatever. I am a cis female who randomly happens to know a lot about transgender issues (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). I'm a newbie. I'm fairly young and have a lot of dumb ideas. I guess you know all that, since you've been lurking.

I like the logic behind your new username. It's elegant and charming.

--Key is excited to meet such a venerable old oldbie

An amateur circus sounds really cool! Has your group done any shows yet?

Also, thanks for sharing your new identity with us. I'll do what I can to support you. :)

Here, have an Equinox, she's a tad like you.

To help you on your journey, I present you with a towel and a pair of goggles! Also, there's no proper welcoming that doesn't contain chocolate, so here you are.

It is good to meet you, Deta Juliette!

-Vee

Please accept this finely-crafted NG+ starter Pokémon:-



Iiiiiit's Medicham!

And your starting item is:-


Wax Wings from Enter The Gungeon!

Wax Wings is an interesting and powerful item in the right hands. It's effect is pretty cool; it grants Flying STAB and all the resistances of the Flying type (with none of the weaknesses) and increases the holder's base Speed by 25%. On Medicham, it's basically there for the Speed boost, since Medicham's base speed is fairly average at 80, but it still give a resistance to Bug and an immunity to the common Ground attacking type, which is always nice since Medicham's defences mean it sometimes has trouble switching in. Try an Jolly one with EVs in Attack and Speed, and give it the moves High Jump Kick, Zen Headbutt, Thunder Punch, and Drain Punch for some additional healing. Most importantly, though: have fun. =]

As per tradition, I offer a slice of Infinite Pizza



For the next thing, now you got me question my own self. And I don't intend for it to sound in any way negative! I mean... I do feel like a man, and I never really questioned my gender...though people occasionally tend to address me as "Ms". Instead of gender, it made me question my masculinity :/ Who the heck am I?

It'd be good to see you around a bit more, so I hope this 'sticks' (as it were).

hS

It's so great that you're back that I'm completely willing to ignore all the water you've just splashed on to the carpet.

Good on you with all the gender change stuff.
I know bugger all about that kind of thing, but it must be rough. Or, at least, confusing.
I don't know, I've never tried it.

I must ask, by circus do you mean... y'know, big red tent, acrobats, lions and stuff?

Glad to hear we'll be hearing more from you again! Welcome back!

—doctorlit wonders if Agent Dann is now Agent Juliette, too?

I've been working on Inglish heraldry for my (as-yet-undeveloped) Plort self and could use some advice. I've been having a hard time figuring out the blazon. I'm trying to suggest piano keys (because I'm eschewing symbolism in favor of literally drawing my username), and I don't know how I'd go about describing the spacing. Maybe I should just forget about it and use a pattern of door keys and wooden planks.

--Key, maybe a merchant, maybe a wandering minstrel, who knows; I had an idea but didn't write it down in time

À bouche per pale dovetailed, urpure and arghent, a hand arghent and a winged serpent vantasable.

This is the only emblem of the vile C'l'br'n that is deemed printable by the college of arms. Representations of the 'dug and ice cream' standard are available to researchers by special request. Images of the 'staff and lavender' are illegal in the Union of Plort.

(Yes, the silver hand is a reference to Ithalond. Poor kid.)

hS, having way too much fun

In a quiet corner of Borrd, a storyteller spins a tale of adventure.

Above, storm wind and rain blew, and the wanderer cut and drew her sails- flame painted- as needed, to keep on course. Below, waves crested and broke against the prow, and against each other.

Her recently joined companion- one she regretted- tried to spit at her when she tied a length of line near him.

"Soon I will be home and rid of you," she said, crossly. "Though, it is strange the seas are behaving so, don't you think?"

Her companion ignored her.

The twelve Barons of Plort, flagged over their baronial seats (including the one that's a burnt-out ruin). I imagine this model sits in the council chamber in Otik.

hS

Are RPGs, the game systems, included in the art of Arpying? And would a Plort version of Gygax exist?

I've been wanting to get involved with Plort. Should I just set up a profile and go? Or is there a process? I'd be a civilian, of course, but since I'm hoping to become a knight someday, would that make me a page? If so, should I attach myself to a knight? Sir Ekyl seems to be putting together a militia; should I ask them? Or would it go by Big Sib/Little Sib pairs? I don't have a Big Sib, but I could join House Skull Goblet, Kind Words and a Two-by-Four, or Darjeeling.

--Key is excited

Are we allowed to add new stuff to the wiki if we have ideas and it doesn't contradict anything already available, or does it have to wait to come up in threads and such?

With her departure, shouldn't we find a replacement for her?

Greetings, Sir Ekyl of Godreve. I am Matthias Snow, newly named Knight from the town of Tumblar.

As you may have already heard, Baron Dann has named themself Baron Juliette the Forth. I would not normally be contacting you upon this simple matter, however the politics of Tumblar has led to much rejoicing on the matter, and I have once more discovered why exactly Dame Wandering Winterwood has nicknamed the area "Ye Olde Mob Rental."

Indeed I have found myself entrapped within my place of business, and I request assistance as soon as you can manage. Included is a map towards my Forge from the entrance to Tumblar from Godreve Road. I can apply arts of beytah on your arrival should you need it.

~Sir Matthias Snow, wishing godspeed to both you and this Pigeon on which my letter of knighting has arrived.

And would like to know: how would you like the records updated? I shall set my best scribes to the task, once I know what it is.

~Baron Neshomeh

I don't get a negative reaction when I think of her, so I guess I like her by default? IDK

So I wouldn't know anything spooky or specific.
All I'm saying is, is that she's got to have a pretty good reason to be such a nobhead, if she's such a nobhead, right?

I do think there can be an inherent bias towards inaction when you lump votes of abstention in the "do nothing" camp. Simply put, the Boarders in question are making it clear that they do not want to vote on the issue, and as such I support Phobos' decision to have them removed from the pool entirely.

So, there's a few things that we probably should decide on when it comes to bans.

First is the voting structure. There's been several proposals for that, and here's one more. First, to ban, you need a large percentage (2/3rds at least) of the people voting to vote yes.

Second, you need a quorum of Boarders to actually cast a (non-abstention) vote. I'm still fuzzy on what a quorum looks like. Maybe, say, a bit less than half of the people who've posted {in the last week, on the front page, some other such thing}. The point of this requirement is to stop a small group pushing a ban through (not that I think anyone would do that) while people aren't looking.

Third, like Phobos said, the vote closes some time (I like a day or two) after the last vote is cast.

I also agree that the person that's being voted on gets to state their case.

Then, there's the issue of how long we ban for, which is probably a case-by-case thing. Have we ever actually permabanned someone? I don't remember.

And then there's the question of what warrants a ban in the first place. I think the bans we've issued fall into two categories: persistent bad behavior after multiple polite explanations and such things, or doing something that's so out of line that you get shown the door. We might want to figure out what the consensus ban threshold actually is, but I don't know if this thread is the right place for it.

- Tomash

An IP ban, possibly? Simply shunning whoever it was that violated the Constitution? Disallowing them from getting Permission, or redacting Permission if they have it? I assume this has already been discussed, but I want to know how this is going to work.

I didn't get to follow most of the thread, but from what I did catch, I'm against the ban at this time in principle.

-----------------------

The accused should get a chance to explain themselves. It is in the constitution that people get a chance to explain themselves.

I did catch in the other thread that someone said something about not caring about what they had to say because they'd side with their friend.

----------------------

The biggest reason why I'm against banning right away is because it was done right away. The vote for banning shouldn't start for at least 48 hours so that people have a chance to cool off.

----------------------

DJ has some points. The language is a bit strong, but I've encountered negativity here. Also, when discussing the permission process, I think someone said something like 'why do you care, it doesn't apply to you.'

On one hand, other people might bring up something you have missed, causing you to see things in a new light. On the other, it makes tallying an even more confusing thing to do, and it can be said that if you are not decisive enough, you should abstain.

Thoughts? Ideas? Anything else?

While I agree with Phobos that the person being discussed probably shouldn't have a vote, why not include a provision for them getting to state their case? Obviously they would vote not to be banned, but that might be a good compromise as having say goes - since people making the proposal have to outline a case for a ban, it seems right that the person being discussed be able to present their own case for not being banned. But maybe I'm babbling pointlessly.

On Abstain votes, I believe they should be treated as neither for or against an action. Treat them as a separate entity all together.

The other thing I wanted to mention is on whether the accused should have a say. I believe they should be allowed to vote for the main reason that it will be an offset vote. The person initiating the ban will always vote in favor of the ban, or else they would not have brought it up in the first place. To explain the problem with that here is an example. A ban motion has been made. The person initiating it obviously votes yes. So for some strange reason no one else responds or they all abstain and we get 100% in favor 0 against and because that would satisfy the 60% as is currently required the ban would pass. This to me seems like an unfair result. So for that reason alone I think the person should be allowed to vote.

Alternatively I would suggest that the person proposing the ban is unallowed to vote for the same reasons. Or abstentions count neither for or against the ban, but totals to the amount of votes. For example 10 people vote so 6 would need to vote in favor for the ban. Of the 10 voters 4 abstain. That means the yeses would need all six votes to carry the motion. I am just looking at it as a way to protect the accused. These are just my initial brainstorming on the idea.

I also think there should be some number of minimum votes beyond percentages. For many of the reasons I mentioned above, I do not want to see some fluke were only five people vote and that allows a ban of a community member. I do not know what a good number would be, but I think there should be some number required.

As an example I would say that in order for a ban to occur one needs 60% of the vote with at least 10 people saying voting in favor. (Someone else would need to work out the actual minimum number, but you get the idea.)

I also would not be opposed to requiring 2/3 of a majority vote (66%) in order for the percentages to be met. Banning is the most serious punishment that can be handed out here and the requirements should reflect that.

So in short I say a minimum of 60% (though I prefer 66% at a minimum) of non-abstaining votes (if both the person proposing the ban and the subject of the ban votes are not counted or are allowed to offset each other) with at least X number of people voting in favor.

I do think abstentions do have an important role to play. They can help foster debate on whether the subject of the ban is actually deserving of it. And it allows people some time to gain new information and alter their decisions.

Now that I think about it more as I've been writing this, I am actually in favor a more formal process altogether. Not only discussion between the voters, but also a chance for the accused to be able to put on some kind of a defense. This really is a severe sanction and should be treated as such. Though I would allow less process for temporary bans.

So my process proposals:

3 months or less: No vote from the ban request or subject. Minor debate between voting parties, 50% +1 person. This is temporary and does not need quite as much protections

Between 3 and 6 months just change the percentage to 60% +1, minimum number of votes for (12 for a placeholder). In other words 60% of the voters plus one person must vote for with a minimum of 12 votes in favor, but with the +1 requirement it would amount to 13 votes for (the numbers can be adjusted, but you get the picture)

Up to a year: 66% of all voters. Minimum of some number of votes greater than the previous grade. (so 15 for now as an example). Vigorous debate between voters. Some kind of opportunity for the subject to be heard. In other words not only would you need 66% of all votes to be in favor, and at least 15 people to say yes. In other words even if you meet the percentage requirement if there are not 15 yeses, then I think there should be no ban at this level.

Permanent Ban: 75% Of all voters. Minimum of 20+ in favor of the ban. An absolute requirement of the person proposing the ban to state clearly and concisely the behaviors that in their mind warrant banning, preferably with chat logs and citations to the provisions of the Constitution that have been violated. Further the accused would be able to give his or her reasons why they do not believe they should be banned providing any evidence they believe in their favor (including their own chat logs if so appropriate). And any person who votes with a (nm) message should first be asked a follow up why (preferably with an answer beyond I just do not like them), and if no follow up is given said vote should be counted as an abstention until and unless some reason is given.

That's how I would set up the process or something similar.

Lets say 100 people vote and 50 are in favour of an unqualified ban and 25 say they want a temporary ban of one year. We have the votes need to go through with a ban, but should it be permanent or temporary?
Or should the person who proposes the ban simply state whether they mean a permanent or temporary ban?

I agree that abstain shouldn't be anything other than a non-vote (though honestly the best way to abstain and prevent getting lumped in is most likely to just not post in the ban thread at all.)

I also believe the person getting discussed shouldn't have a say in whether or not they get banned. As for how much of the vote is enough, I'd say give it a few days to collect votes, then if you have a 60% or more majority that's probably enough.

(Also yeas I am aware I said I would be taking some time off. I have another post to make before I go, and the wording is being difficult, so I figured I'd take a break and see what's up.)

I can't see how my decision was counted as "I'm against it". If I wanted it to be that way, I would've simply vote NO. Then why, you may ask, have I decided to abstain? The reason is simple, and I think all others who had abstained will agree:

I have no opinion on the matter.

It's equal to me not replying to the thread at all. If I didn't, would you still count me as a 'no', hS?

I've had an opportunity to observe parliamentary works from up close. And, referencing [this] post, not all voting revolved around "changing A to B", but also "should X be implemented", and in both cases there were abstain votes.

My proposition is simple, and I think that's what Phobos stated only explained more simply for uneducated folk such as myself:

We vote on X (be it a ban, a change, etc.). There are those who vote YES, there are those who vote NO, there are those who ABSTAIN. At the end of the voting - that's a separate discussion - we look at the tally. Example:

YES - 10
ABSTAINED - 17
NO - 5

In this case, the YES voters win.

Also, I may be wrong about this, but would a 60% majority really be necessary? By definition, a majority is the opinion of the bigger group of people. Even a YES-NO ratio of 10-9 would be in favour of YES voters.

I don't think abstentions should be counted one way or the other. Not in the totals to determine a majority; not as defaulting to whatever is the "default", whatever that is. (Surely the default for dealing with a disruptive person should be "ban"? But I digress.) Abstaining formally should get the same result as abstaining informally (that is, not posting) - your vote doesn't count at all.

The person under threat of banning also shouldn't get a say; they're effectively suspended while the vote takes place. Of course, they can make posts defending themselves and trying to convince people to vote for them, but their opinion shouldn't be treated as a vote.

To counter the issue brought up below, about a 10-2 vote out of 100 people leading to a ban: we should require some sort of quorum for this sort of vote. Say, 33% of the people who have posted on the front page need to vote (and not abstain). Then whatever majority we decide is necessary for a ban to go through. No quorum = no decision.

I've been thinking about this since it blew up a little bit ago. I like the fact that the way abstentions were counted by hS skewed the vote in favor of the subject of the ban because, in a way, it is keeping general lack of knowledge and/or apathy from getting someone banned. If you don't know enough to choose one way or the other, then the case for banning has not been made strongly enough. At least that is my personal feeling.

That said, I see the point that you and StormeHawk are making. If you really don't want to have your opinion counted, then that should be your choice. In fact, anyone who just didn't say anything in that thread was already not having their opinion counted. And that last point is actually what swayed me here.


So, I vote thusly:

Abstaining doesn't count toward either side and, in fact, shrinks the total number of votes being considered for purposes of determining percentages.

I also think a super majority of 66% of the pool should be needed to enact a ban. Banning is a big deal and a simple majority just isn't enough.

The person who is being voted on doesn't need a vote, partly because we already know what it will be, but also because it shouldn't be their decision whether they've broken the rules sufficiently to be banned. That is the rest of the group's decision.


By my thinking, if you have 101 people in the group and one is up for a ban, then the total starting pool is 100 votes. If 50 people abstain, the pool is reduced to 50 votes. In order to enact a ban, at least 33 of those 50 remaining votes would need to be in favor of the ban.


Let me know if there are any questions.

-Phobos

I support the idea of three categories: In favor, against, and abstaining. A sixty percent majority of all votes--counting the abstaining--to pass the ban sounds good to me. Presumably, a person abstains for their own reasons, and their opinion ought to be counted when it comes to passing the measure.

Furthermore, I think a response thread ought to be started in which each person who feels they have been wronged or have seen wrongdoing in a response to one of their own posts can report it, linking to the offending post(s). That way, no one person feels they have to shoulder the burden of finding every instance of abuse and reporting it. Then, if it's necessary, someone can go through and create a master list of accusations so it's easier to keep track of.

The political side of me comes out in this: I think there ought to be a small committee, perhaps three to five, consisting of people who both know the Constitution and are relatively unbiased in this matter, to go through the master list and see if each accusation holds water. This should be done as speedily as possible. They can then present the new list as evidence: If someone has a problem with the new charges, I'm not entirely sure what should be done. Presumably a debate would ensue, but it would likely result in a stalemate; this is the most tentative of my opinions. Feel free to completely disregard it--I know it would be a fair bit of work. Each committee would likely be different for each case for banning, but they don't happen much.

I realize that my suggested process is probably too laborious, but at the same time, banning is a big deal, and ought to be taken seriously. A process ought to be in place to make sure it's as fair as possible, and, hopefully, we won't have to use it much.

Those are my thoughts, take them or leave them.

-Alleb

Chyna, the wrestler, passed away as well.

I don't think I joined it...and I could really use some help fighting the Eye of Cthulhu in Terraria...

Of course, it'd depend on if anything important came up during the time, but I'm at the very least interested in it.

Don't expect me to do well though - I am Not Good At Strategy™

Mostly a hecka lot of water.

This planet's name is awful misleading, I tell you.

See the world, they say.

Yes, I have indeed seen an awful lot of the world, and it is indeed covered in quite a bit of water.

-July, somewhere in the Atlantic

The Good Buy, an online store dedicated to supporting the environment and workers' rights. Purchases also support the UUSC, which does environmental and humanitarian work around the globe with special emphasis on people and communities that aren't well served by mainstream human rights groups.

Yeah, it's pricey, but you get a lot of bang for your buck. {= )

~Neshomeh

.... from Earth.

Google have some really nice doodles for today. I think my favourite is the one with the elephant, but they are all pretty.

Anyway, speaking of the Gomantong Caves, have you seen BBC's Planet Earth? They did an episode on caves and the Gomantong Caves were in it. There's some really funny bonus material on the DVD as well. Interviews with the camera crew who talk about how they filmed that enormous pile of droppings.

"Alleb," Jesse said plaintively, for the fifth time. "I look ridiculous."

"No, you do not," Alleb said, not even bothering to turn to look at him as they walked down the grey corridors. "A moonrascal is a perfectly acceptable costume."

"Doesn't feel acceptable," the cowboy grumbled, swiping at the quills that kept brushing his neck. "How come you get to be the whatzit?"

"Whoosel," Alleb corrected. She spun the end of her long red tail, which she had to hold to keep from brushing the ground.

"Whoosel," Jesse repeated, resigned to the fact that Alleb would always be able to pull more weird words and facts out of her head, just when he thought she had expelled them all. "Why do you get to be the whoosel?"

"Because I asked you, and you said you wanted to be the moonrascal."

"I don't remember that!"

"You were drunk. It is not my fault that you cannot control your urge to excel your limits."

Jesse spluttered. "I don't have an urge to--to do whatever you just said!" He planted his fists on his hips, then immediately yelped as he was pricked by the innumerable quills the eccentric swordmaiden had sewn onto his coat. "I want to leave already," he grumbled.

Alleb, who still hadn't turned to face him, held up a finger. "There will be copious amounts of alcohol," she said, a knowing smile on her face, though Jesse couldn't see it.

Jesse paused in the hallways, watching Alleb walk forward without stopping, then cursed under his breath and walked faster to catch up. "Women shouldn't be clever and women," he grumbled. "That's at least two more advantages than us men have."

Alleb smirked. "How could women be clever but not be women?" she asked lightly. "That seems rather contradictory."

"With skill," Jesse said cantankerously, knowing he didn't make any sense but refusing to accept defeat.

Alleb chuckled. Then, suddenly, she swerved left. "Here we are, at last!" she said exuberantly. Jesse sighed, but she paid him no mind. "Come!" she said, hurrying through the door and into the low hum of conversation. The smell of food was drawing her--she was, after all, a teenager--and she hadn't had a decent conversation with anyone but Jesse in what felt like days.

"Yay," Jesse said, in a flat, unhappy voice.

And so the two entered the party: Alleb dressed as something like a red fox, complete with painted whiskers, and Jesse looking like a sour porcupine. It was going to be an interesting time.

((Woot woot, RPs! Love RPs. Thanks for putting this on, Dawn! Anyone who wants to, feel free to throw your agents at mine and see what happens! Also, random note, Agent Alleb and I are not the same age.))

((-Alleb))

Once he had collected himself after his latest mission, he had felt the need of wandering a little in HQ. And seeing if he could find a MP3 player to replace the one Marina had hexed when he had met her for the first time. The poor thing was now prone to glithes in the midst of songs, and his ears could only bear so much screeching.

He heard some noise coming from a door nearby. Something like a party. Curious to know what was happening, he entered in the room.

I'm a little late for the party, but I suppose I shall try to squeeze in.
Yes, these are my absolutely absurd agent concepts. One of them is a rather spacey Avox, and the other is a unicorn originating from a story I'm working on.


Donovan trotted down the nameless halls of HQ, trying not to think of where he was going, or what he was doing. Fortunately he was failing utterly. After walking past a corridor he thought he had passed several times-no, at least ten times- he sat down with a huff. This was ridiculous. How was he supposed to not think about going to a party when parties were so pleasurable?! He scowled, an interesting facial expression for a unicorn about the size of a dog.

Then for a moment, he thought he heard footsteps.

'Heddle?'
The steps quickened, and the unicorn soon found himself looking at a young woman dressed like a corncob.
'Heddle, you can't be serious.' Donovan rolled his eyes. 'No one disguises themselves like that!'
She shrugged and began walking away. Muttering angrily to himself the unicorn followed her.

Finch and Bingle were different in many ways, but today they were both united in their mutual pride in their outfits.

Finch was dressed as an old 21st century vending machine. This wasn’t a particularly glorious achievement, because Finch was essentially disguising himself as one of his grandparents.
He was a little thicker than most vending machines, the outlines of his four currently docked arms were conspicuous on his front and sides, and a very visible hole had been cut around the front of the costume to allow his single ocular to see, but, otherwise, he was a perfectly average hovering vending machine.

Bingle was dressed as a Man In Black.
This wasn’t a particularly glorious achievement, because Bingle was technically already one. He had a tall, sharp frame, dead pasty skin that was cold to the touch, grey, stringy hair retreating from the centre of his bald head, and a wooden nose.
He hung around that confusing area between alive and dead, and did it with the flippant carelessness of either a professional, or somebody too stupid to care.
He was very fond of the sunglasses, and found himself wishing that he could find more excuses to wear the things indoors.

‘Which one was Esther, then?’ Finch asked, in a soulless, steel voice that was unsuited to, among other things, discussing family holidays.

Bingle considered this, stroking his chin.
‘I believe she rescued the Israelites from the Egyptians.’

Finch shook his ocular in disapproval. Even the whirring its servomotors released had an air of disappointment to it.

‘That was Moses.’

‘Oh, drat. I knew that. She was the one who wandered in the desert for forty years,’ Bingle, taking his hand from his chin and nodding, certain that he was correct.

‘That was Moses, too.’

‘Oh, dear. I knew that. She was an Egyptian prince, born of a Jewish mother.’

‘What? That was Moses, too, you nob.’

Bingle was getting desperate, now. ‘Did she cross the Red Sea?’

‘You-ve ruined this holiday, Bingle.’

‘Was that Moses, too?’

‘That was Moses, too,’ Finch confirmed.

‘Good heavens. Awfully talented, wasn’t he?’

‘They had to be,’ Finch agreed, recalling all he had learnt of old earth history. It must have taken the Israelites some tenacity to fend off against the wild dinosaurs that roamed Europe in those days.

Ambient noises crawled in from the distance as they travelled along the hallway. Talking, laughing, shouting, dropping food and scooting away in an attempt to not come off as suspicious.

‘Are you calculating our deaths again, Finch?’ Bingle asked, picking up the increased whirring of Finch’s fans, as they desperately cooled his warming brainchip.

‘How many agents-ll be there, do you think?’ Finch said, fans continuing to pick up in speed.

‘This terror you have for agents is absurd, Finch,’ Bingle said, messy eyebrow rising.

‘All of my bloody terrors are absurd,’ Finch mumbled bitterly.

‘Can you imagine the trouble they’d find themselves in if they even touched us, Finch? The Flowers would positively shred them to pieces! Negatively!’ Bingle thought about his wording. ‘Positively!’

‘Just because it-s not meant to happen doesn-t mean it won-t,’ Finch argued. ‘The ceiling wasn-t meant to fall in, and look what happened to Castor!’

‘What happened to Castor was nothing more than an unfortunate accident,’ Bingle said, sniffing, a very hollow and windy sound through his wooden nose.

‘An unfortunate accident that happened. It happened, and now look at them. They-re dead!’

‘They are not dead.’

‘Looked bloody dead to me.’

‘Oh,’ Bingle said, shrugging. ‘They’ve had worse in medical.’

‘Their head was pushed right into their chest,’ Finch said, glancing at Bingle with slight suspicion.

‘They’ll be up in less than three weeks.’

‘Unless the ceiling falls on them again.’

Bingle sighed. ‘Finch, there is no chance that the ceiling will fall on us.’

‘That-s not my problem!'

‘Then why do you keep whining about it?!’ Bingle asked, stunned.

‘My problem is with the agents!’

‘The agents are just as likely to harm you as the ceiling is to fall on you.’

‘That-s my problem!’

‘The ceiling won’t fall on you.’

‘It bloody fell on Castor!’

‘I am willing to wager-‘

‘Thirty dollars,’ Finch growled, now facing Bingle.

‘Forty.’

‘And fifty cents.’

‘Seventy-five cents.’

Finch’s ocular narrowed.
‘Seventy.’

‘Is that a deal, then?’

‘If a single agent does anything that might be dangerous to me,’

‘I will pay you forty dollars and seventy-five cents.’

‘Seventy cents,’ Finch hissed.

‘Seventy cents,’ Bingle agreed. ‘The party awaits,’ He said, grinning and hastening his step.

‘So do our deaths,’ Finch mumbled, following.

‘And my payment!’

‘My payment.’

‘Forty dollars and seventy-five cents!’

‘Seventy.’



- So these are the fellows I've been working on for a while. Des told me I ought to bounce them around here, or something like that, so bouncing they are. I hope there're no expensive vases in here.
Suppose this is a perfect chance for you folks to tell me they're rubbish, then, too. So go ahead. Assuming they are rubbish.
I certainly hope they're not.



*Did I say seventy-five? I meant seventy.

shadowed Miss MacKinnon at a distance.

"Are you sure we should be doing this?" Fox was trailing far behind the other two, only keeping up at this point to avoid getting lost in HQ. He glanced down every entryway and open door they passed, eyes wide and one hand keeping his hair away from his eyes.

"Absolutely! I mean, why not?" Laquisha was moving forward with a marching stride, keeping pace with MacKinnon up ahead without letting the Nursery worker realize she was being followed. "It's a party! There's going to be food, and we might see all kinds of agents and stuff that we've read mission reports about, and . . . yeah, food!"

"It's just . . ." Fox trailed off for a moment as they passed an RC that seemed to be producing an electric sparking noise from inside. "I've heard a lot of agents can be dangerous, and I don't—"

"That's just a saying!" Laquisha ducked as a mini-Reaper spiraled through the air over their heads. "Agents aren't really crazy. They just have crappy jobs. But they're totally cool!"

"Yeah, no worries," spoke up Marty. He was keeping up with Laquisha, despite going at a more leisurely pace, and took in his surroundings with an easy air. "It'll be cool to meet some agents."

Fox, who had pressed against the wall as the mini passed, gave a burst of speed to catch up to his companions. "It's just, we weren't invited, and we aren't really supposed to wander outside the Nursery alone, and—"

"Chill." Marty half-turned and laid a hand on Fox's shoulder. "We're all right."

Fox shook himself slightly. "Sorry."

"Okay, you guys," said Laquisha. "MacKinnon just went inside. We'll wait a bit to let her get away from the doors, then head in!"

~—~

Testing out some of the Nursery kids who'll eventually be in Mollie and Ollie's class when hell freezes over I get back to writing. Prepare for awkwardness, 'cause I don't have much experience writing young characters. >_>

Since I'm awful at describing characters in narration, have a cheat sheet:
-Laquisha is black with curly black hair, tall but skinny, probably in shorts and denim jacket, twelve years old
-Fox is Hispanic, black hair with matted-down bangs, slightly shortish with a bigger build, wearing jeans and an "I ♥ Empire City" t-shirt, eleven years old
-Marty is white with blonde hair, average height/build, wearing a collared, button-down shirt and denim shorts, ten years old

DawnFire: I actually have last year's Purim RP saved in a Word document. I . . . think it's in a reasonable order? At least, to my brain. Would you like me to send it to you? (I need an email.)

—doctorlit realizes this is the most he's typed in a long time . . .

[RP happens after some 5 or so stories within my spinoff]

"Tell me again why we're doing this?" Ajax said. He was clad in his PAD-standard.

"Because I'm bored and hungry," his partner, Matthew said. He was also costumed, going as an old timey Blacksmith garb, "also because I want to see what one of these looks like."

"Why should we care? I mean 2 of us— ACK."

It was his former partner, Levy. Arriving with the two, she was pinching Ajax's cheek.

"Don't be such a sourpuss," she said, also dressed in her PAD-standard. "We came here to have fun, not angst."

Both Matthew and Nickul, Levy's Dragonborn partner, where snickering at Ajax's blush.

Speaking of Nickul, who is of an original canon, his costume consisted was a set of fake wings, given dragonborns of his ancestry, that is of a sea serpent, did not have wings.

"Yeah Ajax," the drake's posh voice came between sniggers, "we came to observe and learn about these... what did you call them, Jews?" Matthew nodded. "Yes Jews, and their culture, specifically why they chose this date to slay-"

Matthew interupted the self-proclaimed Book Wyrm "Well if we're gonna learn about them, then let's learn," he was still amazed at how much the three didn't know about human culture.

DCCCV finds himself in a gray hallway, with only a few claw marks to distinguish the walls from the ceiling. After getting his bearings, he looks around for any clues as to how he is going to get out of here. He hears some talking.

"Dangit, this is the PPC HQ," he thinks. "Better try to find a plothole home."

He hears some talking, and for lack of better judgement, decides to ask for directions.

Let's see where this takes me, shall we?

Ban
Permaban: Huinesoron, Phobos, Scapegrace, TheShyIon, sjosten (5)
12 month ban: PoorCynic (1)
6 month ban: eatpraylove (1)

Voted for banning: 7

Do Not Ban
One last chance: Ekyl, Badger421, Neshomeh, Iximaz, Desdendelle, Storme Hawk, Sergio Turbo, Hardric, Matt Cipher (9)
No action, wait a while: Delta Juliette, doctorlit, Alleb, Tomash (4)
No action: EileenAlphabet, VixenMage, [EvilAI]UberOverlord, DCCCV, Seafarer, Mattman the Comet, Hieronymus Graubart (7)

Voted against banning: 20

Other:
Is Data Junkie: Data Junkie (1)

Abstain: Larfen J. Stocke esq., SkarmorySilver, DawnFire, Cat-on-the-Keyboard, Firemagic, Edhelistar, July* (7)

Vocally abstained: 7

Total
7/26 people are in favour of a ban, or roughly 26%. 7 have abstained, one of which might count as a vote for permaban unless there is a decision to the contrary. 1 is Data. 11 people who have posted on the front page (as of the time of this post) haven't said anything.

Even if all of those eleven vote for 'ban', they will only amount for 18/37, or 48% percent. Even with July's vote counting as 'permaban', the result is 19/37, 51%. It looks to me like the verdict is "do not ban"; out of those, "one last chance" is the option with the most support.

Note that I didn’t change my opinion. But I guess the message was received. As far as I’m concerned, Data may return whenever they feel ready.

HG

Since Data left (and apologized in a way I am ready to believe), I see no point in furthermore banning him, as I think that's the result we are going to reach. I know that I've abstained from the voting, and who knows - maybe some of you think I shouldn't say anything about the matter anymore, but here's my proposition:



When the voting ends, the dominant option wins.

If it's ban - and we decide which one it's gonna be - we put it on hold until Data returns (IF he returns). Then, we sit and observe.

One more offense, of any kind, and he gets to use his "1 Free Ban" coupon.

No action

So the main reason I voted ban was that Data had refused to apologise. That's changed now - they've apologised, and they seem sincere.
Besides, they've behaved themselves for the entire voting process. I've found Data to be polite and friendly.
Therefore, I change my vote to no ban. (And that's my last word on this - if I seem to post recanting again, it's not me.)

Ban
Permaban: Huinesoron, Neshomeh, Sergio Turbo, Phobos, Scapegrace, Desdendelle, Iximaz, TheShyIon, sjosten (9)
12 month ban: Hieronymus Graubart, PoorCynic (2)
6 month ban: Hardric, Storme Hawk, eatpraylove, Seafarer (4)

Voted for banning: 15

Do Not Ban
One last chance: Ekyl, Badger421 (2)
No action, wait a while: Delta Juliette, doctorlit, Alleb, Tomash (4)
No action: EileenAlphabet, VixenMage, [EvilAI]UberOverlord, DCCCV (4)

Voted against banning: 10

Other:

Is Data Junkie: Data Junkie (1)

Abstain: Matt Cipher, Larfen J. Stocke esq., SkarmorySilver, DawnFire, Cat-on-the-Keyboard, Firemagic (I asked her off-Board), Edhelistar, July* (8)

Vocally abstained: 8

Total
15/25 people are in favour of a ban, or exactly 60%. 8 have abstained, one of which might count as a vote for permaban unless there is a decision to the contrary. 1 is Data. 12 people who have posted on the front page (as of the time of this post) haven't said anything.

In the thread about the ban process. Or are otherwise out of order. We do not want any vote to not get counted and possibly lead to an unfair or improper result.

I do think by then end of the mess Data Junkie did cross the line. However, it is my opinion that the line was not crossed until after people had started singling out Data Junkie.

While at the start Data Junkie did adopt an aggressive posture, in my year here that had really only been the only time I saw anything from Data Junkie. For that reason alone I think a ban is excessive.

Well, since I have been lurking in and out the last months, just to find the Board in a sudden storm, for which I have no idea what the causes are (even after reading what's beyond the links!), and for lack of more information, I decide to abstain in this matter.

Between working when the internet is available and generally being very busy with said work, I haven't actually had the opportunity to give my piece on this particular portion.

I've been holding back from entering further discussion or replies since my last regarding the whole matter for a variety of reasons.

While I would like to vote, and would vote for a permaban, I also don't think I personally have a right to vote as one of the primarily aggrieved parties, if not the primary aggrieved party here.

That said, the series of events that Data Junkie had repeatedly referred back to with regards to my behavior had ended with the suggestion of a ban for several of the people involved- at the time I had said I didn't want them banned, and wanted to give them a second chance, in accordance with the Constitution.

I eventually ended up leaving afterwards because that second chance given just resulted in more of the same against me, and now again, several years later.

I'll leave it up to someone else to decide how to count this vote, or even whether to do so.

-July

And as a marker against fraud, I'm choosing to go HP style for authentication with things a few people present on the board would be able to assure are correct, but are not well known items in and of themselves:

Way way back when when I was working on the first radio play with Sara and hS, I would bother hS by calling him 'boss'.

During the DC gathering, Shoe got lost and Phobos had to set out to go find him and bring him back to the vacation house.

doctorlit sent me a text message including a photo of bison. They were very cute.

Since someone has already tried to vote on my behalf, I can't let that happen. I also don't want to see one spur of the moment thing blossom into any madness.

It wasn't there for a very good reason - back when it was the Other Board, its anti-spambot protection was the fact that they didn't know where it was.

But T-Board has login stuff, so that no longer applies. You are correct, and I'll get on it...

... later. ^_~

hS

You can just bookmark T-Board's URL. Y'know, simple solution.

Bill seems fabulous - and I'll admit, we share a bit more than a passing resemblance to each other, so that's always exciting. I have very high hopes!!

-Vee

Like, pretty much literally my mental image of the Fourth Notary. Different outfit, obviously, the Fourth Notary wore tan slacks and a charcoal waistcoat over a white shirt, and she had dreads rather than a fro, but, well... it's her.

Hot damn, Lola is gonna have a time with this series. =]

See you around sometimes, eh?

—doctorlit salutes

I always believed that you genuinely tried to do something good, and it’s possible that we didn’t go through sufficient lengths to explain why there is no need to fix what isn’t broken. (Going through lots of posts to verify or disprove this may take a while, but why shouldn’t we all try to learn from such incidents?)

HG

It's always tragic.
Sure, you've made your mistakes, but who hasn't?

... since I'm unfortunately running off to work soon.

Just want to say this has been seen and acknowledged. I'd like to add "accepted," but I think it's going to take me more time to mull over everything that's happened before I can get there. However, it is a thing I will earnestly try to do.

~Neshomeh

Your apology may not be directed towards me, but I do feel their sincerity. May the Vishanti watch over you :)

Apologies are always hard to give, but that's always the first step. Good luck with your travels. Hope you'll be coming back someday. Takes care until then.

P.S.: May seem foolish to bring that up, but what about the tournament?

This is also an exit post. I'm jetting. If you guys decide to continue with the ban vote, I doubt I'll see the results, so if I do end up coming back before I'm supposed to (or at all if it's a perma-ban), just let me know and I'll be on my way again.

If not, it's thegirlsofgreece@gmail.com. Never linked my email before, so it may not turn out right.

-Vee

I believe you do have my email.

Always good to have people back aBoard.

Here, take this miniature Dainty Sload. It's the perfect size for a crew of minis.

Hello there, James Shields.
I will unfortunately admit that I didn't miss you, but my excuse is that, until this moment, you didn't exist yet in my mind.
My gift to you then is simple: Existence!
Don't spend it all at once.

Don't let long absences keep you away — it's not like you're obliged to know everything that's going on on-Board or anything.
Also, random question: are you a Troper?

Have this pot of black-hole coffee (you already have got one of my guiddebooks). Good to see you again. I hope you won't vanish again like this.

1/ From an out-of-universe perspective, it's pretty clear that Legolas running over snow was an off-the-cuff addition, designed to make him more 'elvish'. It's not reflected anywhere else in the Legendarium that I can think of. So Tolkien probably didn't think deeply about the details.

2/ From an in-universe perspective, July has the right of it: it's not lightness, it's nimbleness. We know Tolkien had a bit of a thing for tales of American Indians, with their bows and arrows - and their ability to walk through long grass without bending it (and to track by looking for bent grass, a la Aragorn). So Legolas is a super-Native - he's so nimble-footed that he doesn't even make a dent in snow!

2a/ Also, bear in mind it's not like Aragorn and Boromir sank as such. They deliberately carved out the avenues they did, through quite packed snow. If they tried to walk over it, they'd probably be ankle-deep, and in danger of a wrong-foot plunging through a soft patch.

3/ The most fun answer: how much would he have to weigh?

Okay. Snowshoes let you walk on snow. A picture I found online shows a snowshoe with 4.5 x the area of a human foot. Since pressure = force x area, the force exerted by the foot must be reduced to 1/4.5 x the norm by the snowshoe.

Weight is a force. Therefore, to naturally walk like a human in snowshoes, Legolas must weigh roughly 1/4 as much as a human.

For a six-foot human, the ideal body weight is apparently about 170 lb (~80 kg, or 12 stone). A six-foot Legolas would weigh a mere 40 pounds (20 kg, 3 stone). The ideal body weight of a child in kilograms is twice their age plus ten; working this backwards, Legolas would weigh as much as a five-year old.

Since I happen to have a five-year-old, I know that this means Aragorn could pick him up by one arm easily. For that matter, a hobbit could probably manage it. It also means he will never hurt himself by tripping over, unless he actually hits a rock - he's too light to bruise himself much.

He's not in danger of being picked up by the wind (okay, he's got a larger surface area for that mass, but even so), but... yeah, don't let a fighter get in range. Chucking a snowball at him would probably knock him over.

Oh, there's fic in this, for sure...

hS

..not that they weigh so little, so much as that they're so light of foot and graceful.

There are specific ways you can place your stepping to avoid sinking further into things like, say, mud and muck, or through heavy grasses, and also not leave as much an imprint or proof that you had passed through in the first place. Just like if you're trying to step quietly to avoid a squeak in the floorboards or the movement of a loose time, or something, and like there are ways you can walk on a rocking ship and continue in a straight line without ramming into anything or anyone.

I personally consider Tolkien Elves to just have hollow bones, like a bird's. That explains why they are so light. And who said that we couldn't shake elves around like a ragdoll? Elves simply just leap around, never getting into arm's reach while slashing like crazy with their light weapons. That's why we don't see elves with warhammers everyday.

At least, that's what I think. I've never tried fighting an elf before, so I wouldn't know how easily they break.

Can you imagine all the ways that could be exploited?
Tossing a snowball at one would be like launching a cement brick!

Or maybe people could make special elf-proof doors that have walls of snow right behind them, which the Elves can't pass through.

Perhaps the Elves themsElves could exploit it, and make a bridge which is nothing but rope and snow, and everyone else just falls through it.

The possibilities are practically falling from the sky!

Oh my.

Well, I'm definitely not a newbie now. Just a lurker. Here, ignore my monologue and have a plate of cheeses.

Have a sewing machine to hide in.

So you'll always look cool without trying!

Have a shovel enchanted to dig up... um... I think this is one page of the Book of the Damned.

I'll just... be over there.

As yer newbie gift, have this replica of the One Ring, that also works as TM25 Thunderbolt! You can also have this brand-new Net Ball and a sealed Safari Ball with a 0.001% chance of having a Chansey in it.

Have a box of Jacob's Cream Crackers and some Wensleydale. Cheese, Gromit!

Also, what's your favourite Pokémon? Type? Gym leader? Generation? Side-game? :D I'm excited for more Pokémon buddies.

Welcome! Have an Apple of Discord

To be honest I have no idea what it does.

Have one of my own shed feathers, and a Lyra plushie (now 100% free of any suspicious holes)! :D

Hello, hello, and welcome to the PPC! I'm Ivy, unofficial and self-declared resident deductionist. It's good to meet you! Have some chocolate; on the right is some fancy imported type with ginger and cashews, and the left contains Bleeprin. Happy reading!

-Vee

*high-fives* Have some popcorn to eat while you read the Original Series, a Focus Sash, and a jar of Zap Apple jam!

Have a seat by the fireplace. Don't worry, there's a below average chance it's a gateway to the elemental plane of fire.

For your gift, take this Replica Holocron. Useful for storing ancient knowledge of all sorts.

I look forward to seeing you around!

Have a random item as a welcoming gift! *rummages through closet* Have a pair of beaten-up sneakers and a cursed ring.

Please accept this elegant and finely-crafted starter Pokémon:-



Iiiiiiit's Onix!

And your starting item is:-



Copper Ammolet from Enter The Gungeon!

The Ammolets are really interesting items, in that they boost the damage of multiple-target moves by 25% and grant them an additional effect, in this case a 30% chance to burn. However, Onix isn't necessarily the 'mon to use them on. While STAB Earthquake is nice for burn spreading, Onix's Attack is hot trash and its low Speed means it won't be able to spread many of them. Additionally, there's a limit to how useful burn spreading even is for a physically defensive 'mon like Onix. The best thing to do would probably wait for it to evolve, but if you're determined to use it, try a Jolly one with EVs in HP and Speed and the ability Sturdy. Then, you'll want to give it the moves Earthquake, Rock Slide, Stealth Rock, and Explosion in the last slot - not a lot of people realize that the Ammolets affect moves like Explosion and Selfdestruct. Most importantly though, have fun. =]