Well, technically, an author rec. This author is Lynse (http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2045639/Lynse), and she writes wonderful fic. Her Doctor Who crossovers are, in my opinion, as good as The Man With No Name, and I'm really very fond of The Man With No Name. The Tenth Doctor is so very in-character it's scary, they're all brilliantly plotted out, the technobabble is incredible, and she has this habit of misleading both the Doctor and the audience. Never assume is a rule when reading her work.
Of course, those aren't only things she's written. Go take a peek.
-Aila
-
Fic rec! by
on 2013-11-11 06:43:00 UTC
Link to this
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...I just read a Doctor Who, Magic Schoolbus crossover... by
on 2013-11-11 10:06:00 UTC
Link to this
...And I liked it. Alot.
Since I'm in a critique mood right now, I will give some criticism. I felt like the story repeated itself quite a bit, though that was tied into the message of the fic. Drill it into their heads and such. I also felt that the kids were slightly ooc, mostly in how they spoke, but it was not too bad.
That aside though, it was very well made, and I do not regret reading it. The Doctor's voice was perfect, and the way the fic tied the begining and end together was brilliant. The author has skill, I will say that much. -
That's actually the one I haven't read yet... by
on 2013-11-11 23:10:00 UTC
Link to this
...but I've been PMing with her, and apparently that's the one that's not like the others. For one thing, there's nothing bad happening to the Doctor's timeline, and, as far as I know, nothing giving him a headache. And no twists. *shrug*
-Aila -
Oops, my spacebar stuck. Sorry. by
on 2013-11-11 10:46:00 UTC
Link to this
On the positive side, I think this is our first Mini-Bus! If that's positive.
-
Swords & Sorcery & Stockbrokers by
on 2013-11-11 14:23:00 UTC
Link to this
We've all heard about such books as 'Pride and Prejudice and Zombies', even if we haven't read them. They take a public-domain novel (such as, er, Pride and Prejudice), keep most of the original text intact, but add a distinctly modern plot to it (such as zombies, or in the case of 'Android Karenina'... well, you get the point). At least I think that's how they work. I haven't read any of them.
Anyway. My thought was - why should they only add interesting plot points? Surely there's a market for taking the fantastic and the bizarre and slotting something incredibly mundane in there?
Well... no. No there isn't. That's stupid.
But, maybe there's a PPC Board game in it. So here it is: Swords & Sorcery & Stockbrokers.
The rules are simple. Take a fantasy, sci-fi, supernatural, or otherwise non-'mundane' novel. Add to or edit the title to indicate the presence of something really, really boring from the modern world. Then take an excerpt from the book and edit it accordingly.
Since it wouldn't be much of a game if I didn't get to play, I've even prepared two examples.
Lawyers of the Lord of the Rings
In rode the Lord of the N.A.Z.P.D. A great black shape against the fire engines beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the N.A.Z.P.D., under the archway that no enemy ever yet had brought a warrant to pass, and all fled before his face.
All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Detective Inspector Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the properly licenced horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image constructed with appropriate planning permission in Rath Dínen.
"You cannot enter here," said D.I. Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. "You are out of your jurisdiction. Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the obscurity and nothingness that awaits you and your Master when you fail to close this case. Go!"
The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
"Old fool!" he said. "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know higher authority when you see it? Retire now and curse in vain, for I am now with the Arda Bureau of Invesitgations!" And with that he lifted high his badge and flames ran across the emblem.
And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of law nor of rivalry, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Sirens, sirens, sirens. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great sirens of the north wildly blowing. Rohan’s street cops had come at last.
High Finance Wizardry (Book 3 of the Young Financial Wizards series)
"Don't tell me she's still in the toilet," Nita muttered, annoyed. Reading the financial pages, probably. One of these days she's gonna fall in. She went back the way she had come, past the stairs, to the ladies' room. It was not only cold down here, there was a draft - a banker’s draft, stuck to the door. Nita pocketed the check - there was no point being wasteful. She grabbed the handle of the door and pulled; it resisted her slightly, and there was a faint hoo noise, air sliding through the door crack as she tugged. "Dari? Come on, we're leaving! The markets closed ten minutes ago!" Nita pulled harder, the door came open-
Air blew hard past her and ruffled her hair into her eyes. Bitter cold smote the front of her, and in it the humidity in the air condensed out instantly, whipping past Nita through the sucking air as stinging, dust-fine snow. The banker’s draft was pulled from her pocket and drawn through, despite Nita’s attempts to grab it.
Nita was looking through the doorway into a low rust red wasteland: nothing but stones in all sizes, cracked, tumbled, piled, with dun dust blowing between them, and not a bank or stock exchange to be seen. Close, much too close to be normal, lay a horizon hazed in blood brown, shading up through translucent brick color, rose, violet, a hard dark blue, and above everything, black with stars showing. Low in the crystalline rose burned a small pinkish sun, fierce, distant looking, and cold. Nita flinched from the unsoftened sight of it, from the long, harsh shadows it laid out behind every smallest stone, and most of all from the hideous, soul-crushing thought of how expensive it would be to repair the fixtures and fittings. She slammed the ladies' room door shut. Air kept moaning past her, through the cracks, out into the dry wasteland, probably wreaking havoc on the lifetime of the air conditioning.
"Mars," she breathed, and terror grabbed her heart and squeezed. "She went to Mars... and she didn’t even file for expenses!"
Fun? Not fun? Good idea but badly executed? Feel like joining in?
hS -
Definitely fun, by
on 2013-11-16 21:12:00 UTC
Link to this
A good idea, and well executed I think.
I preferred 'Lawyers', but I think that's mostly just because I was familiar with the original material - I've never read the Young Wizards books.
I would join in, but sadly the only titles I can think of are based on films or other non-novel things that would make the 'adapt it accordingly' part a little tricky. That said, if you were interested in a game of Dungeons & Dragons & Dentists, I could probably run one :P
Also, I couldn't help but notice that 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' sort of sounds like it's already received this treatment, just based on the title alone.
Also also, when you referred to a 'PPC Board game' my initial thought was that you meant an in-universe board game, like PPC Cluedo is, not a game that could be played on the PPC Board. -
Oh! These! by
on 2013-11-13 05:49:00 UTC
Link to this
I've always been interested in these, though I've never actually read one. But I've watched the trailer of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, and I thought it was...well...interesting.
I'm not really good at writing these kind of stories though...but I did enjoy reading the excerpt from "The Siege of Gondor". Or rather, "The Trial of Gondor". ;)
~Autumn -
Re: Swords & Sorcery & Stockbrokers by
on 2013-11-11 14:34:00 UTC
Link to this
This idea amused me far more than it probably should. I laughed particularly hard at "Rohan’s street cops had come at last."
I'll have to look through my collection and see if I can't come up with some good excerpts. I've already got a few ideas brewing.
-
I wonder... by
on 2013-11-11 16:31:00 UTC
Link to this
There are several FIM fics in the Unclaimed Badfic section, and I have wondered what a Rider of Rohan in the PPC would make of Equestria.
Anyone up to try? -
Make a Rohirric agent and write it y'self. :P (nm) by
on 2013-11-12 02:10:00 UTC
Link to this
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Are you... by
on 2013-11-11 23:42:00 UTC
Link to this
...asking someone to invent or take their already-existing Rider of Rohan agent and send them into a FiM badfic?
Just wondering if I understood correctly.
...of course, this is pretty pointless, as I don't know FiM remotely well enough to do a mission, but...I'm curious as to what you meant.
~DF -
Eeyup, that's what I mean. (nm) by
on 2013-11-13 16:20:00 UTC
Link to this
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RP Help by
on 2013-11-11 18:12:00 UTC
Link to this
Hey, I'm currently in a RP on another site and one of the guys in the RP has trouble describing things beside the weather, and seeing as this is a Pokemon RP creating and changing weather patterns is a fairly big thing. Basically I was wondering if anyone has any tutorials they used/use for help writing in more detail and if they're online could you share the link?
Thanks
Storme Hawk -
Another resource by
on 2013-11-16 18:37:00 UTC
Link to this
In addition to the various online writing guides that can be found, there is another source of useful info: online guides for role-players, specifically those aimed at Games Masters.
A GM faces a similar challenge to an author, in that they both have to convey everything they are supposed to be experiencing to their players/readers. Obviously it's not quite the same in each case, but there's a lot of stuff that seems transferable to me.
This article from the Giant in the Playground has useful tips on description, as does this article (relating specifically to descriptive language in fight scenes) from the 'Check for Traps' series on The Escapist.
Other possibly transferable topics for writing in general include world building and coming up with antagonists. -
I'm a little confused. by
on 2013-11-11 20:51:00 UTC
Link to this
Is your friend good at describing weather, but needs help with other things, or does he need help describing weather? This may not ultimately make much difference, since good description exists independently of the thing you're describing, but it might help me and others come up with apt examples. {= )
~Neshomeh -
I could have worded that a lot better by
on 2013-11-12 13:28:00 UTC
Link to this
Yeah, re-reading it it is fairly confusing. My friend's good at describing the weather but nothing else.
-
Bluh, sorry for taking so long to reply. by
on 2013-11-15 20:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Disclaimer: What follows is purely my personal opinion, based on my own experience, and may in fact be made up on the spot. Your Mileage May Vary. Take what works for you, leave the rest.
So, the thing about descriptions is that you need to understand what you're trying to do before you start. Because you're using words, you have to accept right off the bat that you're never going to be able to cram in all the details that your senses would pick up, and you shouldn't try. Visually speaking, descriptions in writing are not like photographs; they're more like impressionist paintings. The goal is not to be 100% perfect, the goal is to be good enough that your reader's brain can fill in the gaps. And they will, if you give them enough to work with.
Part of that is using the right tools for the job. You want to select words that say precisely what you want so you don't have to use lots of extra words beating around the bush; but at the same time, you don't want to worry about the precise words so much that you lose your audience. It's all well and good to know about the coruscating astral bodies in the crepuscular aubergine vault, but you'll get a lot further with your readers if you tell them about stars twinkling in the sky at dusk, because everyone knows what those words mean and they've all seen the evening sky before.
On a related note, it helps to describe things in terms of what your audience is already likely to be familiar with, and this is where metaphor and simile come in. This is pretty much the only way to describe smells, too, which tend to be the most overlooked despite being incredibly important. Again, it's one thing to try telling your readers about the pungent aroma of petrichor, but a far better thing to tell them it smells like the earth after it rains. Just about everybody can relate to that without needing to know a bunch of fancy words.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you're not just trying to put a picture or sound or smell in your readers' heads; you're trying to make them feel something. How people feel about an apple is likely to be very different from how they feel about a stop sign, so if you're looking for a way to tell us about the color of a girl's lipstick, think carefully about how you want us to feel about her. Stop-sign red is a warning; apple red is an invitation.
The right verbs are important when you're describing things in action, and this is a place where you really do need to worry about precision. To take an example from this essay about writing fight scenes, there's a big difference between hitting someone and smashing your fist into their jaw. You must also avoid passive voice like the plague. This is tricky to get a grip on, but in a nutshell, it's the difference between "Steve punched Joe" and "Joe was punched by Steve." The first sentence is active; it describes a thing (in this case a person) doing an action. The second is passive; it describes a thing having an action done to it. As a rule, active voice is more exciting than passive voice. It uses fewer words, so it's quicker to read, and it forces you to write the events in the order they actually happen, which means your readers can follow along without having to stop and update their mental picture all the time. Active voice is your friend.
... I think that's all I've got in me right now. Any specific questions I didn't cover? That's admittedly a very shallow overview.
~Neshomeh
-
Hi, I'm a newbie by
on 2013-11-11 21:10:00 UTC
Link to this
I've been lurking on the wiki for a while, and thought I should finally say hi. If you're looking for me on the wiki, I'm user Autofire.
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Hello, welcome to the PPC by
on 2013-11-13 12:46:00 UTC
Link to this
Hey and because I haven't said it enough times, Bonjour, Hola and Helo.
Have an Urple coloured pencil, it makes you focus on what you're writing 'cos if you focus on what you're writing with... Well, it's not nice. -
Welcome! by
on 2013-11-13 06:36:00 UTC
Link to this
Welcome to the PPC! A few questions:
How did you first run across the PPC?
Did you read the Constitution and the Original Series?
Do you have a favorite spinoff/favorite Agents?
As for your newbie gift, have a replica Keyblade! Ignore the random impact sparkles, it is totally plastic.
Hopefully. -
Re: Welcome! by
on 2013-11-13 22:55:00 UTC
Link to this
In order: I actually don't recall how I found the PPC, though I suspect it was through TV Tropes; I have read both the PPC Constitution and the Original Series; I found the reports of the Department of Technical Errors particularly amusing.
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Welcome to the PPC. :) by
on 2013-11-12 12:47:00 UTC
Link to this
Have a bag of pebbles and a Random Shiny Object!
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Welcome! by
on 2013-11-12 08:41:00 UTC
Link to this
Welcome to the PPC! We really don't bite. Mostly.
Maybe I should stop making that reassurance.
Here, have a top hat kitten. It's a top hat. That's also a kitten. Best not to ask, really. -
Greetings Battle-Brother! by
on 2013-11-12 07:01:00 UTC
Link to this
I am 99Hedgehog, but call me 99 for short. I have a habit of giving people things from Warhammer 40k, so have an Eldar Jetbike!
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eldar_Jetbike#.UoHR-_mkyLI
The Emperor Protects! -
Mae govannen! by
on 2013-11-12 06:11:00 UTC
Link to this
In case you weren't a LotR fan, here's the transalation: well met! On a random note, I'll pull out some Quenya: elen sila lumenn omentielvo! Here is some urple stress balls! Enjoy the Board!
~Autumn -
Ollo. by
on 2013-11-12 02:23:00 UTC
Link to this
So, then- question time!
What are your favorite randoms? Do you like manga? What TV shows do you like? What books do you like? What is the answer to life the universe and everything?
I know the answer is 42, but when asking a barrage of questions that has to be in there somewhere. Anyways, enjoy the PPC, and as a newbie gift, have a fluffy velociraptor, and some of the nms & nms of mine that nobody ever wants. -
Re: Ollo. by
on 2013-11-12 03:15:00 UTC
Link to this
Answers, in order:
Transformers and Kingdom Hearts (mostly Transformers); Yes; Leverage, Firefly and Beast Wars, I Am America (And So Can You!); 42. -
Hello, hello! by
on 2013-11-12 02:22:00 UTC
Link to this
Welcome to the insanity? Here, have a bottle full of bled paint.
-
Oh hai there! by
on 2013-11-11 23:43:00 UTC
Link to this
Welcome to the PPC! We love newbies here, so sit back, relax, and look lively! Oh, and leave your sanity at the door.
As a welcome gift, have some music by Joan Tower: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ_mnjI3koA -
*waves* by
on 2013-11-11 23:14:00 UTC
Link to this
Hello and greetings!
Here, have a lined Infinite Notebook, complete with urple covers and wilver binding. Watch out for your eyes!
-Aila -
Welcome, welcome! by
on 2013-11-11 21:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Autofire, autofire, why does that sound familiar? ah, yes.
Anyway, you should read The Constitution. It's important! To the wiki I don't need to point you, and I assume you've read at least some of the Original Series, so I'll just give you this cup of tea. Just don't let the leaves eat you.
PS: What are your fandoms?
PPS: Bonus points if you guess from which animé the clip I linked is without looking in its description. -
Re: Welcome, welcome! by
on 2013-11-11 21:54:00 UTC
Link to this
Actually, the "autofire" name came from me smooshing the word "Autobot" together with the name "Jetfire" when I was younger. Surprisingly, it has nothing to do with FPS games.
As you might be able to tell, my main fandom is Transformers; I am functionally familiar with most franchises that made it to the West, along with a couple that didn't. -
Re: Welcome, welcome! by
on 2013-11-11 21:55:00 UTC
Link to this
Oh, and since I forgot: thanks for the tea. I'll take care with the leaves...
-
A threesome. by
on 2013-11-12 00:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Cast of Agents
Olivia Fries, the more fiery of the two (OLI)
Rachael Winston, the calmer agent (RACH)
Kimberley Jackson, the third wheel (KIM)
OLIVIA
Rachael, we seek help, for healing that plot continnum,
so we shall join its Enforcers to raise it anew.
RACHAEL
So be we, Olivia, the Plot Continuum Protectors two.
OLI
Bah! Enforcers, Protectors, what be the difference?
And what light through yonder Eriu breaks?
KIMBERLEY
Pardon me, but I have gotten that jade plague.
I have been hoping with envy to be on your side.
RACH
A triad it is for badfic slaying, good friend.
And we shalt continue until the end.
[EXEUNT] -
There are several problems with your post by
on 2013-11-12 01:35:00 UTC
Link to this
The first wouldst be that thou art not agents.
Please note the section "How do I, er, join?"
Boarders are they that dwell within this place.
This piece of knowledge was bestowed on you
when last you came to introduce your selves.
I do recall, you see, when last you came
unto us in perplexing manner thus.
The others, helpful were, in that past post.
Perhaps you did not see the things they said?
The second, form of mini-Balrog takes;
for Eru didst thou mean in yonder post.
Fear not. The beast has gone upon its way,
the University awaits it now.
Thirdly, I do not know what point you seek
to prove with language of Shakespearian bent.
You lack the rhyme and reason for the verse,
and yet speak words archaic to my ears;
believing, I should think, that thou dost know
the manner of the syntax of the time.
To make intentions clear may I suggest,
perhaps plain English wouldst fare better here;
for others in this place speak not as I.
-Phobos, the resident Shakespearian bard
-
!!CHALLENGE!! by
on 2013-11-12 07:03:00 UTC
Link to this
Okay, here is a challenge. It's simple.
Write the worst Mary Sue you possibly can in your absolute favorite fandom.
The Emperor Protects! -
What? by
on 2013-11-12 09:26:00 UTC
Link to this
What's up with the exclamation marks? The only time they are used like that (formally [duh]) is in Spanish, where the exclamation marks in front is upside down. Anyway, let's get that out of the way...
Ahem.
(Fuuny enough, the last time I visited the Board, I told everyone sarcastically,"I had a sore throat." Afterwards, I really did get a sore throat. I guess Ailavyn was right...)
Presenting...the plot of "princess of loth loriel":
Chelsea-Cassandra Anithia Liliel Brooks, aka Lorithiellaria, is the daughter of Gladriel and Celegom, has been brought up by Elrod in her childhood. When she was thirteen, she was sent away to Earth for her safety. She, eventually, found a job as a waitress (she was offered to be a model, but was so humble she turned it down). Unfortunately, one day, she was raped and tortured by a group of generic men. Via plothole, she was sent back to Middle-eath, where all her wounds were healed by Elrod. She is still emotionally traumatised by her ordeal. Then, after the usual Sue-Council-Procedure, she became a member of the Felloship o da Ring, consisting of misogynistc Bromire and Gimly, hott and manly Eragron, hott Fodro, his servant Samy, hott Pipyn with a totally cute Scottish accent that makes Lorithiellaria giggle, Merrie, who possesses an uncanny resemblance to Charlie from Lost, and lastly...the most hott of them all...Legoals! (!!!!!!!!!)
Will Lorithiellaria die an angsty death, or will she fall in love with Leggy, have sex with him, and become the queen of Murkwood?" Or will this horrible fic (if I ever write this piece of crap) be reported to DOGA as soon as possible? Coming up with a generic Arda ruled by Mini-Balrogs was pretty painful.
~Autumn
PS: I always thought there was the Annual PPC Badfic Contest, but I suppose the PPC must be involved in the badfics written. Not really sure about that though... -
On a random note... by
on 2013-11-13 00:20:00 UTC
Link to this
The backstory of Tauriel has been revealed. According to Evangeline Lilly, “[Tauriel] is an orphan. Her parents were killed by orcs. When you understand that, you suddenly understand how and why this girl became the lethal killing machine that she is, how she became the head of the elven guard, how she got taken under Thranduil’s wings, and why she’s so passionate about fighting the evil that is in Middle Earth.”
And, apparently, she "is one of the few characters in the film who is purely fighting for truth and for justice. And she cares more about those two things than she does about any private, and personal, gain."
Things are starting to sound a little Sue-ish, eh?
~Autumn -
I'd say I give up... by
on 2013-11-13 21:29:00 UTC
Link to this
But we all know I'm going to see it in the theater anyway. *headdesk* Trying to keep an open mind is getting more and more painful.
Look, lemme just ask you this, fandom at large: How many elves don't have at least one parent who was killed by orcs, huh? Elves have been fighting orcs for a very, very long time. If Ms. Lilly is trying to make out like having parents who were killed by orcs is somehow an unusual thing to happen to an elf, she must, sadly, be mistaken.
Tauriel could still be salvageable depending on what comes through on screen, but her story as told here definitely has a whiff of Sue about it.
~Neshomeh -
Hmm. Flipside question. by
on 2013-11-14 11:28:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm assuming here that Tauriel is too young for her parents to have been killed during the Last Alliance - that is, I'm assuming that 'her parents were killed by Orcs' is an ambush, one-off scenario, not part of a massive battle, invasion, or war.
With that being said... how many named elves do we know of who were killed by orcs outside of cataclysmic battles?
Because I'm having trouble coming up with any.
Running through my mental Named Elf Checklist, we have:
-A whole bunch of people in Valinor. The only two who died are Miriel (of grief) and Finwe (of Morgoth).
-Feanor and his seven sons. They die of: possible ship-burning, balrog, jumping into lava, and... wow, do Cel'n'Cur'n'Car and Amrod/Amras really all die during kinslayings? That sucks.
-House Fingolfin. I count Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon, Aredhel, Gil-Galad, Idril, Maeglin, and Elenwe, which is eight. One dies of Morgoth, one of Eol, one on the Helcaraxe, three in battle, one of Tuor, and one (Idril) survives. Fingon was killed by Gothmog, so Turgon and Gil-Galad are our only possible orc-deaths.
-House Finarfin. Finarfin lived, Finrod got wolf'd, Galadriel lived. Orodreth, Angrod and Aegnor all died in battle, so may be orc-deaths 3-5. Finduilas was orc'd as number 6.
-House Thingol. Elu was killed by dwarves, Luthien died of old age, Dior, Nimloth, Elured and Elurin were kinslain. Elros died of old age, and Celebrian (technically of House Finarfin, but whatever) didn't die.
-The nobles of Gondolin. Running down the list of the Houses, I find eight lords not already mentioned. Two (Glorfindel and Ecthelion) got balrogged. I find Duilin, Penlod and Rog dying in battle (so that's 9), Salgant being a coward (let's make him 10), Galdor apparently survived (!), and Elgamoth died in the Third Kinslaying.
-The only other elves I can think of who died (not counting Arwen, or movie!Haldir) are Amros (lost at sea), Celebrimbor (tortured to death by Sauron, so maybe orcs), and Oropher (Last Alliance, so orcs).
So that makes twelve: Turgon, Gil-Galad, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor, Finduilas, Duilin, Penlod, Rog, Salgant, Celebrimbor, Oropher.
Twelve elves in the entire named corpus were killed by orcs. Ten of those were in major battles: the Dagor Bragollach, the Fall of Gondolin, and the War of the Last Alliance. The other two died after being captured in the fall of their cities - Nargothrond and Eregion.
Oh, and of those twelve, only three - Turgon, Orodreth, and Oropher - were survived by known children (and Orodreth only barely, unless you accept Gil-Galad as his son).
So... in answer to your question? Not a whole lot of elves are known to have parents killed by orcs. ;)
hS -
Well, okay, if you're gonna get all specific... by
on 2013-11-14 15:56:00 UTC
Link to this
Hm, I was gonna argue about Celebrían (the first one who came to my mind when I was thinking of orc-deaths earlier), but I guess technically fading and going over the Sea isn't dying. All right.
But, if we're going to be specific, let's look at instances of random once-off ambushes of named elves by orcs outside big battles. We now have two examples, right, Celebrían and Tauriel's parents? So, of our sample set, we've got one third that technically survived and two thirds that died, giving us a whopping 66% death rate for random orc ambushes. The statistics aren't looking so hot now, are they? ^_~
~Neshomeh is bad at this game, but oh well! -
Sure, let's do that. ^_^ by
on 2013-11-14 17:04:00 UTC
Link to this
I think there might be a few more than two examples, though...
1/ Celebrian. Didn't die.
2/ Tauriel's parents (sure, because they're canon, right?). Apparently died.
3/ The ambush on the exiles of Gondolin in the High Pass. Total death count: 1, to Glorfindel, by a balrog.
4/ I'm really tempted to count both the Dagor-nuin-Giliath and Dagor Aglareb, which are both 'Morgoth sucks at sending enough troops', but I'll be nice.
5/ The treacherous truce where Maedhros was captured. The only named character survived.
6/ The capture of Finrod and Beren by Sauron's troops. No-one killed by orcs.
7/ The orc raiding party outside Lorien when the Fellowship arrives. No named casualties.
8/ Every single encounter of the Fellowship with orcs. Legolas survived every one.
9/ The death of Beleg Cuthalion while rescuing Turin the Betrayer from orcs. Orcs didn't get him, either.
10/ Hmm... you know, that might be it. I can't think of any 'elves versus orcs' encounters in The Hobbit/LotR we haven't covered... and I can't think of any other ambush-type scenarios in the Silm. Did Aredhel meet orcs? Maybe, but I'm guessing it was just spiders (which didn't kill her, just to clarify).
Oh, we also have:
11/ Glaurung's little breakout during the Siege of Angband. He may well have had orcs with him. No elven losses.
12/ Morgoth's attack on Hithlum, also during the Siege. No noted losses, and since it's not one of the Battles of Beleriand, I think it counts.
What were you saying about 66%? I think at most the above is 10% - I'd say probably a lot less, but there's a couple where there may be mentioned-but-unnamed deaths.
Also: this isn't Beleriand, where orcs were rife. It's not even the Misty Mountains. Mirkwood's main problem is spiders, not orcs and goblins. They'd have to cross the entire forest to reach the Woodland Realm.
Heck, in the movie timeline, there were no enemies in Mirkwood until the attack on Rhosgobel. So how did Tauriel's parents manage to get themselves killed? Were they off hiking through Moria or something?
hS -
Well, gee whiz. by
on 2013-11-14 19:59:00 UTC
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And here I'd been thinking all this time that the forces of evil were dangerous. I stand corrected! Woe is Tauriel, for her folks surely bit it in a cruel and unusual twist of fate indeed if their foe was so enervated.
Or possibly it just makes them look stupid, I'm not really sure anymore. I've been blinded with science!
{X D
~Neshomeh -
Feh, 'dangerous'. by
on 2013-11-14 22:08:00 UTC
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C'mon, the Eldar had a thing where they would actually accept the surrender of any orc that offered it. None ever did, but the option was there.
In all seriousness (well, as serious as can be when discussing fiction): orcs are dangerous. But for most of the history of Middle-earth, they were dangerous in the same way that any enemy combatant was: you didn't want to fall into their hands, but there were front lines. Sure, you might get unlucky and stumble into a raid, but in general, 'home' was safe.
The main exception to this is the parts of the Second and Third Ages when Sauron wasn't around. That was when the orcs, for want of a better term, went feral: they hid in the mountains and occasionally scuffled with the dwarves. So that's less World War 2, and more guerilla soldiers (with a side order of cannibalism). Again, very bad news if you run into them - but they weren't exactly lurking in every alleyway.
Remember, orcs can't stand daylight. That's true right down to the War of the Ring. They really were just a mountain hazard, like, I dunno, rock giants? It's only under a Dark Lord that they became particularly mobile. The only orc war that wasn't under Morgoth or Sauron's direct control is the Dwarf-Goblin war - which, well, took place underground.
Could they have infested Mirkwood? In theory, yes - The Hobbit makes it clear that it was dark enough. Did they infest Mirkwood? The corpus says no.
So, Tauriel's parents? Unless they were with the Last Alliance, they would have had to hike to the Misty or Grey Mountains to get killed by orcs. It's not a very common fate.
(The time when it would have been common was after Unnumbered Tears - when Beleriand was overrun. But then, guess what? The Nandor took to the trees, and the rest of the Free People, once their various realms fell, fled to an island. They didn't just stick around in orc territory)
hS -
Your facts are ruining my nerdrage. {= P by
on 2013-11-15 16:44:00 UTC
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But yeah, I understand what you're saying. Orcs really aren't all that bad unless there are a great many of them being directed by something smarter and more evil than they are, and it would be fairly odd for a couple of even marginally competent elves to be taken down by a random handful of them.
I still think it sounds like a contrived excuse for Tauriel being extra-specially passionate about fighting forTruth, Justice, and the American Waythe destruction of evil, though, especially with her apparently being a contrived excuse for extra Legolas plot already. Not only does she have to exist in the first place, she has to have an angsty backstory that makes her superior in passion and warrior-ness to everyone around her (assuming the rest of Mirkwood's population are less interested in fighting evil, more interested in drinking wine, partying, and being jerks to any passing Dwarves), and there's something between her and Legolas. Orc-murders being vanishingly rare instead of common doesn't really help her case.
~Neshomeh -
Tell you what, I've got a cunning plan. by
on 2013-11-15 17:00:00 UTC
Link to this
How about we all wait a month or so, watch the film, and then decide whether Tauriel is a Sue or just an OFC?
And also, we can find out why there's someone roaming around Lake Town who looks exactly like Will Turner. Because that's really baffling me.
hS
PS: That... does seem to describe the population of Mirkwood, you know. Only you forgot to mention the moose-races. -
On Will-Turner-Lookalike!Bard. by
on 2013-11-16 08:06:00 UTC
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I remember when the first DoS trailer came out, there was a lot of discussion on forums about Bard looking like Will Turner. He's going to attract lots of fangirls, as far as I could tell, and I think the fact that he's played by Luke Evans already excited them.
However, I think they're going to include Bain son of Bard in the Movie, as well as two daughters that were never mentioned anywhere in the book. I don't think this is going to reduce the number of OC/Bard fics the Movie's going to spawn vastly, 'cause we all know how ignorant Suethors are...
~Autumn -
*nodnod* by
on 2013-11-15 18:49:00 UTC
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Like I said earlier, how she comes across onscreen will make or break her. But hey, maybe if I decide I hate her right now and then she turns out okay after all, I can get a pleasant surprise instead of more disappointment! {= D
Yeah, I noticed that guy, too. O.o He's... supposed to be Bard, I guess?
Ah, how silly of me! How could I forget Mirkwood's other national past-time like that? {X D
~Neshomeh -
What I learned today. by
on 2013-11-14 21:21:00 UTC
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Note that this is from the perspective of someone who has read the Hobbit and seen the movies as sources of canon for Arda. Oh, and osmosis through the PPC.
Holy cow, Elves can die of old age! I knew this was true of the Elder Scrolls, D&D, and every other fantasy world, but not in Middle Earth. I thought they were immortal as long as they didn't get killed. Or die of grief. For some reason. Sure, only, like, 5 reached that ripe old age, but it is possible!
Elves are oh so much better then humans! Praise our long lived, pointy-eared superiors, for while twenty orcs can decimate an entire village of humans, it takes hundreds to take out a single elf! Well, this is based off of statistics given, but still.
...By Eru, the Elvish hierarchy is complicated. I don't even think it's based off of culture per-se, but, and I am guessing here, how close they were to the Valar? This is either through blood, physical location, or following their ways? I am sure the Tolkien enthusiasts are twitching, as I am sure it is all wrong.
Well, that was... interesting. I feel like there is so much history here that I cannot even begin to grasp without a lot of time reading and studying the details about this fictional world. I'll give Mr. Tolkien this much: he is the single greatest world builder I have ever seen.
And now a question for the Tolkien enthusiasts. I am a fan of the Elder Scrolls seres of video games, and as it is a fantasy seres, it borrows several ideas from Tolkien. However, the Altmer, or High Elves, are said to be the closest to the elves we see in the Lord of the Rings. There is a seres of lore following the Altmer, that is so in-depth that someone who has never touched any of the Elder Scrolls games should be able to follow it. My question is: How close are the Mer of the Elder Scrolls to the Elves of LotR? -
A comparison. by
on 2013-11-15 16:33:00 UTC
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In the form of irreverent summaries of each mythos:
ALTMER
In the beginning God created lesser gods, who created their own lesser gods. One of these last was basically Loki, and he persuaded the gods to make the world for them to live in. But, being Loki, this was a trick to make them all separate beings and mortal. This is called the Sundering.
The sun and the stars were created by gods fleeing the world and tearing holes in reality. Some of the gods sacrificed themselves to become the laws of nature. The others invented boinking and became the ancestors of the Altmer. Then Loki invented humans to be a malleable army for him.
The oldest of the gods talked to God and asked to come back, but there was no ‘back’ to go to, because it had been made into the world. This was a very bad thing. So instead God gave him weapons and told him to stop everyone killing the Altmer (since there were at least two splinter groups by this time).
Loki’s armies conquered all the Altmer lands, destroying them in the process, but then an Altmari champion killed Loki and cut his heart out. The heart was shot into the sea, men outnumbered elves, and the stage was set.
The oldest god finally found away to escape, and promptly did, apparently to show the way to all the Altmer after. The elves really wanted to go back to the (destroyed?) continent(?) of Aldmeris, but, uh, couldn’t find it.
The Altmer underwent speciation (apparently with some help from a few gods) and built themselves a society. Their cities are individual states led by petty kings, intermarrying and so on, all under the nominal rule of one High King in Alinor on the Summerset Isles. They have a three-class system, with the lowest level being made up of, um, goblins, for some reason.
Altmer live for about a thousand years. They are very formal and, well, stuck-up, and apparently have species-wide Asperger’s, because they can’t read facial expressions at all. They have a Standard Fantasy Religion, like mucking about with art, and are magic.
ELDAR
In the beginning God created the lesser gods, one of whom was basically Satan. God got all the gods to sing together (seriously); Satan tried to ruin the song, so God had to introduce new themes to counter him. When the song finished, God revealed that their song had actually created a model of the entire history of the world - a world which he then created. The lesser gods went down and started to work on making the world like they’d seen it would be.
To light the world, they first built a couple of gigantic oil lamps, but Satan knocked them down and destroyed the gods’ first home. Then they moved to a new continent - Valinor - and planted two Trees of light. Satan stayed behind on the old continent.
A fair while later, God created the Eldar and placed them on the old continent. The lesser gods discovered them and invited them to come to Valinor. Some refused, most began the march west. At the same time, the gods declared war on Satan, captured him, wrecked his stuff, and dragged him back to lock him up.
Eventually, most of the Eldar reached Valinor, although a fair bunch had dropped out on the way. They were all very happy in the light of the Trees until Satan was paroled: he promptly killed the trees and fled back to his old base.
Because of drama, a bunch of the Eldar followed Satan. The gods told them not to go, then banished them when they refused to listen. Meanwhile, the gods made the sun and moon from the last fruit and flower of the Two Trees.
When the sun first rose, God created men, also down on the old continent. Meanwhile the Eldar were setting up shop in the old lands to fight Satan (and to meet some of their kin who’d never reached Valinor). They basically fought for hundreds of years, meeting humankind along the way (and allying with them), before they lost miserably.
The gods showed up again - with an army of Eldar who’d never left Valinor - and took Satan prisoner again, then shoved him out of the world entirely because they were fed up with him. At that point, most of the Eldar sailed back to Valinor, and the world slowly became the domain of men.
The Eldar live basically forever, and, yeah, are a bit stuck-up. They have no real religion (because they lived alongside the gods for ages, you know), are fond of art, and have… a sort of magic, but not one most people recognise as such. Politically, they have a High King and petty sub-kings and other rulers, but due to the geography of the places they’ve lived, the High Kingship is pretty ceremonial. By the time of The Hobbit/LotR, there are basically four Elven domains left: Lord Elrond in Rivendell, Cirdan the Shipwright in the Grey Havens, Celeborn and Galadriel in Lorien, and Thranduil in Mirkwood. Thranduil is the only one who calls himself a king.
So basically, in terms of their mythology? Other than the world being created and there being a bad god, there's not a lot of similarities. In terms of social and cultural stuff, which I haven't covered in as much detail... well, the Altmer look like fairly Generic Fantasy Elves. A lot of the stuff that gets stuck on those comes from Tolkien originally. So the fact that they're monarchist - stuck-up - long-lived - artsy-magicky - fond of trees - associated with the sea... that's adapted from Tolkien.
hS -
What Autumn_68 has learnt so far. by
on 2013-11-15 10:35:00 UTC
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I have learnt that not a whole lot of elves are known to have parents killed by orcs. However, some of them do get killed in rather creative and different ways...
Secondly, the death rate for random orc ambushes is at most, 10%.
Thirdly,
Vanyar (live in central Valinor with the Valar) > remnant Noldor (stayed behind in Valinor and never followed Feanor) > Finarfin's Noldor (turned back to Valinor before fully leaving the Undying Lands) > Valinorian Teleri (live outside Valinor proper, but in the Undying Lands, never left) > Returned Noldor (now living on the Lonely Isle in the vicinity of Valinor) > Exilic Noldor (followed Feanor, but were Caliquendi, after all) > Sindar (the Grey-elves, obviously better than the Nandor, because of Elwe/Elu) > Nandor (Wood-elves in general - totally dark) > Avari (who never left Cuivienen, so basically the darkest of the dark)
The Avari never leaving Lake Cuivienen is a relatively new piece of information to me. I always thought the Silvan were part of the Avari.
And lastly, Tauriel's parents were most probably hiking through Moria when they were killed.
A few questions still stand unanswered. Eg. Will Thranduil look down at Tauriel as a lowly Silvan Elf? Will Tauriel be a 'Sue? What really happened to Tauriel's parents?
December 13th, everyone! The Hobbit:Peter Jackson's Very Own 'Suefic!Desolation of Samug!
~Autumn -
Learning is fun! by
on 2013-11-14 22:20:00 UTC
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Dying of old age isn't really a thing for Elves. The oldest one we know of is Cirdan, and he just grew a beard ;). Luthien and Arwen both died of old age, true (which I think I referenced), but they were mortal at the time because reasons.
(Tolkien's actual view on what happened as the Eldar grew very very old is that their physical bodies would fade away entirely before the flame of their spirits. We don't talk about it much. ;))
Elves are totally better than humans :D. But yeah, the trick here is that I've been discussing named elves. Hithlum, Gondolin, Nargothrond, and Eregion - to name but a few - all fell to armies of orcs. They were often backed up by balrogs, dragons, or both, but the bulk of those armies were orcs.
The Eldarin 'hierarchy' Nesh and I referred to isn't a formal thing; it's basically constructed on, yes, closeness to the Valar. It's essentially in two parts: how close they got to the Two Trees when they were still alive, and how much they did what the Valar said after the Trees were killed. So the Noldor, for instance, all saw the Trees in flower. I split them into four: those who never disobeyed the Valar, those who left but came back before the final banishment, those who left entirely but returned at the end of the First Age, and those - like Galadriel (and in fact, at that point in time, pretty much only Galadriel) - who didn't go back until after the Third Age ended. Like I say, it's less of a heirarchy, more of a 'who thinks who is a rustic' thing.
I will try and look at the Altmer thing tomorrow; it sounds like a comparison could be interesting. But not tonight - I have NaNo to do!
hS -
I'm not sure if it's legitimate... by
on 2013-11-13 21:35:00 UTC
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...but there has been a gifset going around Tumblr taken from a scene in which she confronts Thranduil about how he would not consent to seeing his son with "a lowly Sylvan elf."
I know I'm going to see it anyway, but this time I'm resigned to a disaster ahead of time. -
Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but... by
on 2013-11-13 22:27:00 UTC
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Aren't Legolas and Thranduil themselves Sylvan?
-
Sort of. by
on 2013-11-14 00:17:00 UTC
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But, first of all, the actual spelling is "Silvan." So that's strike one against this thing.
The Silvan elves, or Wood-elves, are the people of Mirkwood ruled by Thranduil. However, Thranduil himself is one of the Sindar (Grey-elves). The difference is that the Silvan elves started on the journey to Valinor with the Eldar, but didn't actually cross the Sea; and the Silvan elves never even tried.
As elves go, the Wood-elves aren't as high and mighty as they Grey-elves, who aren't as high and mighty as the Noldor (who actually did get to Valinor but came back to fight Morgoth), who aren't as high and mighty as the Vanyar (who got to Valinor and stayed there).
However, there's nothing to suggest Thranduil would look down on his adopted people, and—this is the kicker for me—I don't think we know anything about Legolas' mother. For all we know, Thranduil mingled his line with one of Silvan blood (which would be convenient for cementing his rulership), which most likely happened plenty among his subjects either way. As we keep reminding the Suethors, barring a very few exceptions involving people who were known to be corrupted by evil, Elves marry for love, period. Status has very little to do with it. Look at Celeborn and Galadriel, for instance. Celeborn is to Galadriel as a Silvan elf would be to Thranduil, and they manage just fine.
Now I'm going to go make dinner and wait for hS to come along and correct any mistakes or oversimplifications I made here. ^_~
~Neshomeh -
You have such faith in me. ;) by
on 2013-11-14 08:08:00 UTC
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Actually that's a good summary of the situation. I'll just offer the footnoted version:
The difference is that the Silvan elves started on the journey to Valinor with the Eldar, but didn't actually cross the Sea; and the Silvan elves never even tried.
I think you were going for 'Sindarin' in the first instance, there. Actually both groups went a bloomin' long way on the Great March - we never in the entire history of Middle-earth meet any of the Avari who didn't leave the Waters of Awakening (Cuivienen) at all. Tolkien once wrote the word for 'elf' in six of their languages, and... that's all we know. Well, he also theorised that they might have been the first orcs - but he also theorised that about humans and animals, so that one's way up in the air.
Anyway, the difference between the Silvan folk and the Sindar is that they broke off the journey at different times. The Silvan... okay, look, 'Silvan' is English, and bothers me; I'm going to start using 'Nandor', which is one possible identity of their group. Okay? Okay. The Nandor saw the Misty Mountains and decided they were impassable, so they stayed in what would later be Mirkwood and Lothlorien. The Sindar reached the sea in Beleriand (late - both of these groups are part of the largest Third Tribe, the Teleri, and were a lot slower in the journey than the Vanyar or the Noldor), but then their king, one Elwe, went missing. The remaining Teleri split into two groups - one which crossed the sea to Valinor, under Elwe's brother Olwe (or Olue in the Telerin dialect), and one which stayed in Middle-earth to look for Elwe.
They eventually found him, and his new Maia wife Melian, and stayed in Beleriand as the Sindar.
As elves go, the Wood-elves aren't as high and mighty as they Grey-elves, who aren't as high and mighty as the Noldor (who actually did get to Valinor but came back to fight Morgoth), who aren't as high and mighty as the Vanyar (who got to Valinor and stayed there).
The Noldor split the elves into two groups 'Light Elves' and 'Dark Elves'. Light Elves, or Caliquendi, are those who travelled to Valinor and saw the light of the Two Trees. Dark Elves, Moriquendi, are those who didn't. (No moral connotations to the term, by the way!)
But the Sindar are in a tricky position. Their king was one of the three taken to Valinor to prove it exists, so he's definitely in the Caliquendi. His people are Moriquendi - except they have a demigoddess as their queen. So they were dubbed the Sindar - the Grey-elves, the elves of the twilight.
(They may actually have given themselves this name, but Noldorin arrogance makes for a better story. ;))
Neshomeh's hierarchy is pretty good. The full version, as seen from an Exilic Noldorin point of view (let's say Galadriel during the Third Age), probably goes like this:
Vanyar (live in central Valinor with the Valar) > remnant Noldor (stayed behind in Valinor and never followed Feanor) > Finarfin's Noldor (turned back to Valinor before fully leaving the Undying Lands) > Valinorian Teleri (live outside Valinor proper, but in the Undying Lands, never left) > Returned Noldor (now living on the Lonely Isle in the vicinity of Valinor) > Exilic Noldor (followed Feanor, but were Caliquendi, after all) > Sindar (the Grey-elves, obviously better than the Nandor, because of Elwe/Elu) > Nandor (Wood-elves in general - totally dark) > Avari (who never left Cuivienen, so basically the darkest of the dark).
But the only real manifestation of that was that the Noldor in Beleriand were pretty dismissive towards everyone. By the Third Age, the few who were left had gotten most of it out of their system - and there's no indication that the Sindar ever looked down on anyone. In fact, in the First Battle in Beleriand (way before the Noldor showed up), it was the Laiquendi - those Nandor who had crossed the Misty and Blue Mountains after a wait - who saved the Sindar from destruction. Being prejudiced against their saviours would be extremely petty, wouldn't it?
However, there's nothing to suggest Thranduil would look down on his adopted people, and—this is the kicker for me—I don't think we know anything about Legolas' mother.
This is very true - but we have one piece of information which shines a little light on it. While the names of Thranduil (tharan-duil, 'vigorous spring') and his father Oropher ('tall beech-tree', the first Sindarin King of Mirkwood) are Sindarin, the name Legolas ('green leaf') is not pure Sindarin. That would require the first syllable to be 'laeg', not 'lego'. So apparently he is named in Nandorin.
Also, there's this, from LotR:
'...the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk...'
That's Legolas in Eregion, which was a Noldorin land before it fell. So he thinks of himself as Silvan.
Celeborn is to Galadriel as a Silvan elf would be to Thranduil, and they manage just fine.
Let's not get into the question of who Celeborn is. But my preferred interpretation agrees with this. Of course, Galadriel is a lot less snippish than Thranduil...
hS -
You don't disappoint. {= ) (nm) by
on 2013-11-14 16:07:00 UTC
Link to this
-
I remember the gist now, typos aside. by
on 2013-11-14 04:32:00 UTC
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I only asked to begin with because I thought Thranduil was Silvan for some reason, and it seemed odd to me that Tauriel would be making such accusations to someone who's themselves Silvan. Eh well.
-
O.o But... but... by
on 2013-11-13 21:47:00 UTC
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No, I can't. If I try to enumerate the ways in which that is dumb, my head will explode. And that's just what the trolls want.
'Cause it's got to be trolls. Got to. @.o
~Neshomeh -
Hah! Called it. by
on 2013-11-13 10:20:00 UTC
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I've said all along that with a name like 'Forest girl', she had to be a war orphan. And hey, lookit that. ;)
I'm not sure I'd characterise that backstory as leading to 'fighting for truth and for justice', though. Seems more like it would lead to fighting every evil (which is good) in an attempt to find closure, exact revenge, and, yes, ensure no-one else suffers the same fate.
(Who wants to bet the Great WhiteWhaleOrc killed her parents?)
But, as with everything else - it's not the description that makes a Sue, it's the way she acts, and the way others react. If that description is accurate, she could be a terrifying character - one who hunts the enemy as a reason to keep on living, and will ruthlessly discard personal relationships and loyalties to get at the enemy. Or, she could be a Disney Princess who occasionally tries to kill things and has to be rescued by Legolas and refuses to admit her feelings for you've heard this all before.
Who can say? Well, okay, in about a month, us, because the film will be out. ;)
hS -
Oh, well. by
on 2013-11-13 20:15:00 UTC
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I thought with all the being Thranduil's favourite and "Leggy" being all protective over her, she sounded a little like a Sue. Then TheOneRing.net said she was going to Laketown without Thranduil's permission, (Legolas tagging along, of course.) then healing a girl the orcs (?) hurt. And now this...ah well, I guess we have to wait until December 13th and see then.
~Autumn -
I'm keeping an open mind, but I understand people's doubts. by
on 2013-11-13 10:42:00 UTC
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Also, because we were on similar wavelengths:
"All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to orphaned Tauriel, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Azog the Defiler."
(This also reminds me I haven't read Moby Dick since I was maybe four; I really should find a good copy of that and some other classics once I'm done with The Big Sleep.) -
"Starting to"? :P (nm) by
on 2013-11-13 10:03:00 UTC
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-
That... by
on 2013-11-13 20:39:00 UTC
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Before this I kept convincing myself Tauriel was not going to be a Sue. I stopped after I saw her angsty backstory. (Not that I'm saying she is a Sue, though. But there is a possibility.)
~Autumn -
I believe... by
on 2013-11-13 00:40:00 UTC
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...they did that on purpose. Peter Jackson read all the badfic and decided to parody it.
The Emperor Protects! -
Oh glod. by
on 2013-11-13 20:42:00 UTC
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I would love to see all the fangirls' faces then.
~Autumn -
If he did that... by
on 2013-11-13 02:14:00 UTC
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Oh man. What if she turns out to be a 'creature born of Morgoth,' or some BS like that, and Legolas himself kills her! Or, even better, if two female Uruk-Hai stepped out of the shadows and killed her for 'crimes against Arda.' Bonus points if they charge her first.
If this happens... The mixed cries of joy and pain would be delicious. Joy for the Sue-Elf being killed by her LO, dismay that Peter Jackson felt the need to screw over the story of the Hobbit for a badfic parody. Then again, Peter could not screw over the Hobbit any more then he already has, so perhaps it would be OK. I mean, if fat-bearded Goblin Kings can make it in, so can Mary Sues.
Yes, I am bitter over how he decided to portray the Hobbit, thanks for asking. -
An excerpt. by
on 2013-11-12 09:44:00 UTC
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Lothiriella was walking in the woods of Rivendale one day at night, her long silver-white gown glittering in the moonlight. She sang with her beautiful voice a lovely song, hoping to raise her spirit with the song:
I sang of butterflies,
Of grass and flowers,
Of sugar and glitter.
But none of these beautiful things,
Can ever compare to the beauty
Of my true love
And then she saw him. The prince, Legaols, was standing there, armed with a bow, looking ever so hawt and delicious. Her battered heart leaped.
Running to glomp him, she cried,"O hott one! You have come at last! You are indeed my true love!"
And then Legaols saw her, and his eyes widened in panic, for he knew she was a Mary-Sue, and that he would drown metaphorically from all her sugar.
Just then, the real Legolas jumped out behind the tree where he had been spying on the Sue, and shot her in the throat. Lothiriella clutched at her throat, as she tripped, and fell flat on her face.
Reaching out an arm, she whispered,"N-n-n-no! Leggy! I-I-I luv u-u!!!!!"
Earning a kick from a very disgusted Legolas, she shuddered and was still. Thus ended the life of Lothiriella, one of the many Sues in Arda.
~Autumn -
I think that's too broad (alternate challenge) by
on 2013-11-12 09:13:00 UTC
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And at the same time too narrow.
Why too narrow? Because why are you limiting it to Mary-Sues? The PPC is about far more than that - we have bad slash, implausible crossovers, improbable AUs, a whole heap of things.
Why too broad? Because there's no guidelines. You've given us a sandbox, not a real challenge.
So, I propose an alternate challenge, to be kept to this sub-thread (so as not to get tangled up with the neun-und-neunzig luftigel version):
Write a badfic, of a specific type of your choice, for every fandom.
I'll demonstrate in my reply, where I will take on... the Mary-Sue.
hS -
Isn't "every fandom" itself super broad? by
on 2013-11-13 09:55:00 UTC
Link to this
I mean, I'm in full agreement with the whole sandbox point you made, but there's a shedload of fandoms out there and writing a badfic, however short, for every single one is hardly practical. Sounds fun though. :P
(Also, death to the False Emperor!) -
You misunderstand. by
on 2013-11-13 10:15:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't mean write a badfic for each fandom - I mean write a single badfic which is for every (or at least most) fandom. It's rather more tricky.
hS -
Still extremely broad, but sounds interesting. :P by
on 2013-11-13 10:27:00 UTC
Link to this
Reminds me of that ultimate showdown flash movie that circulated the internet back in 2005. Or I almost want to say League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, with its literary megacrossover thing.
(USOUD was eight years ago. I feel old.) -
The Generic Mary-Sue by
on 2013-11-12 09:22:00 UTC
Link to this
Silvermoon Glitterbug danced across the floor, grinning all around her. Sure, the terrible destruction caused by that unexpected turn of events had doomed them all, but for now, she was alive, and with her friends, and that was all that mattered.
Her most shy and retiring friend - some would say sullen - felt it too, and grinned at her. "Wow, Silvermoon, you are an absolutely brilliant dancer."
"No, silly," Silvermoon beamed, tossing her hair, "I'm brillitastic. It's a word I made up just to describe me."
"Oh, you would," snapped her other friend, and Silvermoon frowned. This, coming from the one who was normally the most cheerful of the group?
"What's the matter?" she asked. "My friend, are you upset?"
"Am I upset?" her friend demanded. "You little slattern, why wouldn't I be?"
Silvermoon cowered, taking shelter behind her aforementioned quiet friend, who promptly took up her cause. "Say what you mean," her friend stated, "or I will be forced to rip your liver out through your fingers and feed it to Silvermoon's vampire pegacorn."
"Oh, she knows what I mean!" Silvermoon's supposed friend scowled. "Of all the people I have slept with (and there have been many), she has stolen the only one I truly cared for!"
"You never cared for them!" Silvermoon exclaimed back. "You only care for yourself!"
Her normally-cheerful friend stopped, frowned, and then burst into tears. "Oh Silvermoon, you're right! I have become so selfish and mean and I didn't mean to!"
And who knows what might have followed, were it not for the sudden entrance of a heavily-armed stranger, who took aim with a lethal-looking weapon and shot one of Silvermoon's friends - the most popular one, the one whose name was known to everyone (or at least everyone important) - stone dead!
-
As to PPCers in the Philippines. by
on 2013-11-12 08:07:00 UTC
Link to this
Hope you're all okay out there.
In case you haven't been following it, the death toll from the typhoon that hit the Philippines is still rising. I know we do have PPCers from there; please keep them in your thoughts, or prayers if you're one of those who prays. It's looking pretty bad. -
I hope you're all safe there. by
on 2013-11-13 03:22:00 UTC
Link to this
Especially from... that. I just... I've never seen such a powerful windstorm in all my life. I hope you guys are okay!
-
A Prayer by
on 2013-11-13 02:01:00 UTC
Link to this
Dear Lord
Be with those who have been affected by the typhoon in the Phillipines. Be there for those who have lost others, close family and dear friends and comfort those who do not know if those close to them are still alive.
Help those who are working to find others and be with them as each person is found. Be with those who are already out in the Phillipines giving aid and helping where they can, may you give them the strength to carry on even when the only emotions surrounding them are despair and unhappiness.
May the government make the right decisions in these coming days to support their people in the ways that they can.
In your name
Amen -
To anyone who wishes to help: by
on 2013-11-13 01:23:00 UTC
Link to this
This Buzzfeed article includes five charitable causes to donate to; while I usually think Buzzfeed kinda sucks, in this case it's really important.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mackenziekruvant/ways-to-help-after-super-typhoon-haiyan -
All my wishes to you. I hope you're safe. Please be safe. by
on 2013-11-13 01:00:00 UTC
Link to this
Elbereth protect you.
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May the Light of the Emperor shine on the Phillippines. (nm) by
on 2013-11-13 00:43:00 UTC
Link to this
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May the stars of Elbereth shine on you, Philippinos. (nm) by
on 2013-11-13 00:12:00 UTC
Link to this
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Perhaps links to charity will be useful here. by
on 2013-11-12 22:57:00 UTC
Link to this
http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.6150549/
I am broke by now. So all the best for Philippines. By the way, I am at Sabah, south from Philippines. We aren't affected harshly, but we do experience heavy rains. -
May all PPCers and their families be safe (nm) by
on 2013-11-12 20:56:00 UTC
Link to this
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*Seconding this; hoping you are safe and well* (nm) by
on 2013-11-12 19:15:00 UTC
Link to this
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Possible Badfic? by
on 2013-11-13 22:11:00 UTC
Link to this
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8888516/1/Son-of-Chaos-Book-One
So, where to start? Percy's non-canon brother (Poseidon's side), Unmentioned plot point where said brother somehow becomes most popular person at Camp Half-Blood, or even Percy being reborn as a son of Chaos (Replacement Sue?). The list seems long enough to me but not sure if this is bad enough to be sporked or merely placed in the 'Mediocre category'. Also, as said in the title it's only Book One and from the look of things the authors going to try and do all 5 books from the original series.
On the plus side low amount of Mini's should be expected as the author's got the Gods names down to a T.
Storme Hawk -
-Stops lurking for a moment to give her 2 cents- by
on 2013-11-14 00:19:00 UTC
Link to this
> "Unmentioned plot point where said brother somehow becomes most popular person at Camp Half-Blood"
That sentence right there triggers my Sue-dar.
Even if Mark's NOT a sue, the general plot setup is kinda dumb.
I'm also pretty sure Percy's Possessed.
-
A fic. by
on 2013-11-14 09:34:00 UTC
Link to this
First non-introduction thread. You won't turn me to bacon and feed me to the minis for this, right?
Also, I don't know how to make links, so here's the url:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6781336/1/FateStay-Night-Ultimate-Master
It's a Ben 10 and Fate/stay night crossover. It's neither mindblowing or mind-meltingly awful, but I personally think it's a nice fic.
Warning: There's a liberal sprinkling of spelling and grammar errors here and there, and first chapter may trip your badfic radars due to the infodump and amounts of descriptions used. (That's just clumsy writing on the author's part, but he gets better.)
Please don't feed me to the minis. -
Hmm...it doesn't seem too bad... by
on 2013-11-14 17:34:00 UTC
Link to this
You can put it on on your Rec List later on if you make one. Personally I wouldn't, 'cause I'm an arrogant nitpicker and I'll put the best of the best (so far not found a single one) on my List.
Oh, and Beekeeper? Next time, post the fic on the badfic thread already created below. The Board only allows 25 most recent threads to be shown on its front page. We Boarders try to save as much space as possible.
~Autumn -
Sorry about the doublepost by
on 2013-11-15 02:39:00 UTC
Link to this
Hm. On re-reading the fic, I realized my own standards aren't as high as they used to be. I suppose it has something to do with being too nice and forgiving towards spelling/grammar errors as long as my curiosity is piqued. I take back what I said about the minis. If you have a transmogrifier, feel free to turn me to bacon.
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Oh, no no no no no. by
on 2013-11-15 10:10:00 UTC
Link to this
No one's gonna commit cannibalism because of a small mistake! Plus, minis won't like the taste of beekeeper bacon, explained by 99. Everyone has gone through being That Clueless Newbie! So don't feel too bad. I remember making blunders when I first joined. And I'm fairly new too, having joined 3 and a half months ago.
~Autumn -
Ah, sorry about that.(nm) (nm) by
on 2013-11-15 02:10:00 UTC
Link to this
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The minis say beekeepers taste bad. Too prickly. (nm) by
on 2013-11-14 09:39:00 UTC
Link to this
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Um, hi. I guess I'm new? by
on 2013-11-14 17:16:00 UTC
Link to this
My name is Sana, but y'all can call me Clockwork or Clock from my username if you want. In real life, I am a British psychology graduate of questionable gender with too much time on hir hands. I found the PPC originally while on a trip through TV Tropes, but never bothered introducing myself and sort of forgot after a while. Then recently I rediscovered it via a friend of mine from tumblr (she goes by Laburnum around these parts, I believe).
As far as fandoms go, you will see me in a lot of different places due to my ever-changing interests and limited attention span, however a few more prominent ones include Homestuck, Berserk, That Guy With The Glasses/Channel Awesome (any other Secret Treehouse members here? just curious. If so, hi!), and Fandomstuck. You'll also see me hanging around the edges of any fandom about personifying non-human things, such as Hetalia or the OS-tans or a lot of other things I'm not going to list for the sake of not talking y'all to death any more than I already am.
Ahh, I've probably rambled on enough. Hello, everyone! -
Questionable, or you just don't want to tell? by
on 2013-11-18 16:52:00 UTC
Link to this
Would you care to elaborate? You've piqued my interest.
Personal issues aside, welcome to the PPC! I see that you've answered two of the usual questions (how'd you stumble across the PPC; what are your fandoms), but you've left one unanswered, namely: Have you read the Constitution and the Original Series?
That aside, your newbie gift!
*rummages through bag of holding*
Here, have an ! This Pokemon may look generic, but there's more to it than meets the eye. -
Blasted HTML errors by
on 2013-11-18 16:53:00 UTC
Link to this
That tail end is supposed to read:
Here, have an Eevee! This Pokemon may look generic, but there's more to it than meets the eye. -
Hello! by
on 2013-11-15 19:24:00 UTC
Link to this
Have a Schrodinger's cake. It's a lie and not at the same time.
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Re: Hello! by
on 2013-11-15 20:01:00 UTC
Link to this
That sounds absolutley delicious, albeit existentially troubling.
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Re: Um, hi. I guess I'm new? by
on 2013-11-15 15:07:00 UTC
Link to this
Hi, have some fudge!
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Welcome! by
on 2013-11-15 02:19:00 UTC
Link to this
Have a bunch of virtual cornflowers and a jar of urple honey. Welcome to the insanity.
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*waves* by
on 2013-11-14 23:16:00 UTC
Link to this
Greetings and welcome!
I hereby give to you a lined Infinite Notebook, featuring urple covers and wilver binding. Do be careful with your eyes.
-Aila -
Welcome Battle-Brother! by
on 2013-11-14 21:29:00 UTC
Link to this
Lots of newbies bolstering our ranks lately! I am 99Hedgehog but call me 99. Have a Necron Hyperphase Sword!
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hyperphase_Sword#.UoVCHDIaySM
The Emperor Protects! -
Welcome a-Board! by
on 2013-11-14 17:43:00 UTC
Link to this
Have a bottle of Bleepolate milk. I'm addicted to the stuff, it's like cocaine...
Wait.
What?!
Ugh.
Moving on!
I'm not really familiar with any of your fandoms, except that I watch Nostalgia Critic (That Guy With The Glasses).
Don't worry about the length of your introductory posts; we had people who wrote an essay for theirs', and we like essays, yes we do, Precious...
~Autumn
PS, It's thethe influence of the One RingBleepolate that's making me high. Honest! -
Hello! by
on 2013-11-14 17:29:00 UTC
Link to this
Have some Swiss chocolate and some Bleepka.
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New Doctor Who 50th anniversary clip! by
on 2013-11-14 17:43:00 UTC
Link to this
Featuring possibly the most obscure Doctor of them all, this clip actually managed to bridge the gap between Classic Who and New Who.
Presenting: "The Night of the Doctor." (link to YouTube.) -
Who you calling obscure? (Spoilers) by
on 2013-11-14 19:51:00 UTC
Link to this
Eight is awesome!
Seriously, it was brilliant seeing him again (in, unless you count cameos in Human Nature, The Next Doctor, The Eleventh Hour, and The Name of the Doctor, only his second on-screen appearance!). He was fantastic, and the plot of the minisode was good too. I liked the way they put an entire backstory into the brief exchange at the beginning.
That said, the decision felt a little quick. I'm not sure why - I'll have to watch it again to think about it.
hS -
A spoilery thought by
on 2013-11-15 04:55:00 UTC
Link to this
Perhaps 'cause the old lady told him he only had four minutes to decide? ;)
I do wonder what John Hurt's character implies about the order of the Doctors and all, though. Isn't he technically 9? I suppose they'll come up with a reason he doesn't count, but still... -
Oh, yeah, forgot about that. by
on 2013-11-15 06:56:00 UTC
Link to this
I think it needed a bit more obvious time pressure, really - she didn't mention that, nor did he start doing the 'cough cough I am totes dying now guyz' thing. So it slipped my mind.
Oh, and two words:
Time
Lock
hS -
She says it right at the start. by
on 2013-11-15 06:57:00 UTC
Link to this
Something like "I brought you back but you only have four minutes until you're dead again" and Eight was looking all messed up.
(Also, not sure why crashing to the ground would've killed him dead with no regeneration. Guy's regenned from a Dalek shot, a fall shouldn't be stopping him turning into Nine. Ah well.) -
I don't think he would have been perma-dead from the fall. by
on 2013-11-17 04:16:00 UTC
Link to this
It seemed that, while the Doctor would regenerate regardless, the Sisterhood gave him their Elixir so that he would transform into a specific form and personality to fit the task ahead of him. They seemed to predict what he would request, too, since the lead Sister had a specific Elixir prepared for "warrior Time Lord" before the Doctor even crashed.
Eight wasn't the sort of person who would willingly use the Moment, the as-of-now ill-defined superweapon that ended the Time War by wiping out Gallifrey and the Dalek fleets around it, as well as creating permanent scars in the timestream, and a random regeneration might have ended up with someone like Five, who would be even less likely to take that sort of drastic action. There needed to be a Doctor who would do what was necessary to preserve what little was left of the universe's sanity, no matter how many lives had to be lost, and if the new mind was unable to follow through, the Time War would probably rage indefinitely.
When you consider the Doctor's core personality traits, a mind like that would have been almost impossible for him to create through random regeneration alone, especially when the new body was still getting accustomed to it. -
'The fall'? by
on 2013-11-17 21:22:00 UTC
Link to this
That's actually the least believable part about the whole minisode for me - that was a spaceship moving at orbital, or even interplanetary, speeds. Even assuming it was heatproofed to survive what seemed to be an unpowered descent into atmosphere, it would still have been moving at multiple hundreds of meters per second when it hit the ground.
Dead? He should have been vaporised.
Conclusion: if you have to be in a crashing spaceship, make sure it was made by whoever built that one!
hS -
Some thoughts on that 'fall'. by
on 2013-11-17 23:01:00 UTC
Link to this
From the footage after the crash, the craft did get pretty wrecked up - the Doctor appeared to be lying amid debris with the sky above him. The hull had essentially ceased to exist in any recognisable form.
However, the vessel was referred to as a 'gunship', which suggests that it is military in nature. It's not unreasonable to assume that it would have had a lot of armour, and structural redundancy - it may have even had automated emergency systems designed to help out in a crash landing, something like a Star Wars repulsorlift could be used to cushion the impact, but might only kick in at the last second. OK, the sudden deccleration of such a system could do some fairly horrific things to any crew left onboard - but it's not going to be worse than hitting a planet at terminal velocity.
As for the crash itself, the final trajectory appeared to be a straight line. Yeah it was at quite a steep angle, but the craft wasn't plummeting, and it wasn't rolling or spiralling either - that implies that it came down under at least partial control. I don't think it was an unpowered descent. If it did have some kind of emergency landing system fitted, then those two things combined might have been enough to stop it from turning into a relativistic kill vehicle - which seems to be the sort of thing you were expecting from that 'vaporised' comment.
In conclusion, if you do have to be in a crashing spaceship, then being in one designed/built by whoever did that one is not a bad idea. Also, try and sit near the Black Box - after all, if that's the only bit of the craft they expect to recover, that sounds like a pretty good spot to be in :)
And I just have to say that I really like the Doctor's logic about why they should move to the back of the ship - I thought that was a very nice line. -
Some facts. by
on 2013-11-17 23:50:00 UTC
Link to this
During the initial approach sequence, we see two shots of the gunship approaching the planet. There's about six seconds between them, with no indication that we've jumped in time. In those six seconds, the planet's apparent size roughly doubles. That means the distance to the planet has halved. Since the episode goes on longer than another six seconds, either we did jump a bit, or the ship slows down somehow.
But... I really don't think it's enough. That final crash trajectory? That's really fast. It takes less than a second to go from 'dot on the screen' to impact. Given that the-- actually, wait.
The ship was trailing smoke in space. The only way for it to be doing that is for it to be accelerating on the way down - otherwise the smoke would be moving at the same velocity as the ship, and would just jet outwards. The engines were still working - and without being able to reference the dialogue, I'm betting they were jammed on. That ship hit atmo - and hit the ground - under significant thrust. The explosion when it hit expands to at least three or four times the size of the ship itself - and is big enough to light up the faces of the Sisterhood at what seems to be a fairly large distance. There are multiple bursts of light - at least three major fireballs in the space of two seconds. We then cut to a pan through the ship, which has been torn apart. There are broken ribs everywhere. That impact was not survivable.
My guess? The Doctor was in the TARDIS when the impact came, trying to do something clever (put the gunship on tow?). He was thrown out of the doors, much like Eleven had to be in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. That means it's the TARDIS' dampers, buffers and shields which protected him from the impact, not the gunship's.
And yet, he was still genuinely dead - at least according to the clearly unreliable Sisterhood. To kill someone through TARDIS shielding - which has been shown to fall from orbit with little more than a bump before - that must have been one heck of a crash.
Given the former Frankenstein-flavoured shenanigans on Karn, I'm going to guess that Cass wasn't just dead - she was a complete ruin. Only their experience with Morbius - and the technology which resurrected him - allowed the Sisterhood to piece her back together for the Doctor to look at. Whether they needed that technology to bring the Doctor back to life, or whether their Elixir sufficed, is an open question.
hS -
Standard sci-fi suspension of disbelief covers that for me. by
on 2013-11-17 22:51:00 UTC
Link to this
After all, what's the easiest way to introduce an alien presence in sci-fi stories without said presence providing an immediate threat? Send a spaceship hurtling through the atmosphere, and crash it into the planet. Normally, there's at least one person who stays alive from it, regardless of how much red goo the impact should have turned them into, though they do occasionally die a few minutes after someone finds the crash site following the low muttering of something cryptic or the handing off of some sort of space relic.
The Doctor, a titular character, getting through a spaceship crash from planetary orbit in one piece? Seems basically like a given. He was even dead for a few minutes, so there's a bit of a concession to the more probable option there. -
Hm, makes sense. by
on 2013-11-17 05:34:00 UTC
Link to this
It looks like we're going to be seeing bits of the TW then. What happened to "We won't show the Time War because all the special effects in the world wouldn't do it justice"?
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Re: A spoilery thought by
on 2013-11-15 06:38:00 UTC
Link to this
Possible spoilers if you haven't watched The Brain of Morbius and Mawdryn Undead.
The clip involved a lot of references to The Brain or Morbius (Fourth Doctor), such as the Sisterhood of Karn. The Brain of Morbius implied that the Doctor's incarnation at that time wasn't his fourth, but could also be taken to possibly be previous incarnations of Morbius (who was also a Time Lord). The elixir of life that the Sisterhood guard also seems to circumvent any rules regarding regenration (like the 12 regeneration rule referenced in Mawdryn Undead- but this serial has a lot of continuity errors...) and it seems implied that by taking the elixir, the Doctor has more than 12 regenerations. Moffat enjoys his references to Classic!Who, so I am guessing that he is taking the implication that the Doctor has had many more than 11 incarnations as canon. The frequent references to episodes that are more than 30 years old must be frustrating to newer viewers because they add so much more to the new material. :/
The War Doctor probably doesn't count as "The Doctor" because he isn't really the Doctor in a sense (if you consider the Doctor as a description of what he stands for and not just a name). The Doctor wanted to become a warrior, so he became pretty much an entirely different person in the sense that he isn't about being a force of good in the universe any more (until he starts calling himself the Doctor again). I wouldn't consider the War Doctor to be 9 because he isn't the Doctor. If you've seen The Unearthly Child, you know that One was a terrible person by human standards until the end of that serial. I think it's fair to consider One the first Doctor even if he has had previous incarnations of a different name because his goal wasn't to be a force of good until that point.
I apologize for my ramblings, but the clip has given me so many feels. XD I'm also a bit annoyed that Paul McGann doesn't have a role in the actual 50th anniversary episode. I would love to see more of him on screen as the Doctor instead of just listening to audio plays.
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Dramatic reveals lost. by
on 2013-11-15 09:12:00 UTC
Link to this
Let me say at the outset that I have no problem with characters in stories having things dramatically revealed to them that we, the audience, already know about. Heck, one of my favourite lines from Doctor Who is a perfect example of this:
"My home planet is far away and long since gone. But its name lives on: Gallifrey."
Yeah, yeah, we knew that decades ago - but it's still awesomely played.
No, what I'm thinking about in this post are dramatic reveals - the sort which reveal something shocking to the audience - which are lost, either through adaptation or prequels. I have a couple of examples:
-Dernhelm. The sequence where Dernhelm, knight of Rohan, reveals himself to be Eowyn in disguise - and then kills the Witch-King - is one of my favourites in the book. Dernhelm is a minor character up to this point - he looks like nothing more than a deus ex machina to get Merry to the battle - but that reveal is amazing. In the movie, though? We know it's Eowyn in disguise as soon as we see 'him' - partly because they gave her a completely non-concealing helmet, and partly because Merry immediately calls her 'my lady'. There's no reveal to us, and I miss it. It's a cool scene.
-Also from LotR: finding out what happened to Frodo. For those of you who've only seen the films, the book is structured like this:
--End of The Two Towers, after Shelob's lair: 'Frodo was alive, but taken by the enemy'.
--The entire Aragorn-etc portion of RotK, up to and including the meeting with the Mouth of Sauron at the Black Gates. The Mouth shows them Frodo's mithril shirt and Sam's sword, and we - the readers - have no idea what's happened. We know Sauron doesn't have the Ring (we saw Sam take it), but we have to assume Frodo is still a prisoner.
--A several-day timeslip to Sam rescuing Frodo, way before the shirt ever reached Barad-dur.
This is a brilliant reveal - one given to us, not to the characters. Unfortunately, the structure of the films prevents it from happening - the scene at the Black Gates is intercut with the climb up Mount Doom. This one I understand, but it's still a shame (and as I recall, Tolkien wanted the structure kept...)
-Finally, perhaps the most famous reveal of all: Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father (see, I can talk about things other than LotR). This is completely and utterly spoiled by the prequel trilogy. They didn't even try to keep it a secret, so if you watch the films in order, it's not a surprise in the slightest.
It's possible that they tried to put in a second big reveal for if you do watch them in order: that Palpatine is evil. I don't know, because, obviously, I knew it all along. I may have to go back and watch the prequel trilogy and pretend I don't know that Palpatine is Sidious. Maybe it's a real shock if you do that? But I don't know.
Obviously these are only a couple of examples. I'm sure you can think of more. Or maybe you think I'm silly for minding this loss at all?
hS -
The Sixth Sense. by
on 2013-11-17 01:30:00 UTC
Link to this
One of the BEST. REVEALS. EVER. It's so good, I won't even speak of it here, in case anyone reading this post hasn't seen the movie.
But yes, that kind of reveal is awesome. :) -
I think Planet of the Apes probably counts by
on 2013-11-16 16:21:00 UTC
Link to this
It's been a while since I've seen the film, but from what I remember, the ending had quite a twist - thanks to a certain iconic landmark. The prequel from a few years back, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, gives that away completely.
The identity of Luke's father was the first thing I thought of, halfway through reading your post and before I'd seen that you'd used that example yourself. As it happens, I recently read a webcomic bit that featured a character who has never seen Star Wars, and more importantly knows nothing about it, and a couple of the other characters discussed what order she should watch the films in, for that very reason.
Unsurprisingly, Star Wars nerds, uh... sorry, I mean fans, have already given this some thought and have suggested a couple of alternative viewing orders. The proposed 'machete order' (IV, V, II, III, VI) seems to make a lot of sense, and the guy argues his case very well. -
Isn't the Darth Vader example... by
on 2013-11-16 02:38:00 UTC
Link to this
...kind of a case of "It Was His Sled"? I don't think that it was just the prequel trilogy that spoiled it, since it became such an iconic plot twist after it was revealed.
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Darwin Awards by
on 2013-11-16 02:49:00 UTC
Link to this
Here's a story that will make you facepalm.
http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1996-02.html
Who would be so stupid as to ignore the "Keep Out Of Cages" signs? -
A drunk person by
on 2013-11-16 03:07:00 UTC
Link to this
Obviously, he was drunk, and he couldn't read it.
Still, stupid stupid stupid. -
RE: A drunk person by
on 2013-11-16 03:31:00 UTC
Link to this
The guys in the story were devotees of the Hindu goddess Durga. But I agree with you on that one. These guys had to be under the influence of something.
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Religious or not, wow that's stupid by
on 2013-11-18 20:33:00 UTC
Link to this
You would think that anyone whose religion held a tiger as a sacred or symbolic animal would also celebrate the tiger's fierceness, strength, hunting ability, etc. Which, in fact, Hinduism does (as far as I know, from my legendary knowledge gained via Wikipedia). There's nothing about revering a tiger that should make you so stupid as to climb into the enclosure of a tiger which doesn't know you and could very well mistake you for an antelope. If you wanted to leave flowers for a tiger, you could hang them near the tiger's enclosure, or give them to the keepers. At the very worst you might toss them into the tiger's enclosure, though that would be rude and let's hope the flowers aren't poisonous.
No... religion's not to blame here. As a Christian, I may marvel at the stupidity of people who get drunk and play with rattlesnakes; as a Hindu I would think it just as stupid to get drunk and climb into a tiger cage. -
Those teeth are sharp! by
on 2013-11-18 20:42:00 UTC
Link to this
Replying to myself to add this Youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0RjcUdqKAs
This is a tiger at Big Cat Rescue playing with a watermelon. They apparently give the big cats things like watermelons and pumpkins to play with. Watch the tiger demolish that melon and tell me those teeth aren't scary!
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BY THE NINE AND THE VALAR AND ERU AND THE EMPEROR! by
on 2013-11-16 06:58:00 UTC
Link to this
http://www.quotev.com/story/4019056/The-Minecraft-Wars/
NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
CAN'T ANYONE WRITE A GOOD STORY THESE DAYS!? SURRENDER YOUR BLEEPKA UNTO ME. I REQUIRE IT.
The Emperor apparently doesn't Protect... -
What? by
on 2013-11-22 04:56:00 UTC
Link to this
If she's in Minecraft, why are BajanCanadian and assorted others there as Youtubers? I could see sort of AU Minecraft versions, but no, apparently these are the real thing. Why does she not notice she's blocky? I think having your body stretched like that might be a mite noticeable, after all. Not to mention terminal. Also, why must all these Suethors think up awful reasons for their Sue to go somewhere? Does anyone know?
As a fan of Team Crafted, this fic makes me very angry. Does anyone want to kill it? Could always hire someone from the Assassins' Guild.
Oh, yeah...*gives you some Bleepolate* -
*upchucks* by
on 2013-11-19 17:32:00 UTC
Link to this
Not another sucked into a video game fic!
(At least they have something of a handle on spelling... I don't know if that's a blessing or not.)
It's actually worse. SkyDoesMinecraft is a youtuber, and so is TheBajanCanadian, so we've got real person fic!
*Passes Bleepka.* -
I don't even.... by
on 2013-11-19 15:47:00 UTC
Link to this
...I don't even PLAY Minecraft and I'm offended. (I do know a fair bit about it though). Just...what in all hells is this?
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WHAT. by
on 2013-11-17 01:34:00 UTC
Link to this
As a lover of Minecraft, I hereby demand that a spork be thrust through the brain of this fic ASAP.
Any who disagree will be violently argued with. D:
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OTT much? by
on 2013-11-16 14:09:00 UTC
Link to this
OK, so I've skimmed it and it certainly doesn't look good, but it's nowhere around the level of *shudder* 'My Immortal' or the other legendary badfics, if it was then yeah I'd probably see your reaction as justified, but it isn't (Also, way too many caps anyway, calm it down a bit)
Also, what's wrong with my badfic post a couple of posts down?
Finally (and I swear this is final) at least give us a description of the badfic with the original post, even if it is a standard Mary Sue fic in Minecraft. Just gives people a heads-up before they look at it (for example I can't stand bad slash so if anyone links it on here I look away quickly).
Storme Hawk
the man who gives his Bleepka to no man/woman/alien/hedgehog or any other type of sentient or non-sentient life. -
Forget it, Jake, it's badfic town. by
on 2013-11-16 10:26:00 UTC
Link to this
(Also, you might want to ease up on the capslock. :P )
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Ow! Ow! Ow! by
on 2013-11-16 09:13:00 UTC
Link to this
My ears...
You might want to calm down there, 99. It's the Circle, after all. *pats 99 sympathetically*
There's higher chance of Feänor giving up the Silmarils than that place producing a goodfic.
...Uh, I take back that bit about Feänor.
~Autumn -
I know I'm just a newbie, but... what. the. what. by
on 2013-11-16 07:09:00 UTC
Link to this
99, I don't think a Bleepka would be enough for this.
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We'll have to take extreme measures. Namely neuralyzation. (nm) by
on 2013-11-16 07:35:00 UTC
Link to this
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*flash* Much better. (nm) by
on 2013-11-16 07:47:00 UTC
Link to this
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Um, are we being ripped off? I think we're being ripped off. by
on 2013-11-16 16:18:00 UTC
Link to this
http://fanfictioncanonassistry.wikia.com/wiki/FCA_Wiki
A fair bit of this sounds an awful lot like us. The very structure of the wiki's navbar looks an awful lot like ours. There's also the fact that I got there by Googling "crystace" and noticed that the top two hits were PPC Wiki and this, with the text being darn near identical.
Oh, and they have consoles, apparently. These sound an awful, awful lot like PPC consoles to me. Compare especially the "Other Information" and "Miscellaneous" sections.
Compare also their SEP field page and our SEP field page.
Compare also their FAQ: For Rookies and our FAQ: For Newbies. The section order may be different, but a lot of that looks very familiar.
I'm pretty sure I recognize the main admin's name, too: AelinTheAmazing.
I'm... somewhat inclined to be using strong language at this point, so I'll stop. Just... what is this? {=
~Neshomeh -
On another (and somewhat exasperated) note: by
on 2013-11-25 01:55:00 UTC
Link to this
Is it possible for someone to do a mission or sporking of that 'Mission #1'? I was doing fine, except for the plagiarism, until they identified Galadriel as both the Lady of the Golden Wood--which is quite accurate--and as Queen of Lothlórien, which very much is not. Mind you, this is their Character Analysis Device's identification, not someone mistakenly saying it. So. Possible?
I suppose it doesn't actually fall under PPC jurisdiction for missions, but it's pretty galling to find not only huge amounts of plagiarism partially masked by adaptation, but also inaccurate details purporting to be Tolkien's canon. I just...I thought perhaps I should bring up that it's not just plagiarism, it's also inaccuracy; and while that's not something that Wikia needs to worry about, it's something that I, for one, find extremely annoying. Kind of the icing on the cake, really.
(Also, um, that's not just Tolkien and the Original Series being mangled/ripped off. It's also the Suethor's story--dialogue and details have been changed. For example, Galadriel? She's supposed to be Arwen. Galadriel didn't appear in Rambling Band, at least not that I remember. Furthermore, this is misrepresenting the Suefic as worse than it actually is, in this case by adding the charge of Galadriel being in Rivendell without explanation. At least Arwen was in the right place, if not in character or in her rightful position.)
Back to reading sources for my essay now. I just...that needed to be shared. It really did.
Thanks for listening.
~DF -
Yeah. by
on 2013-11-25 04:19:00 UTC
Link to this
And I didn't remember the original Suefic being so overblown on its own Sue-ness too. I never thought I'll say this, but AelinTheAmazing made the Suefic so Sue-ish that the Suefic became an unrealistic one.
I would love to see a sporking of "Mission #1", 'cause it'll be all a little Inception-y. ;)
~Autumn -
Ooh, Inception-y. I like it. by
on 2013-11-25 04:34:00 UTC
Link to this
I mean, I'm still fairly sure it's not actually PPC jurisdiction (except possibly during the Badfic Game), but...it hurts. A lot. Maybe it could just be MSTed, preferably using PPC agents? We could even have it as a group thing.
I don't even know. I just...this needs some form of response. We do have a Department of Plagiarism, although I don't know if it has any recorded missions or what its methods consist of (and, er, this is plagiarism of a Suefic and a PPC mission report, among other things, which is why I have no idea whether this is really even within our jurisdiction). It's difficult to know if PPC agents could even take this on, unless they were the self-aware, fourth-wall-breaking sort (of which there are at least several, possibly more than I realize). However, in the context of an MST...I do think it could work. It honestly seems (to me, at least) to be a rather appropriate response: we are the PPC, and we critique things like this. Admittedly, we don't normally deal with such huge cases of plagiarism (although smaller ones have definitely cropped up before), but I think an analysis/critique of this, PPC-style (albeit probably in MST format, which does have a history here as well), might actually be rather appropriate.
Like I've been saying--just a thought. But it might be good to point out exactly what is wrong with doing this, in the style that (or a similar one to) the PPC normally employs.
(Can you tell I've been reading academic articles for the past who-knows-how-many hours? No? Didn't think so :))
~DF -
MST sounds right to me. by
on 2013-11-25 10:32:00 UTC
Link to this
A mission might appear as too revengeish for the community we actually are. A light-toned MST should work better.
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I think you just summed up my reasoning in two sentences. :) by
on 2013-11-25 12:11:00 UTC
Link to this
Congratulations :D
But yeah. I mean, this really needs some sort of response, especially considering that we, well, critique bad writing and so on (it's early, shush), but an actual mission does seem rather...mean? Rude? Not sure. Probably more violent of a response than necessary. But perhaps there could be some sort of group MSTing of it.
...remind me to stop repeating myself, please, this is getting ridiculous.
~DF -
Personally, I don't think it's worth it. by
on 2013-11-25 13:30:00 UTC
Link to this
My reasoning is this: You think a mission would be too harsh; I think an MST would be more-so.
I worry that both of those responses are going to venture, fairly quickly, into personal attack and unpleasantness. It would be easy to justify in a mission ("They were really angry at what they saw!") and characters in an MST, being further removed from the action of the story, are closer to the author of the story.
It doesn't help that what makes this story bad is that someone took it. How do you deal with that reality in your MST without dealing with the author?
No, I just don't think would turn out well at all.
-Phobos -
I suppose that's another issue, yes. by
on 2013-11-26 02:26:00 UTC
Link to this
I had hoped it would be possible to rein in harsh responses--keep it light, while also analyzing and explaining, as calmly as possible, why the choices made were bad ones--but you're right in saying it would be difficult to do. I think I'm being influenced somewhat by the MSTs I've been reading on das_sporking, although those don't actually tend to stay that calm...you may have a point about the MST, actually.
However, we do seem to have a Department of Plagiarism, albeit one that is completely without missions. I'm guessing this is an older department, but I can't be sure. On the other hand, even taking this into account, you're right about the difficulty in avoiding dealing with the author...which is why I suggested an MST. I suppose I failed to consider that a PPC-connected MST would also be unable to address the author, even politely.
On the other hand, I think there does need to be some sort of polite, mature response to this. (Perhaps we could send Vulcans to deal with it?) My suggestion would be to possibly write something, with frequent breaks to cool down, and then have a large number of people beta it (probably along the way as well) to keep it from becoming, as you said, full of personal attack and unpleasantness. Because there definitely needs to be some sort of response, or at least that's the way it seems to me; but it definitely needs to be mature, as polite as possible, and not an attack.
If people could keep weighing in, that would be great. This just really seems to me to be something we should at least discuss.
~DF -
I'm a'pondering. by
on 2013-11-26 09:35:00 UTC
Link to this
Taking into account the various things that've been said, is the story bad enough in its own right for the PPC (specifically the Department of Plagiarism) to take it on?
I'm thinking there are two kinds of charges available:
-First, plagiarism charges. That includes the general 'this is all plagiarised' - which need only be mentioned once - but also specific instances where it's plagiarised and made worse. Itemising why 'I prefer the original' is appropriate, I think, and can be done without commenting on the plagiarist directly.
-Secondly, general bad and unrealistic writing. You've noted a few issues, and I'm sure there are more. But are there enough?
Let's find out! Here's a copy of the story in question; comments should be enabled for everyone, though the actual text shouldn't be editable. I'm going to go through and comment up things that could be charges - come join in if you like, and we'll see if it's actually something that could take a mission.
Obviously, the same rules apply there as anywhere else in PPC-space - no flaming, or anything like it, plzkthnx.
hS -
Pondering complete. by
on 2013-11-26 11:00:00 UTC
Link to this
I have a near-solid wall of comments down the site of the thing, and that's just from an hour's looking. I've also discovered that they plagiarised TOS Mission 4, as well, in at least two places. Including this... really disturbing scene:
Jason considered that. “So, if we dropped her in a lake and she drowned, she’d still look nice on my wall?”
“Yeah, I guess,” Harriet replied, then realized something. “Hey, wait. Who says you get to put her on your wall?”
Jason sighed, knowing that once Harriet got her teeth into something she was unlikely to let it go. “You can have her head, I’ll take the rest of her. Deal?”
“Her head and a smoothie.”
You may recognise this as a condensed version of J&A's argument with Lux about the blue unicorn she had just skinned. Lux got the head and an invisible scrunchie.
Key difference? That was an animal. This is a humanoid woman. All issues of plagiarism aside? These characters are sick.
hS -
True. by
on 2013-11-26 17:32:00 UTC
Link to this
You know what else? Harriet is the name of one of ACMSES' founding characters. I know this from reading half of one of their stories, which I did because this Booklight thing sounded interesting. I get the feeling there's a lot of ACMSES plagiarism that we're not necessarily catching.
Also, I'm fairly sure the Sue's name gained about ten extra names in between her first introduction and the charging towards the end. Just saying.
~DF -
Conclusions (Phobos? Herr Wozzeck? Comments?) by
on 2013-11-27 11:15:00 UTC
Link to this
The mad comment-fest makes it clear that there are definitely a whole heap of things to comment on. However, yes, a lot of them are to do with the plagiarism - either that something /is/ plagiarised, or that it's been badly done so.
That said, there are a bunch of things that aren't (directly) related to the plagiarism - like the fact that they're unable to keep track of whether they're in a tent, or the incredibly creepy serial-Sue-killer (thanks, Dawn) vibes they keep giving off.
I think there's enough there to make a mission. Specifically, I think a mission in which the agents blame the characters for things that are more accurately the authors' fault. Yes, that's sort of what the PPC does anyway (since Mary-Sues aren't prone to describing themselves out loud, for instance), but I suggest something a bit more so:
Treat Jason, Emma, and Harriet as the psychopaths they are. We've said a few times in the comments that they seem to basically be doing this for kicks - so take that premise. Entirely for their own sick entertainment, these three have turned themselves into parodies of PPC and ACMESES agents, written themselves a Suefic (partially based on 'Rambling Band', because they're a highly unoriginal lot), and gone into it. They're reusing jokes and actions from RB because they enjoyed reading the report (how they got it from HQ's network, I don't know) - so it's basically the same as agents repeating lines from Monty Python. Except that this lot are twisted sadists while doing so.
If JEH were obviously self-inserts, I'd be uncomfortable with this suggestion. But they're not. They're mashup plagiarism. So I don't see any problem with seconding someone to the Department of Plagiarism and sending them to deal with JEH as plagiarists. The way to avoid accidentally flaming Aelin and Addie is... not to acknowledge they exist.
At least, that's what I think. But I'd like to hear comments from the people who (quite rightly) pointed out that it might be a bad idea.
hS
PS: Note that I'm not actually claiming the right to do this mission. I might do so, but I'm pretty sure other people (Dawn?) mentioned it first, so priority goes to them. ~hS -
Well darn. by
on 2013-12-24 00:06:00 UTC
Link to this
Somehow in my "how would we tackle it" section I managed to completely miss that you'd already suggested how to treat the PPS in-universe. Oops!
...Actually, PPCers dealing with what are basically psychotic copycats outright making up Sues for them to slaughter would make an interesting story. -
I understand this is a month late and off the front page... by
on 2013-12-23 22:57:00 UTC
Link to this
...but while I see the reasons people would want to take it on, and like I said a bit downthread I'd be willing to help out, I still don't think we should make a mission of this, for a few reasons.
First off, this was a poor job done by some (no offence to our younger members) dumb kids who abandoned the idea a couple months after starting it up anyway. Not to mention Neshomeh got the wikis taken down, so not only do we no longer have a reference for their "canon" but they effectively don't exist. Us making a big mission out of their, well, mission (more on that later) gives the plagiarised, low-effort work more attention and legitimacy than it deserves, and frankly it would also come off as needlessly retaliatory, like yelling at somebody after they've already left the room. Why treat it as a canonical thing when we can just shunt it out of existence like the Badfic Land stuff? Plus, we've already dissected the one PPS story in that google document, I'm not sure how much more a mission would add from an out-of-continuity perspective.
Secondly, it opens a lot of meta weirdness that I think would make the story more trouble than it's worth. In-continuity, do we treat the PPS as a real organisation? A bunch of misguided "PPC fans"? Psychos who killed a fic then wrote a story about it plagiarising Jay and Acacia? Do we kill the agents tackling the fic? Destroy the entire PPS? Give them a very stern talking-to? Not to mention I don't think I've seen missions themselves being treated as a Word World before and I'm not sure how to approach that. Not to mention either it's in the same setting as the PPC or not - just how "real" is the PPS to be? I think it could get more convoluted than it's worth.
Again, sorry I'm mentioning this point so late, only just been catching up becauseI got busy with other stuff. -
Sorry, sorry! by
on 2013-11-29 02:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Man, this semester has been crazy busy...
Yeah, there could be enough material for a mission in there. This interpretation of events does require subtext to make sense, but it's subtext that's present in the fic itself that could work within the PPC verse. So it is missionable.
However, my comments were aimed more at the MST treatment of the story that Sergio suggested. As an MST, I don't feel there's enough material to work with. As a PPC mission, I definitely see your point about the material, but as an MST there just isn't enough. So... -
Apologies are not required. ;) by
on 2013-11-29 08:37:00 UTC
Link to this
I wasn't expecting either of you to have already commented - I was just putting your names up to be sure you knew that I was asking for your thoughts.
hS -
Apologies. Been busy with work and Thanksgiving prep.. by
on 2013-11-27 13:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Anyway, if people want to mission this, then I wouldn't stand in their way, even if I could. I think it was enough for me to plant the red flag and make people aware of the potential pitfalls ahead. It did lead to people taking an in-depth look at what a mission in this story could cover, after all.
That said, I am a always a fan of fleshing out departments that have been left on the sidelines. So, for me, it would be nice to see the DoP in a story.
To sum up: I still don't personally think it is worth it, but if other people think it is, then have at it.
-Phobos -
A quick reply by
on 2013-11-27 12:44:00 UTC
Link to this
(First of all, it's kind of awesome that more and more people are nicknaming me 'Dawn'. But that's an aside.)
Second, I have to catch a bus soon (morning class), so this probably won't cover everything I want to say. In fact, it definitely won't.
That said, my two cents are that this could potentially be done as a group mission? I know I want to be involved, but I also know I'd never finish it on my own. Also, this is, and has been from the beginning, a community affair. There shouldn't be an overwhelmingly large number of agents involved, at least not in the actual mission part, but even aside from cameos and so on, many betas could work...
Basically: my vote is for a group mission (preferably with writing taking off more towards mid-December, post-exams, but perhaps that's just me.) And now I really need to go catch a bus. Ta!
~DF -
I have reservations, but I'd be willing to help. (nm) by
on 2013-12-23 22:04:00 UTC
Link to this
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Did someone say cameos? by
on 2013-11-27 17:41:00 UTC
Link to this
Ever since I read this, I really took the idea of cameos to heart, since I kinda agree with what July wrote there. That's why I am offering my agents for cameos whenever I can. So Des and either Anebrin (if the mission is going to be set before February 2013 HST) or the Librarian (if it's going to be set any time after that) are available for cameos.
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Well... by
on 2013-11-25 17:06:00 UTC
Link to this
...speaking as someone who's dealt with the trivialization of very serious subjects within fanfiction in my snarkings with the Library, I tend to cut the bullshit at points that demand that I get more serious. While it is true that those times generally coincide with the fic doing something that truly pisses me off, I imagine you could address that topic seriously by indicating that you're not making a joke at any point.
That said, let's face it: the fact that its biggest sin was plagiarism doesn't justify an MST for me. For me to be able to do an MST and/or mission, there has to be something wrong with it beyond just one really bad thing. Granted, there are a couple things they do, but for me they're not big enough to take away from the main complaint of plagiarism. And hilariously enough, I can tell you why with something that's being done at the Library right now.
See, another contributor at the Library is currently snarking a Mass Effect fic which is actually an almost complete plagiarism of another Mass Effect fic that I snarked at the Library earlier. So really, a lot of my complaints on the fic that was plagiarized are complaints he's brought up in the snarking of the plagiarism (a fact that he's lampshaded a couple times, actually). So what justifies snarking that fic as well as the one I already snarked? Well, the plagiarizer did several things that justified it, but chief among them are two things:
1) the plagiarizer added enough casual sexism to make Rush Limbaugh seem feminist.
2) the plagiarizer also injected a few plot elements that were extremely stupid that were not airlifted in from the fic he plagiarized.
And both of those two complaints are bigger than the plagiarism complaint itself, to the point that the sexism has actually gotten us riled up more than the plagiarism itself.
So I don't know. It doesn't really seem like it's MSTable, though for different reasons than Phobos suggested... -
I totally agree with your reasoning. by
on 2013-11-25 17:36:00 UTC
Link to this
Also, can I just say that I read "MSTable" as "MS Table". I am imagining a coffee table that has a Windows tablet as its surface. Not the worst idea, but still not a very good one.
-Phobos -
I see. by
on 2013-11-25 19:08:00 UTC
Link to this
I now understand the points about an MST being a bad idea - those effectively make up the lack of actual fixing with a lot of snark.
A calm, no-characters-in-it commentary/compare-and-contrast would actually be the only way to do something like that, I guess, but as Wikia closed down both wikis, there is no reason to do anything else. -
Oh, wait, what? by
on 2013-11-26 02:28:00 UTC
Link to this
It's already been resolved?
That was fast.
Hm. Well, I did just post that long thing I wrote earlier...I don't know. Take it as you like. Funnily enough, it was the Tolkien mistake that was kind of the tipping point for me, although the rest was pretty bad as well...
~DF -
Okay, so here's what I've got for Wikia by
on 2013-11-24 01:52:00 UTC
Link to this
Some background information: The Protectors of the Plot Continuum was originally a series of stories by Jay and Acacia written mostly in 2002. A community sprang up around the series, and others began to write spin-offs of the series with Jay and Acacia's permission. Over a decade later, we're still going strong, with our main community hub being the PPC Posting Board (founded in 2003). Our wiki was founded in 2007 to give us a central point to collect information about our community and its works (we'd previously been relying on a series of LiveJournal entries, private webpages, and people's bookmarks).
The PPC has always been on friendly terms with Camilla Sandman, the author of "The Official Fanfiction University of Middle-earth," which has similarly grown a fanbase and many, many spinoffs, including "The Hogwarts Fanfiction Academy" by Meir Brin. Both Meir Brin and Camilla Sandman participated in the PPC community in the past, and several concepts that have since become iconic to the PPC originally come from OFUM or HFA with the full blessings of their creators.
The Anti-Cliché and Mary-Sue Elimination Society is a similar but thoroughly distinct group. We're not affiliated, though we've been in communication with their members in the past. I've included links to their wiki where I can for the sake of being thorough.
I've organized this list of copied pages by the name on the FCA and/or PPS wiki. Links to the plagiarized page(s) are first, then links to the original articles or other sources. I've included notes where I feel clarification may be helpful.
\* = original article
View the list in PasteBin, since it was too long to include here. The paste will expire in one week.
That should be thorough enough for anyone, but let me know if I've missed anything big.
~Neshomeh -
E-mail away. (nm) by
on 2013-11-25 00:53:00 UTC
Link to this
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And, just like that, our troubles are over! by
on 2013-11-25 17:40:00 UTC
Link to this
Here's what my Wikia contact said:
Thanks for the thorough research! I know that wasn't an easy process.
Given the inactivity of the wikis, the widespread nature of the attribution issues, and the clarity of the explanation you offered the Admins, I have gone ahead and closed both wikis.
So, yeah! I'm kinda blown away. I expected it to take longer, or be more difficult, I guess. But hey, that's the solution I wanted, so I say break out the party gear. {= )
And, incidentally, let's let this be a lesson to us to always properly attribute anything we put on our own wiki. Citing sources is important for lots of reasons! When it's other people's stuff, it's important to give credit, and when it's our own stuff, it's important so that other people know where the information came from and that it wasn't just made up on the fly. Yay attribution!
~Neshomeh -
Hurray! by
on 2013-11-26 22:00:00 UTC
Link to this
Three cheers for Neshomeh!
Three cheers for Ekyl!
Each of you can have an Aegislash in recognition of your defense of the hard work of the PPC. It is a bit sad that it had to get to this; Aelin could have been a good member of the PPC. But things had to be done...
Enough of the serious attitude! Let's party! -
*sails into the scene with a large Bleepolate cake* by
on 2013-11-26 13:21:00 UTC
Link to this
Congrats! I can now sleep in peace knowing that this issue of writing the email is now over, and done with.
~Autumn -
Congrats and thank you! by
on 2013-11-26 05:17:00 UTC
Link to this
A big thank you to Nesh and Ekyl and anyone else who worked on this!
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Yay! by
on 2013-11-26 03:24:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't know about you guys, but I think this calls for some Mahler!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj5D2hXwMG4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQFOgvF74k4 -
Handing out party hats (nm) by
on 2013-11-25 17:50:00 UTC
Link to this
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*throws confetti* *looks round for fellow Supernatural fans* by
on 2013-11-26 02:46:00 UTC
Link to this
That was very, very quick. Wow.
All to the good, I say :)
~DF -
*Supernatural-fan shows up* by
on 2013-11-26 19:12:00 UTC
Link to this
Hurray! I believe this calls for the angel Kalastiel! http://a-moosed.deviantart.com/art/Kalastiel-The-Angel-of-Party-155133701
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Seems so! *steals a balloon* Party time! (nm) by
on 2013-11-26 19:20:00 UTC
Link to this
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Seems extremely thorough to me. (nm) by
on 2013-11-24 22:59:00 UTC
Link to this
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*pokes DawnFire* by
on 2013-11-25 10:28:00 UTC
Link to this
I know that I told you that Blank Sprite could wait December... but it wasn't an invitation to actually do that, you know?
People then starts plagiarizing it before it even gets written! -
I'll see what I can do about getting to it this week. by
on 2013-11-25 12:07:00 UTC
Link to this
The problem is that, as a university student, I've had to actually do some work. I should be able to steal an hour or so this week, though--most things are for next week. (First exams as a uni student. Hurrah.)
~DF -
God luck with that. (nm) by
on 2013-11-25 18:59:00 UTC
Link to this
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Ack, misspelling. Good, not god. by
on 2013-11-25 19:03:00 UTC
Link to this
Though, a god luck would be a luck in godmode, and so an indefeatable luck. I wish you that.
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Sounds pretty useful, thanks! :) (nm) by
on 2013-11-26 02:29:00 UTC
Link to this
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That looks very comprehensive to me by
on 2013-11-24 10:25:00 UTC
Link to this
Nice spot on the 'Redwall Defence Guide' by the way - while the pages/info copied from our wiki was pretty straightforward to catch, I don't think I'd have picked up on that one.
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It looks good. by
on 2013-11-24 09:49:00 UTC
Link to this
A lot of stuff, with short but exaustive explanations. Well done, it should be more than enough to prove our case.
Even Phoenix Wright can't go OBJECTION! on it. -
Do the ACMSES folks know they've been plagiarized too? by
on 2013-11-24 02:35:00 UTC
Link to this
If not, we ought to let them know.
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I believe one of our newbies let them know. (nm) by
on 2013-11-24 02:45:00 UTC
Link to this
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Help, my brain is going to explode. by
on 2013-11-22 01:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Please take a look through this page: http://sect.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_Universe
I'm boggled, just boggled. Can you guys help me sort out what bits were taken from where? I mean, I could probably figure it out, but my brain hurts.
H E L P M E
~Neshomeh, starting a list now, because this is gonna take a while. -
Thanks for the help, guys! by
on 2013-11-23 15:21:00 UTC
Link to this
Sad as it is to say, I knew that stuff had to come from somewhere. Sigh.
~Neshomeh -
What?!?!?!? by
on 2013-11-23 00:05:00 UTC
Link to this
They...I...did...what...?
I'm so mad right now, it's messed with my punctuation.
They copy our concepts, our anyone-can-write-characters, our events. But this...this is our PPC history. The Reorganisation, the Blackout Incident, Shipverse, the Mirror Multiverse, the 2008 Mary Sue Invasion...the PPC members worked hard (while having fun at the same time, but still...) on these projects, on lots of lots of other things too, while they, they just copy and pasted a bunch of the PPC writers' efforts then replace the names. And then there was copying TOS. This is outrageous.
Plagiarism. I've never hate it so much.
~Autumn -
... Potato Protection Society? by
on 2013-11-22 09:32:00 UTC
Link to this
... it oddly reminds me of a joke I'm using in the first chapter of Blank Sprite. (Namely, giant sentient pottoes trying to keep Agents from doing their job)
And, as you may realize, it isn't published yet. What the... -
The long arm of plagiarism knows no bounds. by
on 2013-11-22 18:07:00 UTC
Link to this
It can stare into the unpublished void and steal ideas before they're even formed.
Moral of the story: you should live right next to any patenting office, just in case. -
The Fandom Protection Fleet... by
on 2013-11-22 06:53:00 UTC
Link to this
...comes from something hS posted on this board, during a 'what if our agents came from different backgrounds game'.
The original post can be found here: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?id=199610;article=240641;search_term=fandom+protection+fleet
The text used on the PPS site seems to be a direct rip of this, with some of the names changed. -
And way to be subtle about it. by
on 2013-11-22 09:27:00 UTC
Link to this
One of the characters is pretty much an hybrid of Madoka and Homura from PMMM (and even stated directly in the text), while the other smells a lot of Naruto (with a dash of Card Captor Sakura).
Then again, I'm the one who's using a badfic clone of Sakura as an Agent, so I don't think I can call out on the choice of names.
On the fact that it is copied straight from Firemagic's AU, that I will do. -
Uh, something strange going on on the Board... by
on 2013-11-22 09:33:00 UTC
Link to this
I was answering to SeaTurtle about the Magical Girl one. Why is my post here?
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Perhaps our Board is becoming glitchy? (nm) by
on 2013-11-23 00:09:00 UTC
Link to this
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Hey, that's kind of cool. by
on 2013-11-22 07:10:00 UTC
Link to this
I bet the person who wrote that is incredibly intelligent and probably ruggedly handsome to boot.
Seriously, I didn't even remember writing that, but I really like the concept. I might have to do more with it...
hS -
Yup, by
on 2013-11-22 08:34:00 UTC
Link to this
Well, the fact that it exists is cool, I'm guessing the fact that it was plagiarised is less cool... although if that was the reason you rediscovered the FPF then maybe every cloud really does have a silver lining.
I'm wondering if there's anything else that we can deduce about the writer - I'm sensing a certain 'devil may care' attitude from them. So, we've got someone who is: rugged, handsome, intelligent, devil may care, is into Star Wars, and uses the initials 'H S'…
Clearly, we're dealing with Han Solo :P
I too really like some of the PPC AU concepts we've got floating around. I definitely plan on doing some more with TCDA, and at least giving honourable mentions to the others. -
The Magical Girl one... by
on 2013-11-22 06:33:00 UTC
Link to this
...is ripped off of firemagic's post in the PPC AU game back in May of last year. Click here for their plagiarized article.
They can't hide from the Intelligence master.
I'm now seriously considering featuring copypasta clones as an episode of (Un)Intelligence. This is beautiful and terrible at the same time. -
I'm up for it. by
on 2013-11-22 04:19:00 UTC
Link to this
Well their Shipverse is a blatant rip-off of ours, right down to Luxury coming from it.
The Fanfiction Protection Society part looks familiar, I'm just now trying to work out where from exactly. -
The Fanfiction Protection Society by
on 2013-11-22 04:28:00 UTC
Link to this
You'll find that one is a combination of several concepts.
1) The Mirror Multiverse
2) The 2008 Mary Sue Invasion and the Mary Sue Factories
3) The Blackout
4) I may have missed some
All of that is wrapped up together in, what may be, their least blatant example of plagiarism to date.
-Phobos -
Re:The Fanfiction Protection Society by
on 2013-11-22 04:35:00 UTC
Link to this
I think some bits may be based upon The Reorganisation as well.
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I'd be happy to help! by
on 2013-11-22 02:24:00 UTC
Link to this
Do you want just a list sent in, or a collaborative thing where one person takes one section, and wheedles through it, one at a time?
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A list posted here would be fine. by
on 2013-11-22 03:01:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm mostly concerned about the italicized sections, since at least one I know to be plagiarized from a source outside the wiki—the Transfictional Canonical Defence Authority bit is straight out of Pieguy's original story. I'm wondering if the rest are also lifted from things I don't know about.
Just, ugh. Why.
(Also, apparently they've made our 2008 Sue Invasion and 2013 Blackout into one thing? *all the confusions*)
Thanks!
~Neshomeh -
Guys, can we calm down a bit? by
on 2013-11-20 09:59:00 UTC
Link to this
Now, I know I'm hardly a board regular- my post career here is minimal to say the least. And these days, I look at the board and I see new people, and my lawn chair cane combo starts to look pretty good right now.
However, I'd like to remind y'all of a pretty basic thing that I think has been forgotten by some of our more excitable members. Aelin and company? They're just kids. At the time that these wikias were made, they were like, 13-14ish, and maybe now are 15 at the most.
Yes, Plagiarism is wrong. No quibbles about that, but namecalling? These are kids with a bad idea and had the ability to execute it, not Sauron and the gorram ring wraiths.
I can understand getting all upset and flail-y because this is our stuff being stolen, and our stuff being plastered without care for our efforts, BUT.
They are still people.
We are still people.
Stuff like this? This is stuff we get called out on, next time someone decides to paint our community with a less than kind brush. This is the kind of stuff that makes us look, as a community of writers and readers, pretty bad.
And you know what? Unless this kind of thread goes completely uncontested? They're totally right to go after us for this. I'm not saying be Happy or Super Duper Ally Ooper Cheerful that our stuff got ganked. I'm saying be civil.
Alright? While yes, article 27 of the PPC Constitution is important, Article 2 is as well. Righteous Anger =/= name calling that can lead to bullying. -
Thank you for pointing this out. (nm) by
on 2013-11-20 21:56:00 UTC
Link to this
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While I myself have been feeling rather outraged, by
on 2013-11-20 16:07:00 UTC
Link to this
I must agree with Bryn as well. I haven't contributed to this thread yet, as everyone has been saying exactly what I mean to hours before me and far more concisely, but I feel the need to second this. We are the PPC. We're nice. We welcome newbies and celebrate birthdays. We create complaint threads about badfic, and rec goodfic. We hold writing contests. We make things. But we always, always don't mock people, instead mocking their writing and giving constructive criticism. How is this any different? Yes, it's an outrage, but the issue can be resolved without bloodshed, virtual or not. Calm, civil discussion is a very productive alternative. As Bryn said, Aelin and the others are, after all, still people.
-Aila
(And sorry for the huge paragraph. I just had a lot to say.) -
Still no response, so not much a discussion, but yes. (nm) by
on 2013-11-20 21:58:00 UTC
Link to this
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You're absolutely correct. by
on 2013-11-20 12:51:00 UTC
Link to this
And I feel bad for not saying it myself. Thank you.
(And while there is no strict order to the articles of the Constitution, I've always had the feeling the lower numbers tend to be more important)
hS -
Some interesting timing data. by
on 2013-11-19 09:21:00 UTC
Link to this
Earlier, Phobos noted that the FCA wiki hasn't been updated since May, or their blog since March. The PPS, as observed by the Irish Samurai, was last updated in September.
As you may remember, I've been collating information about the Board. AelinTheAmazing is in that data (of course): she posted for six months. Specifically, March-August of this year.
Which means that all the time she was hanging about, welcoming what seems to be every single newbie, and talking about how she might eventually ask for Permission, she was simultaneously ripping off the Wiki and Rambling Band.
I've just glanced over all her posts (yes, really), and can't find any mentions that she was doing anything of the sort - or even any vaguely-worded questions asking if it was okay. The only thing that comes close is the thread where she asked whether it was okay to adopt abandoned agents, and listed a few whose authors hadn't been around for a couple of years.
Did she spend time in the IRC while she was around here? If so, did she talk about it at all there?
hS
PS: AddiePenguin, the other name mentioned here, also posted to the Board; from what I can tell, she made her intro post and never said anything else. -
She was definitely an IRCer. by
on 2013-11-20 10:00:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't remember anything specific about her, but the name definitely rings bells of some sort. I have no idea what sort, sorry.
Also, seconding Bryn on this. Please take a deep breath and remember that the people on the other sides of these screens - even the ones currently being jerks - still have feelings. Would we really be cool with saying all this, in such tones, if Aelin was still posting regularly? -
As an IRC regular, I remember Aelin. by
on 2013-11-20 06:40:00 UTC
Link to this
Not much, but her most prominent feature was that she was a HUGE redwall fan. She wasn't around long, but for a little bit she was fairly active.
Addie the Penguin, however, doesn't ring any bells.
I'll prod a few of the other non-board but IRC regulars, see if we can pull together some more info for you.
But trust me, we'd have remembered something if she brought up something like this. -
I never saw her in the IRC. by
on 2013-11-20 01:26:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't think she logged on even once.
But whoah, she was plagiarizing the PPC while joining the community? Hot damn... I wish I could say I found that surprising, but knowing my experiences with a particular non-PPC person at the moment, I unfortunately can't say that this is all that surprising. This is just crazy... -
Far as I know she either never came into IRC or didn't say m by
on 2013-11-19 16:02:00 UTC
Link to this
-uch. Apparently she didn't mesh with the culture here very well and decided to go start her own PPC. I know she didn't seem to interact a whole lot because she left no way to get in touch with her - making my job here a good sight harder. :P
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...what? by
on 2013-11-19 09:55:00 UTC
Link to this
This is... odd. Very odd. Why would attempt to assimilate with a community just to stab them in the back?
This is a new kind of evil...
Th Emperor Protects... -
"Evil" is a bit of a melodramatic way to put it... (nm) by
on 2013-11-19 16:02:00 UTC
Link to this
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Yeah... by
on 2013-11-19 10:01:00 UTC
Link to this
Either she was setting it up already as a backup plan in case we were meanies that wouldn't give her permission (which doesn't look the case, as she never asked) or she pretended to join the community just to spy on us.
Still, asking if it was alright to use inactive agents when you're already plagiarizing everything else? That's... odd to say the least. Unless she was looking for agents to forcibly transfer in the FCA/PPS... -
An excuse bring back the DIO if there ever was one. (nm) by
on 2013-11-18 20:55:00 UTC
Link to this
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Wouldn't really be their jurisdiction. by
on 2013-11-18 21:41:00 UTC
Link to this
I think it is more likely to be handled by Captain Dandy's Weeds.
-Phobos -
They're not really an external security threat. by
on 2013-11-19 00:23:00 UTC
Link to this
Being suspiciously similar (and out of continuity, plagiarised) doesn't really make you a threat the security departments or redcaps need to deal with. DIO, maybe, if they still existed and weren't disbanded for a good reason, but I prefer to go about as if the FCA/PPS just plain don't exist in-continuity. Acknowledging them in setting seems like giving them more attention/perceived legitimacy than is deserved. :P
(Incidentally, still nothing from the admins. Let's give them a week and then ask Wikia to bring down the hammer?) -
Yeah, my Wikia contact recommends waiting about a week. (nm) by
on 2013-11-19 02:08:00 UTC
Link to this
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That seems like a reasonable amount of time. :P by
on 2013-11-19 02:12:00 UTC
Link to this
I'll keep checking in on their wikis for any activity, but if we never hear back at least we have Wikia as recourse.
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It might be now. by
on 2013-11-18 22:35:00 UTC
Link to this
Since I've never actually done Justin's getting-off-the-hook story, I might work up a little something with him and Nita to... discuss, not deal with, this. I dunno, I'll see whether a story comes out of it.
hS -
Short DIO Plug! by
on 2013-11-19 10:37:00 UTC
Link to this
What, you thought it would be impossible? You thought being disbanded and mostly kicked out of the PPC would mean they couldn't have any more stories?
Yeah, right.
I am pleased to present, Fallen Feathers, Part 2...
Feather: Virfir
Enjoy!
(Technically it's more like Part 4, but 2-3 haven't been written yet...)
hS -
Well that was interesting. by
on 2013-11-19 23:45:00 UTC
Link to this
I am semi-intreauged how this 'freelance' group works. Indeed, as Jumper is a multiverse traveler, he may be interested in interacting with such a group. That is not to say that he is not going to be an agent. He'll do his PPC missions like a good little agent (probably Floaters, as it makes since with his personality) and will be a part of the PPC proper. However, if he were to stumble across this group of people, or have them stumble across him...
Right! Two missions first. I swear they will be done. I just don't have the time... Oh, look, Equestria Daily updated... -
The funny thing... (slight spoiler) by
on 2013-11-19 16:20:00 UTC
Link to this
I can totally buy someone making one of those in DF. People've built functioning computers, monuments with the entire history of the world, etc. etc. in that game.
(Also, I'm surprised a DF-generated world hasn't got anyone's headquarters in, it'd be a good place.) -
He's back, is he? by
on 2013-11-19 16:04:00 UTC
Link to this
It's good to see the old Dwarf. You will recall that I wasn't fond of his fate, so it's nice to see him escape it. I also like the way that Nita reacts to his sudden return. She's had some odd experiences with ghosts recently, so her suspicions are totally justified.
I think this was an interesting way of handling the current situation. The Venus Flytrap and its department are oft forgotten, but they are a good tool for this job.
In other news, you beat me to the punch. I have a short story in the works from Captain Dandy's POV about the whole thing. I will be taking a less direct look at it, though.
-Phobos -
It'd make an interesting read! by
on 2013-11-19 16:24:00 UTC
Link to this
I have a couple groups who'd likely take an interest in these events but it falls outside of their purview unless stuff gets really out of hand...
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That was good. (nm) by
on 2013-11-19 10:48:00 UTC
Link to this
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Urgh, plagiarism. by
on 2013-11-18 20:38:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't know why these guys thought we wouldn't find out that they're stealing our stuff.
The SEP Field page is partly my work, by the way, and I imagine a lot of you folks are annoyed that they have taken your work, too. I did *research* on that, darn it!
I don't know whether these people are deliberately stealing our stuff, or whether they don't know what plagiarism means and don't realize it's wrong; either way, let's try not to bite their heads off too hard, okay? They're still fellow human beings. If they're of the ignorant variety, maybe they are even willing to learn. -
Damn, what the hell did I miss? by
on 2013-11-18 03:11:00 UTC
Link to this
I just... Damn. I don't really have anything to add to the conversation that hasn't been said below either, but... God damn, what's up with that?
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A question by
on 2013-11-17 04:14:00 UTC
Link to this
Are we on friendly terms with the Anti-Cliche and Mary-Sue Elimination Society?
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From what I've seen... by
on 2013-11-17 04:39:00 UTC
Link to this
We agreed on no official affiliation. We aren't on poor terms with them, but we aren't exactly about to be doing crossovers with them, either.
Adding to the no-crossovers-in-the-foreseeable-future factor is the fact that their community is very different from ours; they have fewer members and no public Board, they don't actually spork real badfics, but instead make up archetypal stories to send their characters into, and the in-universe structure is different, with different power structure, different technology(for the most part; there are some bits like plothole generators, SEP Fields, and Canon Cannons that are shared, but those are either fandom-derived or meta-derived, so it's most likely coincidence), and higher acceptable power level for the agents.
There's actually not a lot of overlap in the particulars, just the basic concepts, and the two organizations basically just let one another fight the Sue scourge their own way. I'm not familiar with the details, but this isn't the first time the Society has been brought up on the Board, and a lot of this reply has just been me summarizing the general responses in the past. -
Sounds about right. by
on 2013-11-17 05:03:00 UTC
Link to this
I think I recall, or this could just be my interpretation, that the PPC and ACMSES are mutually uncanonical - which is to say, in the PPC setting the ACMSES doesn't canonically exist and vice versa. Either way, we're pretty much neutral, yeah.
(I personally don't care for them, but that's not the topic at hand.) -
I believe so. Neutral at least. (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 04:17:00 UTC
Link to this
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Not much I can really add in this regard... by
on 2013-11-17 02:37:00 UTC
Link to this
...that hasn't already been said. It's inexcusable that this has occurred. It offends me as a writer, as a reader, and as a fan of the arts.
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In regards to this... series of events. by
on 2013-11-17 01:44:00 UTC
Link to this
I'd like to quietly direct you all to the page "EggplaNet" .
And then quietly to the episode list.
I'd like to imagine the creator of this page hadn't been overly familiar with our canon nor it's inhabitants. -
This is rather creepy... by
on 2013-11-17 01:23:00 UTC
Link to this
It's an infant organization, all right, but it follows PPC… everything to a T. Yikes.
The one question is, what do we do? I would suggest contacting these people and (*nicely*) telling them what's going on. We could figure it out from there. -
That's exactly what we're trying to do, read down. (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 01:37:00 UTC
Link to this
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Quick update by
on 2013-11-17 01:21:00 UTC
Link to this
I couldn't find Aelin or Addy's e-mail addresses or any other contact information, but I have left a message on their talk pages on both wikis asking for them to get in touch. They haven't really done anything on either for months, but they should receive a notification about my message and get back to me if wikia works like I think it does. Hopefully this can be resolved without any huge drama.
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Wikia update by
on 2013-11-17 18:28:00 UTC
Link to this
I've heard back from Wikia. They say:
Thank you for contacting Wikia. Reusing material is acceptable under the Creative Commons license as long as they provide proper attribution on every article and link back to your wiki. There's an example of how to provide proper attribution in our Terms of Use here:
http://www.wikia.com/Licensing#Using_Wikia_content
If they're not currently attributing the content, we recommend that you contact the admins responsible for this content and explain this policy to them, and share the link. If they are unwilling to address the issue, please send us
1) The URL to the conversation you've had with them, and
2) Examples of copied pages (including two URLs each -- one for the page on their wiki and one for the page on yours) so we can research the issue further.
Thanks for being part of Wikia, and happy editing!
Personally, I don't think proper attribution really addresses our grievance at this point, but I'm for seeing what kind of response we get (if any) before deciding how to follow up with Wikia.
~Neshomeh -
It might take a bit, if they ever get back to me. by
on 2013-11-17 18:29:00 UTC
Link to this
Frankly, I suspect at best we'll get a sort of "Oh, yeah, sorry about that, we'll get right on it" and then never see them again. Would all the barely token name changes slip by Wikia you think?
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Thanks for taking point on this, by the way. {= ) (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 18:44:00 UTC
Link to this
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No worries, figured it about time I did something useful. :P by
on 2013-11-17 22:47:00 UTC
Link to this
Sounds pretty open and shut, but hopefully we hear back and can talk it over with them. Not that there's much point, it being a dead community of all of two people, but just on principle.
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Not if we pointed them out. by
on 2013-11-17 18:43:00 UTC
Link to this
I think the situation is fairly impossible to misread, and the fact that they've changed names actually works against them. We're not complaining about them reusing our text to explain a PPC/other concept, which would be fine with correct attribution—we're complaining about them reusing our text to play off a PPC/other concept as their own. Big difference.
~Neshomeh -
Wait... OH GOOD EMPEROR by
on 2013-11-16 22:26:00 UTC
Link to this
I just had a horrifying revelation.
The 2 societies we speak of might be Doppelganger Sues.
The Emperor... Protects... -
It sure looks like it. (nm) by
on 2013-11-16 21:35:00 UTC
Link to this
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I bring grave tidings... by
on 2013-11-16 20:33:00 UTC
Link to this
That's not the only place we're being plagiarised, and yeah, it's pretty damn clear that the FCA is a case of plagiarism.
I was looking round their wiki, mostly for my own personal amusement/entertainment (in a weird sort of way, I'll admit), to see just how many instances I could spot. For reference, as has been pointed out by others, there are a lot - although the most egregious one that I found is a direct reference to the PPC. Quoting from the FCA's Rules:
'346. Thou shalt remember that during the PPC's Quidditch matches, that accidentally taking out Juniper is not a good idea. It only makes her think thou dost like her.' It's also possibly worth noting that this 'Juniper' was in fact Luxury in the original version, and there a few other references to Juniper that I recognise as originally refering to Lux.
Anyway, that's not actually the bad bit...
While browsing, I noticed that one of the other FCA Admins is also active on another wikia site: the Plot Protection Society, or PPS. Now that seemed suspicious enough for me to check out, and when I got there I found a list of stories produced (apparently) by this society. The first mission, titled Not For Harp features three agents going in to Middle-earth to dispose of the Sue, Laurel. That name seemed sort of familiar to me, and after a quick check of our very own wiki, I discovered that I had indeed seen the name Laurel before: that's the name of the Sue from 'Rambling Band', the first ever PPC mission.
From the PPS:
Either way, the music was... not that good. Call Me Maybe just wasn’t meant for the harp. It wasn’t even as if they had anything to drown it out - all three had been forced to turn off their Analysis Devices, or risk being deafened by the now-constant shrills.
Upon the last chord, Emma sighed with relief, and then noticed that Gandalf had stood up and taken Laurel's hand.
"You are quite a special young woman, lady Laurel. You have woven a spell over us all with your wit and beauty. Are you sure you possess no magic?"
Laurel smiled demurely, and Emma tried not to retch. "The little brat even messed with Gandalf," she muttered. "If anyone deserves what I'm going to do to her..."
It was then that Laurel wandered off towards a moonlit balcony, and Boromir following, with a lovestruck expression on his face. Jason, realizing his partner hadn’t noticed, poked Emma in the arm, and pointed.
Emma stared in utter confusion, then realized what was going on and hurried off to a vantage point beneath the balcony.
When Jason reached her side, Emma's teeth were gritted, and she was glaring venomously at the balcony.
"But you told me the bint was after Legolas-”
Jason hurried to correct her, hoping she still had the self-control to restrain herself from murdering him. “Both of them, I said. Remember?” Oh, no.
It was only then that he noticed her hand scrabbling for the strap of her quiver.
"Are you mad?" demanded Jason, snatching her bow away and hoping his partner wouldn't just try to throw the arrow like a dart.
“I don’t think so, but whoever came up with this Sue is! Look at this!" She waved her Device frantically in Jason’s face. "They've just about made up an entire new character and named him Boromir, I am not standing for this, give me back my bow!"
"Not until they're out of Rivendell, remember? You were the one who had to tell me that!" Jason protested. On his shoulder, robin-Harriet twittered in concerned agreement, then jumped when a beep erupted from Jason's pack. He pulled out his Character Analysis Device, which was shrilling strangely.
From the PPC:
It... wasn't that good. Led Zeppelin just wasn't meant for the harp.
Acacia made a face at the sound of the music. It wasn't even as if she had anything to drown it out—she had finally been forced to turn off the sound on her Analysis Device, or risk being deafened by its by-now-constant shrills.
As the music ended, all of the canon characters beamed at the band. Jay winced as Strider and Gandalf cheered... even Elrond and Arwen were smiling interestedly, although Elrond's smile looked a bit forced. Ah, thought Jay, sharing a glance with her friend. The man's no fool.
Acacia smiled faintly, but resumed her grim expression as she aimed her Analysis Device at each canon character in turn and read the rather depressing results. Jay couldn't help noticing the ridiculous number of times it was pointed at Boromir, always with the same result: basically, that he was so far out of character he couldn't poke the canon with a very long pole.
Jay patted her friend's arm comfortingly. "It'll be all right..." She turned her attention back to the Council.
Gandalf had stood up and taken Laurel's hand. "You are quite talented, young lady. You have woven a spell over everyone with your song. Are you sure you know no magic?"
Laurel smiled demurely at Gandalf. "I am positive. I didn't write it, so it is not my magic."
Jay tried not to retch. You even affected Gandalf, you slime mold. You richly deserve what you've got coming...
It was then that she noticed Laurel wandering off towards a balcony... and Boromir following, with a dazed expression on his face. She poked Acacia in the arm, and pointed.
Acacia's jaw dropped. "But you said that Legolas—" she began, then hurried off to a vantage point from the bushes under the balcony.
Jay followed hurriedly. "BOTH of them, I said. Remember?" Oh, dear.
When Jay caught up with her, Acacia was not glaring venomously at the scene on the balcony, but had the slightly unfocused expression that meant she was looking at the words that made the world, and in fact reading ahead of the here-and-now. Jay shook her gently, and she focused again, and now started glaring at the balcony.
And scrabbling for her quiver.
"Are you crazy?" demanded Jay, snatching Acacia's bow away and hoping Acacia wouldn't just try to throw the arrow like a dart.
"No, but whoever came up with this Sue is. And look at this." She showed Jay the Device. "It's even worse than at the Council, they've just about made up a whole new character and named him Boromir, I am NOT standing for this, give me back my bow!"
"Not until they're out of Rivendell! NOT UNTIL THEY'RE OUT. We'll be able to save him then." A faint beep erupted from Jay's pack. She pulled out her Character Analysis Device, which was warbling strangely.
And there are various other instances like that.
So yeah, it's gone beyond just stealing from random pages of the wiki - they're stealing stories too. Which comes under 'Not Cool' as far as I'm concerned. -
I bring additional tidings... by
on 2013-11-17 05:04:00 UTC
Link to this
Not only has the "PPS" been ripping off the PPC, it's also been ripping off the FCA. I was looking around the PPS wiki that was just linked, and immediately noticed, shall we say, similarities between its pages and some of the pages in the already-full-of-stolen-pages FCA wiki, and after I went back to the main pages of both wikis once a brief search revealed a few ACMSES concepts that the FCA, and consequently the PPS, had also absconded with, I recognized something.
The PPS stole the majority of the main page of the FCA Wiki, itself a plagiarized series, and posted it as their own main page with almost no editing or alteration whatsoever. Not only did they lift numerous articles from the plagiarism-wiki word-for-word, they lifted its main page. At least the FCA had the minuscule amount of dignity necessary to make their own main page. This is just... I'm not sure whether to be confused or appalled by the outright laziness that drove that entire process. I seem to be leaning more on the "appalled" side, so I'll keep out of official cross-site discussion. I'd probably end up more enraged than helpful.
Still, though. Why? So much why? -
The PPS and FCA are the sam- oh, what Phobos said. (nm) by
on 2013-11-18 03:30:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Now I'm just confused. (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 07:50:00 UTC
Link to this
-
There's a reason for that. by
on 2013-11-17 05:08:00 UTC
Link to this
They are the same site. They changed the name, but the people are the same and the idea is the same. So, it wasn't really plagiarizing a plagiarist. Just reusing the same material they had already taken.
-Phobos -
Ah, I see it now. by
on 2013-11-19 20:35:00 UTC
Link to this
I just hadn't checked through their chatlogs. If I had, I would've seen that right away.
Now I'm even more confused, though. The way the two admins refer to it in their chatlogs, both "organizations" are extensions of the same entity, with one being an elite tier of the other, or something like that. So why make two wikis, especially when one wiki is going to be functionally identical to the other? Why not just keep the same one they were using, but change all of the relevant information to fit the altered direction?
Then again, if they were prone to thinking things through, they probably would not be plagiarizing, especially this blatantly. -
Oh wow. by
on 2013-11-16 23:25:00 UTC
Link to this
That goes beyond Not Cool. That goes all the way to Knock It Off Now.
-
But why? by
on 2013-11-16 22:27:00 UTC
Link to this
Why would someone want to make a rip-off the PPC? It just doesn't make sense.
-
Everyone to the livechat! by
on 2013-11-16 22:46:00 UTC
Link to this
We must plan...
The Emperor Protects! -
This shall not stand! by
on 2013-11-16 22:14:00 UTC
Link to this
People are directly ripping us off. This is not a good thing by any means. We can not let them get away with this!
The Emperor Protects! -
What the kriif is "The Emperor Protects" about? (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 01:22:00 UTC
Link to this
-
It's from Warhammer 40k, I think. by
on 2013-11-17 01:37:00 UTC
Link to this
It's just Hedgehog's way of signing off. Nothing to get worked up about, I think.
-Phobos -
Just a common saying from Warhammer 40k. (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 03:06:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Misspelled "kriff". Sorry. (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 01:23:00 UTC
Link to this
-
...do mini-swears exist...? ...now I kind of want one... by
on 2013-11-25 06:10:00 UTC
Link to this
Perhaps 'biege sky over Galifrey'. XD
(They just become minis of whatever continuum they come from, don't they. Or else are just counted as misspellings. Oh well.)
~DF -
Well, they certainly don't... by
on 2013-11-25 14:56:00 UTC
Link to this
... become mini-Words.
Because those don't exist.
Honest.
hS -
Got it. by
on 2013-11-25 15:02:00 UTC
Link to this
Really. I do.
Promise.
Those pictures certainly did not convince me that they might exist in some parallel world or alternate reality. Not at all.
~DF -
As long as we're clear on that. (nm) by
on 2013-11-25 16:36:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Oh definitely. We're clear. Absolutely. Completely. Entirely (nm by
on 2013-11-25 17:00:00 UTC
Link to this
-
No. That is not cool. Not cool at all. by
on 2013-11-16 22:03:00 UTC
Link to this
I have taken the precaution of downloading "Not For Harp" (and please consider those to be sarcasm quotes as well as standard short fiction quotes), in case the Gdoc becomes locked like the others. Documenting here that I have done so.
Did you notice the inserted "badfic quotes" that are completely made-up gibberish? -_-
I don't even.
Also, they stole the Mary Sue article. My Mary Sue article, if you please. As if I needed more reasons to be very, very angry at these people.
I'll be over here frothing at the mouth and ranting incoherently if anyone needs me.
~Neshomeh -
Definitely Not Cool by
on 2013-11-16 22:17:00 UTC
Link to this
That's probably a good idea - and I'm very curious as to what it locked away behind those other GDoc links.
I didn't notice the gibberish, I don't think I got that far. I just got as far as having definitive proof that it was a copy of the mission before I stopped reading (after all, the name of the Sue could have been a coincidence).
They seem to have stolen a lot of your stuff, I'd offer you some Bleeprin on the off-chance that'd help, but I'm not sure it's strong enough to have any affect. Maybe some Bleepka, or even some experimental Bliskey? (Bleeprin and whiskey - I haven't even given any of this to Agent Skeet yet, and he'd love this stuff).
I think they definitely need to be contacted about this, but probably not right now - it's still too raw for me to think that I could do so and actually remain civil, and I'm guessing you feel the same. -
I've taken to neuralyzation for extremely bad things. (nm) by
on 2013-11-16 22:20:00 UTC
Link to this
-
... Whaaaat???? by
on 2013-11-16 21:53:00 UTC
Link to this
*tries to calm down as he realized that he's overpunctuating*
They... they copied the TOS and changed the names? Just... Just how in hell?...
*breathes*
This is probably one of the worst cases of hipocrisy I've ever seen. A supposedly badfic-fighting society whose stories are plagirized, and so fall straight into bad writing? Never thought I'd ever see the day. -
IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ by
on 2013-11-16 20:03:00 UTC
Link to this
I've done some further digging and it seems that the two main people in the FCA have not updated their wiki since May. No one has posted on their blog since March, or on their message board, either. So, it is entirely possible that they have given it up. That being the case, it is important that we let them explain themselves. So, let's put the knee-jerk reactions down and let them do that.
Aelin/Impossible, if you are reading this, this would be a good chance to give your side of the story.
-Phobos -
Forget I said anything. by
on 2013-11-16 21:46:00 UTC
Link to this
With the new revelations discovered by the Irish Samurai, they no longer get the benefit of the doubt from me. It was Not Cool to plagiarize the wiki. It is inexcusable to plagiarize Jay and Acacia's work.
-Phobos -
I've just read something important :) by
on 2013-11-16 20:54:00 UTC
Link to this
I agree that knee-jerk reactions should be put aside, I actually started writing my above post before you'd posted yours - if I'd seen that I would have tempered mine a little.
However, I also think it's worth pointing out that the PPS site seems to have been active after the FCA site stopped getting updates. The most recent update to the PPS that I can find was in September, so while it is possible that they have both been abandoned, I figure it's also possible that the PPS has taken over from the FCA, and it's just been a slow couple of months. -
Huh... by
on 2013-11-16 21:22:00 UTC
Link to this
Yeah, it looks like they just pulled up stakes and moved to a new wiki. Most of this stuff is exactly the same.
-Phobos -
It gets better! by
on 2013-11-16 19:44:00 UTC
Link to this
Firstly, their Armo
ury is located right off of a Escher room. Sound familiar?
Secondly, the concept of a Black List for dangerous fandoms is directly ripped off from the ACMSES list, right down to slightly-altered descriptions.
Thirdly, their console design is a Google Doodle commemorating Douglas Adams' 61st birthday (it's interactive!).
Fourthly, their HQ's design is a blatant rip-off of the ACMSES Library, with choice edits, of course.
There's like, zero originality in is organization.
...I'm now tempted to have Gaspard run into his copypasta clone whilst on mission. -
what by
on 2013-11-17 02:45:00 UTC
Link to this
This... what. what. Why?
As an former ACMSES writer, I am outraged. This is a travesty. I do not want to cause much drama, but I am tempted to tell the ACMSES side of the internet about this. Please stop me. -
It would be wise to exercise restraint. by
on 2013-11-17 02:51:00 UTC
Link to this
Ekyl is on the job now and he's sent messages to the proper people.
We can solve this quietly and peacefully without a huge drama-fest on our hands if we just keep a level head and avoid spreading the news like wildfire. I'm not saying we can't be supremely insulted by this-- in fact, plagiarism is inexcusable-- but I think that we can keep this civil and quiet by not making this bigger than it already is.
In the meantime, we can listen to the soothing sounds of Minecraft's Volume Alpha, by C418. The Subwoofer Lullaby is still the best track out of all of 'em! -
Aw (expletive), too late. by
on 2013-11-17 03:29:00 UTC
Link to this
Sorry. My temper got the better of me. (Idiot newbie.)
In my defense though, I told them it's already a dead community. -
Meh, go ahead, not like I care. (nm) by
on 2013-11-17 02:48:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Also by
on 2013-11-16 17:54:00 UTC
Link to this
They have a Code Of Laws that lists "4. Thou shalt not steal from others." That's fun, isn't it. That is just above the list of 454 selected entries from "Things I Am Not Allowed To Do In The PPC" which have been edited (poorly) to take out references to the PPC. They still mention some PPC agents by name, though.
-Phobos -
Can I just point out... by
on 2013-11-16 19:35:00 UTC
Link to this
That the choice of which articles to plagiarize is entirely baffling?
Why rip-off the Single Tear article?
Was it really necessary to steal the Humour page?
Seriously, they only have 56 pages right now, and those were some of the things they bothered to take? Why not take some of the Departments that they were going to reference? That would have at least made sense.
Also, almost the entirety of theirUnclaimedAvailable Badfic comes straight out of our Killed list. Stealing kills from such names as Nume, Ilraen, Suicide, and Diocletian (Ring Child), Des and Anebrin (Artemis Fowl and the Time Lord), Floristan and Eusabius (Rainbow Dash Goes To the Mushroom Kingdom), Nume and Ilraen again (Harry Potter and the Dragonsriders of Pern), Mittens and the Radioactive Moss Creature (The Making of a Queen), and Cadmar, Miah, and Cali (The Jedi and the Hobbit).
Maybe they think they can do better?
-Phobos -
WTF? by
on 2013-11-16 16:41:00 UTC
Link to this
And yes, I'm pretty sure AelinTheAmazing was a Boarder a while ago. If I recall correctly, she (... she was a she, right?) had decided to spork badfics on her own, with her own "agency", instead of affiliating with us, which is fine.
But... well, I'm afraid she's copying the PPC a bit too much. -
Exactly. by
on 2013-11-16 21:09:00 UTC
Link to this
If you actually look up 'AelinTheAmazing' on the Board, you can actually find her introductory post.
~Autumn, hoping to provide some useful information. -
Yuuuup. by
on 2013-11-16 18:14:00 UTC
Link to this
They even forgot their old user page in our wiki. Seems really likely that's the case. I think that what Nesh said is right and someone should send them a mail telling them not to plagiarise us. Not me, though, I think I might be a bit impolite.
-
Definitely a rip-off by
on 2013-11-16 16:39:00 UTC
Link to this
I mean if you look in their FAQ: For Rookies one of the questions is thus
I've found loads of badfics, but I can't write reports for all of them! What should I do?
List them on the Unclaimed Badfic page, which you can also use to look for a badfic to use in your next mission...
Now they don't even have an 'Unclaimed Badfic' page, which really makes you wonder doesn't it.
My favourite mistake they've made though is in their very first question on the FAQ page.
What's the difference between a department, a subdepartment, and so on?
Departments deal with more general topics, while subdepartments and below are divisions of the departments that deal with more specialized issues. For instance, if there are technical errors in a fic, the Department of Technical Errors will be contacted. They will then look up the errors and decide which subdepartment to send agents from.
For those who haven't looked at the site yet, let's just say they miss a Department of Technical Errors.
Although whilst they do seem to largely be a rip-off, they seem to have different goal to us in that they are trying to 'educate fanwriters about writing goodfic' so they are slightly different if they try and focus on that more.
Storme Hawk
The guy who loves to pick holes in things. -
Oh, but they do have a DTE. by
on 2013-11-16 16:59:00 UTC
Link to this
And lots of other familiar-looking departments, too. Scroll down for the full list.
I'll admit I've seen a few original ideas here and there, but I've also turned up a lot that's too bloody familiar. They stole some of our Sibling House names for their HQ's dorm wings, for goodness' sake. Darjeeling, Fruit Bat, and Parmandili. What are the odds of that assortment of words turning up together in two places by random chance? Zero, I'm thinking.
And I know we don't really own Bleeprin, but if you're going to blatantly steal the idea, why not just use Bleeprin and credit Meir Brin and TZA instead of unsubtly renaming it and trying to pass it off as original?
Jeez, I'm mad right now. >.
~Neshomeh -
Sigh. by
on 2013-11-16 17:52:00 UTC
Link to this
The Brain Bleach article was blatantly copypasted from the Bleeprin one, including the not-for-avian tag... which Brain Bleach as it is described shouldn't have, as it is the aspirin part of Bleeprin what makes the latter unsuitable.
... Should we send AelinTheAmazing a mail in which we kindly ask to stop plagiarizing us? -
Yeah, about how to proceed: by
on 2013-11-16 18:03:00 UTC
Link to this
I think contacting Aelin with a polite request to remove all plagiarized content, and also cease and desist with the stealing, needs to be the first step. Is there anyone here who knows/knew her well, and would be comfortable doing that?
Also, FYI, I've contacted Wikia for advice and to learn how they handle issues like this, just in case. Obviously we don't want to escalate matters to that level, but I figure it's better to have the information and not need it than to just wing it.
~Neshomeh -
I think it should be one of our "big names". by
on 2013-11-16 18:26:00 UTC
Link to this
Like Huinesoron, who's here since... 2003? Anyways, while we don't have community leaders or something like that, I think it should be an oldbye because... well, it sounds more official that way?
-
Neshomeh is a 'big name' too. :) (nm) by
on 2013-11-16 21:37:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Well hS... by
on 2013-11-16 22:30:00 UTC
Link to this
...looks like it's up to you.
Emperor Guide You. -
Um, no thanks? (nm) by
on 2013-11-16 23:05:00 UTC
Link to this
-
I can take care of it if it's okay with all y'all. by
on 2013-11-16 23:52:00 UTC
Link to this
I know I've said this twice, but just for the sake of noting. And also buying time while I dig through for the admin's e-mail address. :p
-
Go for it! by
on 2013-11-17 00:17:00 UTC
Link to this
If there's anything I can do to help, by all means let me know.
And for everyone else: Please let Ekyl handle this. If he needs help, additional E-mails, etc, he will ask for it. The last thing we need is a bunch of people defacing pages, sending threatening E-mails etc. -
Re: Go for it! by
on 2013-11-17 00:24:00 UTC
Link to this
I can't seem to find Aelin's e-mail address. I'm digging through both wikis and this thread at the moment.
-
I'd do it, but I'm taking this rather personally. by
on 2013-11-16 19:16:00 UTC
Link to this
I wrote a fair amount of the content that's been stolen, see. The meat of the Creativity article, for instance. -_-
If it comes down to it, I can speak as an old-oldbie and a PPC Wiki admin, but I'll definitely need some time to cool off first. I'd really prefer if someone else did it.
~Neshomeh -
I could give it a shot, with or without a bit of backup. by
on 2013-11-16 23:05:00 UTC
Link to this
About time I did something useful around here, after all.
-
I'm here by
on 2013-11-17 01:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Although I'm not a big name, I'll help.
-
Backup? by
on 2013-11-16 23:50:00 UTC
Link to this
You've got it.
-
I'll let you know if I need the help, thanks. by
on 2013-11-17 00:02:00 UTC
Link to this
Just keep cool for now, nothing rash. :p
-
I'd be willing backup by
on 2013-11-16 23:13:00 UTC
Link to this
Although I'm not exactly a 'big name' here.
-
Well typing I typed it into the search bar... by
on 2013-11-16 17:48:00 UTC
Link to this
and didn't get anything, but hey should've looked deeper.
Damn, also if you look at their barrack's and our RC's they look damn well similar (not the same I'll admit) even down to the colour of one of the beds and the same chair next to the console.
I could go on for a while listing all the similarities.
Storme Hawk -
One more (for now) by
on 2013-11-16 18:02:00 UTC
Link to this
Like I said, I like picking things apart
FCA code of law: Sub-code of Sub-Law is way too similar (if a lot shorter) than TIANATDATPPC parts I-XXV.
Storme Hawk -
Interesting thing I found. by
on 2013-11-16 18:07:00 UTC
Link to this
Apparently, the FCA bans missions on fandoms like Fullmetal Alchemist, Halo and Terminator because it would be too dangerous for the FCA agents.
... I see no practical reason for that. -
Another thing by
on 2013-11-17 01:50:00 UTC
Link to this
Code Geass was also on the Blacklist. Is it because of the "shoot and kill" atmosphere? Or because of something else?
-
I saw that by
on 2013-11-16 18:20:00 UTC
Link to this
I have no clue about Terminator or Fullmetal Alchemist. But I assume that Halo is deemed 'too dangerous' because the FCA don't have disguises like PPC agents and thus are more likely to be attacked by canon's like (in the Haloverse) the Flood or the Convent or the Prometheans who have something against humanity in general and are more likely to 'kill first ask questions later'.
I have no real idea, I'm just guessing though. It could just be that the admins either love/hate those fandoms too much to write missions in them.
Storme Hawk
-
Permission Mk.2 by
on 2013-11-19 06:25:00 UTC
Link to this
Well here goes something...
Agent Profiles
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AAYf-BKJ7VCCsA7krwUWqsM7YZp7atu7AMMKvrXkX0A/edit?usp=sharing
Writing Sample
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JUIkY2wCrNNayjR9v0ccnvfamDXZmYa9fO5OsPAgDAI/edit?usp=sharing
Badfic
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8738702/1/Daughter-Of-Time
Well there it is.
Storme Hawk
P.S Sorry for knocking the big post off the top spot -
Congratulations on getting Permission! (nm) by
on 2013-11-22 08:23:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Thanks (and sorry for the late reply) (nm) by
on 2013-11-28 21:47:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Badfic update by
on 2013-11-19 19:19:00 UTC
Link to this
After realizing that the fic I was going to spork has gone through a serious revision I'm going to try and spork this instead.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6272813/1
Although having read the first chapter it does bring up an interesting question. If the author doesn't describe what their OC's are wearing, is there a Generic Material to cover them or what? -
Some timeless wisdom by
on 2013-11-19 20:11:00 UTC
Link to this
Do whatever is funniest.
-Phobos -
Keeping my PG hat firmly on. by
on 2013-11-19 15:28:00 UTC
Link to this
Well, here we are again. Let's see what we've got.
Not much change to the Agents, which isn't a bad thing. There really wasn't a problem with them in the first place. I do find it interesting that you have two ranged fighters, though. I wonder what the differences in style might be.
Your writing sample has improved, though there are still issues. hS had really good advice and covered most of what I would, so I don't need to get too far into that. I will say that the redundancies still crop up from time to time. For example, "James was comparatively lucky compared to the majority of the Powered..." That would be better written as, "James was lucky compared to the majority of the Powered..." Gotta watch out for that.
And now for something completely different. I've been keeping an eye on the Halloween RP thread and I liked what I saw from you. Your characters interact well with other peoples' and seemed to be having fun. They have distinct personalities and voices (something that was often missing in the writing sample), which makes it easy to know who is talking. However, most of the criticisms for your writing sample apply here, as well.
So, my verdict is Permission Granted. Just keep working on the things that need improvement and find yourself a good beta who can help keep you in check. Believe me, as someone who has similar writing quirks and habits, a good beta is your best friend.
-Phobos -
Thank you by
on 2013-11-19 18:21:00 UTC
Link to this
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Right, now I'm slightly calmer.
-Kelly is going to be more of a support person, quite a large chunk of her is based off of my Time Lord alter-ego thing we did a while back, whilst Apollo is much more offensive and is the 'leader' of the duo. Apollo's the more serious person whilst Kelly is much more laid back and slightly hyper.
-I will bear that in mind, thank you.
-No explosion? I'm disappointed. I'll be honest I've been RPing on a different site for about 18 months now, so I'm a lot more confident in a RP than in writing fiction.
-Thanks once again, for the advice and everything
Storme Hawk -
RP vs Fiction by
on 2013-11-19 18:32:00 UTC
Link to this
If you think about it, writing fiction is just RPing with yourself. Seriously. Especially when you are writing dialogue.
There is no reason you can't use the same style in your fiction writing.
-Phobos -
Depends on the RP. by
on 2013-11-19 22:18:00 UTC
Link to this
A lot of RPs can teach you pretty bad habits for fiction writing, in terms of style, shortcuts taken, the considerations you have to make when writing on your own vs. making a post other people will be replying to with their own part of the story, etc.
-
Shame most of the RP's I've been in were Pokemon... by
on 2013-11-19 19:20:00 UTC
Link to this
But yeah I get what you mean (and my second pair of Agents will probably include a Pokemon trainer)
-
Taking my PG hat off a minute. by
on 2013-11-19 11:22:00 UTC
Link to this
Mostly because, as Phobos was the one to flag up a few problems last time, I think it appropriate that he decide whether you've adequately fixed them. But I can still offer comments, right?
-Your agents. I was going to ask why James called himself Apollo, but your sample answered that. I quite like Kelly's description - particularly that she was actually injured in the Battle of Manhattan. Her traits seem to come nicely out of being a daughter of Apollo; I'm pretty sure the canon ones have displayed all of those characteristics, so I can't really say you're overloading her!
-Your sample I only read a bit of (another reason I've got the Hat off). I like your worldbuilding and general narrative. My two negative comments are:
--Commas. You still need more of 'em. And I know at least one of your betas occasionally runs into the same problem. ;) Actually, you could simply solve it by altering your sentence structure, but... you have things like this: 'In the past few years a group of seven Powered, called the Guardians, had formed and cleaned out any Powered...' That reads, to me, like the role of the Guardians is to form Powered and then clean said Powered out. It's a clumsy phrasing; either 'a group... had formed, and cleaned out', or 'a group... had formed. They had cleaned out' would work better.
--Your dialogue. I actually spent a page or so unclear what timeframe we're in here. You go from fairly colloquial ('It’s good to see that you could make it') to either stilted, archaic, or formal ('May I enquire as to what that device you had over your eyes was?') and back ('Cool'), without really nailing any of them. I'm not sure what you were aiming at, but I think you missed. As a single example, a casual speaker would render that first quote as 'I'm glad you could make it' - the fact that he can see it is implicit in the fact that, you know, he's there. It could be 'It's good [that] you could make it', but people don't tend to use the passive voice in dialogue: we prefer to attach our own reactions.
Oh, you also have a bizarre verbal quirk: when the Powered are introducing themselves, about half of them begin with 'So, I'm [name]'. I've never heard anyone who talks like that - is it a regional thing?
Moving on...
-The badfic. I don't really know what to think - I don't have the energy to plough through to the plot. But Angry Percy is Randomly Angry.
One thing I do note is that the author claims to have recently(?) revised pretty much the whole thing. You may want to check whether this is still the version you think it is.
Ehm... I'm not sure any of my comments were particularly useful there. Good luck?
hS -
Answers by
on 2013-11-19 14:05:00 UTC
Link to this
Overall thanks
-I had fun trying to create Kelly and not make her too powerful or anything, I must have gone through half a dozen or so different deities before I settled on Apollo as her father, so thanks.
-On commas. Great, more of them I can hardly wait :p. I see what you mean though.
-Right, I think parts of it have become more and more formal as it goes through each Beta check and I haven't paid as much attention as I should have to how it actually sounds overall, preferring to stick with it as it sounds better to me when I read through it.
-It's more of a personal thing than a regional thing I think.
-Gah, I didn't realize it'd change so much, last time I checked on it (week and a half ago or so) it wasn't being revised, although this time I made a list of different badfic I could do before deciding to try and spork that one so I'll have to go back to the list and pick a different one I suppose.
Once again thanks
Storme Hawk
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*Busts down door* by
on 2013-11-19 17:28:00 UTC
Link to this
Guys, I'm back! And I brought brownies!
*Seriously, I did not mean to be away from the board this long, but then Thesis happened... at least I'm almost done now!* -
Welcome back Battle-Bruva! by
on 2013-11-22 05:43:00 UTC
Link to this
I am 99Hedgehog, but call me 99. Have a suit of Eldar Mesh Armour as a welcome back gift!
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mesh_Armour#.Uo27JsSkxqA
The Emperor Protects! -
Ooh! Brownies! by
on 2013-11-22 05:10:00 UTC
Link to this
Nice!
*takes a handful and stuffs them into my mouth*
Oh, wait.
Your Welcome Back gift.
Ahem.
Here is a mug (made of generic material) of hot Bleepolate. Bon appetit!
~Autumn -
*Fixing door* by
on 2013-11-19 18:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Gimme one!
*What's the thesis about, anyway?* -
*Passes brownie* by
on 2013-11-20 14:37:00 UTC
Link to this
Thesis is where I go out and get massive bags of dirt so that I can look through them for the seeds of invasive species and see how invasive species spread. I've got finalized edits to do by when I get back from Thanksgiving. :D
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*Munches brownie, squealing in delight* by
on 2013-11-21 00:12:00 UTC
Link to this
Awesome. I learnt about this in my course too. You can remove all the weed plants, but there will still be a chance that new weeds may sprout due to soil acting as seed bank for weeds.
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Gold Star! by
on 2013-11-21 02:37:00 UTC
Link to this
My thesis: lots and lots of dirt. :D
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Advice wanted by
on 2013-11-19 19:34:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm trying to get back to my current mission, and was just reminded of why I put it aside for a break.
At the current point, Indiana Jones and our Sue are going through a poorly-written set of traps. A repeated spelling error is replacing the spikes in the floor with an ethnic slur. My first reaction is to just skip this one -- I don't find ethnic "jokes" of this kind funny, and there's plenty of other spelling errors to pick from. On the other hand, I can't charge for the offense if I don't include it, and I'd really like to charge for this.
Anyone have ideas? -
Well... by
on 2013-11-20 14:39:00 UTC
Link to this
I'd probably do something like have them check the words in disbelief and then say something to the effect of "Well, that's offensive," and then charge for racially offensive spelling errors or something.
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Well, if your agents find it equally unfunny... by
on 2013-11-19 20:03:00 UTC
Link to this
... have them say so. You don't even have to print it if you don't want - I'm pretty sure I had Dafydd and Constance discussing the Goblin King's pet chicken during Clbr__n. People will either figure out what you mean, or just assume It Is Bad.
hS -
Agreed by
on 2013-11-19 20:07:00 UTC
Link to this
You don't have to explicitly state what the spelling error is, even. Just say that it manifests as a racial slur and have the agents comment on it.
-Phobos -
Thanks! (nm) by
on 2013-11-20 12:10:00 UTC
Link to this
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I'm baaaack! by
on 2013-11-20 01:35:00 UTC
Link to this
I haven't been on for quite some time. Years, I think. Anyway, I'm at college now and hoping to get back into the PPC swing of thing. Hello all!
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Hi! by
on 2013-11-22 05:04:00 UTC
Link to this
Welcome back! Here, have a Bleepolate sweet. Enjoy!
~The Bleepolate Obsessor, Autumn -
So glad you could make it back. by
on 2013-11-20 22:27:00 UTC
Link to this
Have some apple fritters and fresh apple cider.
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Welcome back! by
on 2013-11-20 15:57:00 UTC
Link to this
I just got back yesterday myself... here, have a brownie!
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Welcome back! by
on 2013-11-20 13:04:00 UTC
Link to this
We love returnbies just as much as we love newbies, so welcome back, have some chocolate, and remember to leave your sanity at the door.
As a welcome gift, have some music by Berio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8QpVfFaxj8 -
Well met Battle-Brother! by
on 2013-11-20 08:04:00 UTC
Link to this
I am 99Hedgehog but call me 99. We wouldn't have met before. As a welcome back gift, have a D-Scythe!
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/D-Scythe#.UoxstfmkxqA
The Emperor Protects! -
Hello, hello! by
on 2013-11-20 03:26:00 UTC
Link to this
Welcome back!