Hello, I'm Wodan, and I'm a person who likes stuff and fandoms that are quite... weird and possibly disturbing to other people's tastes and preferences. I find this board interesting and would like to join in to see if more interesting stuff pops out during my stay.
P.S. - Please keep the MLP fans and agents away from me. I've had my fill with bronies and ponies.
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No, I am not a god nor a cyborg. by
on 2012-07-12 08:27:00 UTC
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Hi by
on 2012-07-14 22:12:00 UTC
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Hello!
I'm Starshadow. For your newbie gift have ...um... (Rummages through pocket) a knockoff One Ring. -
Hey, welcome back! by
on 2012-07-12 19:13:00 UTC
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Since I believe I've already dispensed my ration of hydrophobic water* to you, can I interest you in a hydrophobic goldfish?
*You did keep it yes? Whatever you do, do not flush it down the toilet. Bad things happened last time it was disposed of this way, and the story about a giant hamster emerging from the sewers of an undisclosed city is most definitely not linked to my hydrophobic water. No sir. -
First plover! (nm) by
on 2012-07-12 17:30:00 UTC
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Re: No, I am not a god nor a cyborg. by
on 2012-07-12 15:56:00 UTC
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Hi, have some fudge!
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Welcome by
on 2012-07-12 12:52:00 UTC
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Or should I say welcome back?
Anyway, I'm reasonably new around here so you probably won't recognize me. So, uh, hi. *Waves slightly awkwardly.* -
Welcome! by
on 2012-07-12 09:50:00 UTC
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Welcome! It is a good idea to read the constitution, as well as start reading the wiki -- they're both conveniently linked to the top of the page. The Original Series is, of course, also a must :) (you can find a link to it in the wiki).
May I ask what are your (not disturbing) fandoms?
Last but not least, have a cup of refreshing green tea. Just don't let the leaves eat you.
(PS: Yes, you'd better leave your sanity at the door.) -
My fandoms? by
on 2012-07-12 11:10:00 UTC
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Well, my not-so disturbing fandoms are:
-Megaman Battle Network and Starforce series
-Pokemon
-Super Mario
-Harry Potter
-Minecraft
-Super Robot Wars : I like it when mechs from diferent continuum band together and stomp evil just by working together.
-Katawa Shoujo : I know that that game is a softcore porn but I'm not drawn to the porn of the game. Its the story and the character development of the game that made me like the game.
Well, I think that those are the fandoms that I can count off and remember as of now that I'm really fond of. The other fandoms that I'm fond of but not listed there can be quite disturbing for others and I wouldn't want to introduce those fandoms to you unless you feel like dying from the inside, rage on its inconsistencies, or claw your eyes out to unsee the body horrors and do the last two actions while you're at it. The only reason why I like them is because of the interesting stories and settings behind it and/or my love tearing on the waifuer's over-the-top fantasies and their bad fanfics by riffing them (feelings police be damned).
Anyway, I've read the PPC Constitution and the Original Series last six months ago. I was here before until I got really busy with my school work. Though some might not remember it, my name back then was 'Aile Harper'. Sorry about not mentioning that in my first post. Though I'm too used in being called 'Wodan' right now that having that old name might be a bit confusing. -
We have that thing called one nickname per user. by
on 2012-07-12 21:34:00 UTC
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And I really don't see what's so confusing about being Aile Harper here. I juggle two nicknames myself and it's really not that difficult.
You're just confusing the people who knew you back then. Also, the fact that you didn't mention that in your original post makes it look a bit like sock puppeting. -
I dunno. by
on 2012-07-13 00:59:00 UTC
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Changing a name after absence is not necessarily frowned on. It's been done before, by people who felt badly about their initial actions, or people who wanted to change their names for whatever reason - sometimes it's more of a sign of growth.
Sock puppeting is really not a word I'd like to see thrown around; she(?) told us straight-off that the name was different. That's not sock puppeting, that's changing your name and not mentioning it in the first post. Let's not jump to accusations, please.
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Permission request *crosses fingers* by
on 2012-07-13 23:36:00 UTC
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So I was turned down the first time I asked for Permission several months ago, and got some concrit. I now ask again, having almost totally revamped two of my three agents' origins. Methinks they make more sense now. Here we go.
Agent bios: http://ajeckaea.dreamwidth.org/2158.html
Writing sample: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6779632/1/The_Road_Im_On
My Twilight/Narnia crossover that I wish to plug: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8071837/1/Sunshine -
Permission denied. by
on 2012-07-14 01:55:00 UTC
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Your behavior outside of the PPC community and in it has shown that you do not have the best intent in your heart, or the spirit of the PPC in mind.
About a year ago, in a thread about LGBT, you publicly condemned several people for being who they are, and for not believing the same things as you. When someone confronted you in private over it, you proceeded to mock them for differences in religious belief and opinion on others after the fact in your LiveJournal.
This was brought to the awareness of another PPCer, who spoke to you about it.
You didn't delete those entries. You just hid them from public view.
You show off proudly several 'exchanges' where you harass and mock people for writing things they like. Your friend, Antaprate took your side and defended you and accused them of flaming you.
Antaprate has her own fanfiction.net account where she proudly declares she holds grudges against people, and that if people wanted to find her Kat "the fanfic slayer" stories, they could PM her for them.
This goes somewhat against her being an agent, doesn't it? There's nothing in your Dreamwidth there, or on your Tripod site saying you don't own that person or her character. This is very odd behavior, because if Antaprate was a real person, wouldn't you want the people reading those things to know?
You are also using Antaprate's character Kat, who was, as previously noted, was used as a Sue Slayer who was sent on a mission from God with all sorts of powers to eliminate characters you decided were Mary Sues.
Sockpuppeting to try and protect yourself from the people you have belittled and insulted for writing fic you don't agree with goes against the spirit of the community. You have denied that you and Antaprate are the same person elsewhere, but here you are using them as a character.
The PPC does not abide of bullying people, or of harassing them. It does not approve of reposting the works of others in very public places to mock them further, which you have done under your alter ego's name, with that intent stated.
It also doesn't approve of pretending to be someone else to continue harassing and bullying people and to defend yourself.
Additionally, you have a multitude of Sues that you are still writing, and you wrote and posted a PPC piece without permission that was not a permission piece. -
Response by
on 2012-07-16 19:09:00 UTC
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I had help writing this response. I was too upset.
Regarding your response declining my request for permisson to write for the PPC, you will of course understand my disappointment. That said, however, I have some concerns about your interpretation of some of my in your response, particularly with the thread-from May of last year that addressed LGBT issues.
While I am not noticeably subtle in many of remarks therein, I think they were frequently interpreted by other respondents in a manner not intended by me, and in language at least as vociferous as mine, which impugned the veracity and source of my arguments, even while they – too often – went on to make counter-arguments with assertions that are in error as a matter of historical record. Note that in this regard I do not attribute this to malign intent on their part, just not doing sufficient homework before responding, a common problem in modern discourse.
All in all, I feel like I have labeled the “bad girl”, even while my similarly intense critics have gotten off scot-free.
My question at this point is whether your concern with my remarks is chiefly with the form (i.e., they are not likely to be confused with diplomacy) or with the content (i.e., they are not politically correct). A number of respondents in the thread in question seemed to talk a good game regarding giving my reasons for my position, but when I responded that they derive from my religious convictions, I received a deluge of opprobrium. The typical response indicated that “you can't force your religious beliefs on others”. Well, if they mean I can't create a theocracy, and force them to believe in the divinity of Jesus, as a matter of law, they are of course correct – that is what the Constitution is for.
On the other hand, if my religious beliefs inform me that, e.g., “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not steal” are universal truths binding on all people, then I retain the right of free speech to advance those positions, those values, even unto law, – that is also what the Constitution is for – regardless of whether it is part of Catholic teaching, Hindu teaching or Epicurean teaching, because the issue is not “where does this idea come from”, but rather “is it true”. Determining whether it is true is destined to be a matter of much political discussion, of course, but the fundamental idea that those informed by religious convictions have just as much right in the public square to advance their ideas is squarely supported in the Constitution, and the those who hold that they do not are anti-intellectual at best, and anti-religious at worst.
The following addresses your concerns point by point. If you still disagree, please respond by citing the actual text of mine that you are referencing so I can be sure exactly what words you are addressing.
“Your behavior outside of the PPC community and in it has shown that you do not have the best intent in your heart, or the spirit of the PPC in mind.
“About a year ago, in a thread about LGBT, you publicly condemned several people for being who they are, and for not believing the same things as you.”
No. I didn’t. I didn’t condemn anyone. What I did was attempt to defend my position against an onslaught of “you’re wrong, you’re stupid, you’re an idiot, the Bible sux.” I notice you don’t mention all the insults I received then. I was condemned. It is not my job as a Christian to be lukewarm about sin.
“When someone confronted you in private over it, you proceeded to mock them for differences in religious belief and opinion on others after the fact in your LiveJournal.
“This was brought to the awareness of another PPCer, who spoke to you about it.”
I’m sorry, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
“You didn't delete those entries. You just hid them from public view.”
Of course I didn’t delete the exchanges. I don’t delete anything. Old fics I’ve never finished, old versions of fics that I’ve edited, edited character profiles on the LJ, all the papers I got in school for the last eight years....I still have them all. I’m a pack rat. I keep everything. Why is this a problem?
“You show off proudly several 'exchanges' where you harass and mock people for writing things they like.”
I never said I was proud. I suppose you feel the same way about fandom_wank, which does the same thing. This is really not fair. The PPC also mocks people who write things they like, but I get attacked for posting conversations with people who drove me nuts? Even when most of them were privatized last October?
“Your friend, Antaprate took your side and defended you and accused them of flaming you.”
Once. Maybe twice. In February of 2011. Why does this have bearing?
“Antaprate has her own fanfiction.net account where she proudly declares she holds grudges against people,”
I am not going to deny that I am Antaprate. It was the name of a spell I created, and I needed an extra account to post my My Immortal project. The “grudges” part came after certain people (not PPCers) decided that, despite repeated attempts to explain to them, they had the ability to inform me why I wrote things. Which was patently false, and really got on my nerves. The only reason I ever denied being A was for the benefit of one single FF user, and I’m pretty sure she figured it out so it’s a moot point. The only time I ever actively socked with Anta was, as before mentioned, in February 2011.
“and that if people wanted to find her Kat "the fanfic slayer" stories, they could PM her for them.”
Yes. I deleted them from FF.net after the above-mentioned people made me angry. I save everything, so I posted them somewhere else. They’ve been gone for a few months now. Why is this bad?
“This goes somewhat against her being an agent, doesn't it? There's nothing in your Dreamwidth there, or on your Tripod site saying you don't own that person or her character.”
I suppose the more obvious “Girl names agent after friend’s screen name” din’t occur to you.
“You are also using Antaprate's character Kat,”
No. You’re wrong. Kat the Slayer is not Kat the Agent. They happen to share the same nickname, sex, and hair color. That is all. A name does not a character make, as many badfic character replacement writers have yet to learn.
“who was, as previously noted, was used as a Sue Slayer who was sent on a mission from God with all sorts of powers to eliminate characters you decided were Mary Sues.”
Isn’t that exactly what the PPC does? God=Flowers, powers and gadgets=DoSAT gadgets, Mary Sues=Mary Sues. I don’t see why this is a problem.
“Sockpuppeting to try and protect yourself from the people you have belittled and insulted for writing fic you don't agree with goes against the spirit of the community.”
I also have another FF account, which I use to favorite Supernatural fics. Is this also socking? I don’t actively sock. A was originally created as an extra account, not a sock. And don’t we all do this, posting PPC missions on LJ and what not rather than with our FF names? Isn’t the PPC about mocking badfic?
“You have denied that you and Antaprate are the same person elsewhere, but here you are using them as a character.”
I repeat the part about the excuse, and the non-denial.
“The PPC does not abide of bullying people, or of harassing them.”
I don’t bully, any more than the PPC does by writing missions.
“It does not approve of reposting the works of others in very public places to mock them further, which you have done under your alter ego's name, with that intent stated.”
Since when is laughing at intentional trollfics is not allowed? This is news to me.
“It also doesn't approve of pretending to be someone else to continue harassing and bullying people and to defend yourself.”
I didn’t.
“Additionally, you have a multitude of Sues that you are still writing,”
Please explain why my characters are Sues. This was not brought up last time I requested Permission.
“and you wrote and posted a PPC piece without permission that was not a permission piece.”
I fully believed I was allowed to do that, judging from the “non-continuity-affecting” comments on the Permission page. And I quote from my entry: “This is not continuity-affecting whatsoever, so hopefully I'm allowed to post it without Permission. If I'm not, leave a message on my wiki talk page and I'll take it down.” I never got a message, so I left it up.
I am disturbed that in order to prove I am a nasty person, you are citing events that happened from nine to seventeen months ago. Why, if they were a problem, were they not mentioned last time I requested Permission? Why was the supposed Sueness of my OCs not brought up then? You never explain why you think my characters are Sues, either.
Last time it was “Your characters’ backstory doesn’t make sense,” and I fixed that. Why the sudden attack?
I have deliberately not commented on things like that for months. Why am I automatically in the wrong? -
Sues by
on 2012-07-17 05:09:00 UTC
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“Additionally, you have a multitude of Sues that you are still writing,”
Please explain why my characters are Sues. This was not brought up last time I requested Permission.
I have now read your fic, "Call Me Katie". I'll be honest with you, if I had come across this fic in a random fic hunt, I would have sporked it. This is one of the most blatant Sues that I have seen in a long time. There is a lengthy Author's Note in the last chapter that says that you wrote most of this in 2010, and you think your writing has improved greatly since then. It makes it clear that this was posted May 31, 2012. No where in that note did you state that you had realized this was a huge Sue, and you were only leaving it up to show your progress, so I consider all decisions in this story as something you currently condone.
First charge: Katie is the uncanonical sister of the Main Character, Coraline.
Second Charge: This is not a new story. This is a rehash of the movie, only with Katie shoehorned in.
Third Charge: Katie steals multiple lines from Coraline and is the one that the doll imitates, until Coraline is only a very minor character in her own canon.
Fourth Charge: Katie's presence drums up drama for no apparent reason other than to make her more important in the story. (The mom's unspecified accident is now Katie's fault, and they spend half a scene arguing over it.)
Fifth Charge: In-line Author's Notes like this one, parenthesis yours. (A/N: this sentence makes me laugh and laugh).)
Sixth charge: Calling the mom by her name throughout (okay, that one might have just fallen under annoying a PPC agent)
Seventh charge: Mothering Coraline
Eighth charge: Changing the mythos of the canon to be able to add your Sue in. There was only one doll. Coraline said so. The doll changes to match the victim. There was no way for a second doll to appear just so you could have your Sue and Coraline enter the Other World.
This is from your Narnia story about Ailena, which is also not labeled as something you have come to regret.
Ailena has cobalt blue eyes, hip length blond hair, ten different names, and an entire paragraph longer than the one I am about to quote explaining how old she is.
Ailena is extremely good with many weapons, seems to turn up at unexpected times and in unexpected places, appears to know some things before they happen, and is particularly close to Aslan. She has been around since before the beginning of Narnia and remains there until the very end. She ages very, very slowly. She is High Queen of Narnia with the Pevensies during the Golden Age, and is never paired with anyone romantically. Never ever ever, through all the years of Narnia. She is also the one who tells C.S. Lewis the stories of Narnia.
Let's take this bit by bit.
Ailena is extremely good with many weapons One of the hallmarks of Sues are that they are good at everything, better than most, with very little effort. You say she's lived a very long time, so maybe she's practiced for thousands of years, but I honestly doubt it.
seems to turn up at unexpected times and in unexpected places, This is a Speshul trait.
appears to know some things before they happen Since this isn't available in canon, this is also a Speshul trait.
, and is particularly close to Aslan. So, she is a personal friend of the canon's deity? Do you see how this is a Sue-ish trait?
She has been around since before the beginning of Narnia and remains there until the very end. She was being shoehorned into a very select group of characters here.
She is High Queen of Narnia with the Pevensies during the Golden Age, and is never paired with anyone romantically. Never ever ever, through all the years of Narnia. This seems to be a recurring theme in your stories, where you retell the canon stories only your versions are better, because they include your characters, who are much better than the canons, and outshine the canons. That is, honestly, the very definition of a Mary Sue.
She is also the one who tells C.S. Lewis the stories of Narnia. This is just. Wow. This character is so important that she told the writer of her world about the world, so he wasn't really writing a story, he was just repeating back what your character told him. The time loop-fourth wall breakage thing here is actually painful. That is a pretty bold claim, and makes this character a huge, huge Mary Sue.
I understand from reading other bits on your LJ that this character is old. I have heard that it is fairly normal to go through a stage of creating Mary Sues (even I can remember back to doing that, I just didn't write them down), but the thing is that you are still writing this character and apparently don't see anything wrong with her. If you can't see anything wrong with this character, then you are not at a mature enough place to write for the PPC, and July was absolutely right in denying you Permission. -
Hm. by
on 2012-07-16 22:53:00 UTC
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I find one of your last points very interesting.
I am disturbed that in order to prove I am a nasty person, you are citing events that happened from nine to seventeen months ago. Why, if they were a problem, were they not mentioned last time I requested Permission? Why was the supposed Sueness of my OCs not brought up then? You never explain why you think my characters are Sues, either.
I'm not going to comment on the last one, as perhaps you should look at your characters. However, you seem to think that your actions are excusable because they happened in the past.
That is not correct. I am under the impression that the reason for your actions not being brought up at your last request was to give you a second chance with regards to this.
You have had that second chance, and things have happened since then. And yet, you have never once taken responsibility for your actions. It is always the fault of somebody else - the big mean world out to get you.
It doesn't work like that.
You have made mistakes.
Mistakes like those have consequences.
Your actions are, quite frankly, immature. The way you lay blame instead of taking responsibility is not a positive trait. You are the one who got yourself into this situation.
Learn to take responsibility. -
A small response. by
on 2012-07-16 20:42:00 UTC
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I just want to address a couple of your points, slightly out-of-order.
"I also have another FF account, which I use to favorite Supernatural fics. Is this also socking? I don’t actively sock. A was originally created as an extra account, not a sock. And don’t we all do this, posting PPC missions on LJ and what not rather than with our FF names? Isn’t the PPC about mocking badfic?"
"I don’t bully, any more than the PPC does by writing missions."
Posting PPC stories on sites other than the Pit isn't sockpuppeting; it's keeping our shared universe within our little group. This is for two reasons. First, because we don't like getting much attention from the internet-at-large, to avoid becoming the focus of trolls and such. The other reason, and the one I believe you're having trouble understanding, is that we do not want to hurt the feelings of badfic authors. We keep our community on the down-low because we want to entertain each other with jokes created from bad writing, not because we want to smear that bad writing in its authors' faces.
The PPC does not bully. The PPC is about finding humor by mocking badfic, not by mocking badfic authors.
"Isn’t that exactly what the PPC does? God=Flowers . . ."
No. No, no, no. A million times no. There is a huge difference between writing a character who takes orders from a fictional board of giant, sentient, speech-capable psychic talking plants in business suits, and writing a character who carries out the will of the actual, real life God.
Do you see how claiming to be doing the work of God Himself while critiquing a fan fiction is problematic? -
No more problematic... by
on 2012-07-16 21:16:00 UTC
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...than JealousoftheMoon's Canon Keepers on FF. They do the will of Aslan and Lewis.
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For the record-- by
on 2012-07-16 21:53:00 UTC
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I find claiming to follow the will of a dead man and a fictional lion-deity to be very problematic, seeing as neither of them is actually around to communicate their will to anyone. I have to wonder how much you thought about that comparison before posting it. It's not very favorable to God.
~Neshomeh -
As Anna said, by
on 2012-07-16 21:40:00 UTC
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JealousoftheMoon does not write for the PPC. They aren't our responsibility, they don't speak for us, and anything they do can't potentially reflect badly on us.
And no, they don't do the will of C.S. Lewis. Mr. Lewis is a real (dead) person, and Jealous and her characters do not spork badfic in his name, regardless of whether the author says they do or not. -
Gah, I hate to get sucked into the flames again... by
on 2012-07-16 21:22:00 UTC
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That's a different universe from the PPC and plays by different rules.
The Flowers are only equivalent to God if you agree that God has a twisted sense of humour and likes to play Pokemon cards with the universe.
If you don't grasp this, you're missing a lot of the humour of the PPC. -
At the risk of sounding like a complete and utter douchbag.. by
on 2012-07-16 14:27:00 UTC
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I say give him another chance. And I say this as an LGBT girl with absolutely no religion at all.
The PPC *is* about second chances. (Well, when it's not about humorously burning fictional locations that should not exist to the ground...)
If he can be a decent, civil human being, let's not shoot him down without hearing what he has to say first. You savvy? -
On Second Chances by
on 2012-07-16 16:06:00 UTC
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Having looked at the original thread (and thank you Tranum for posting the link - it's always better to know what's being referenced) I feel the need to agree with JulyFlame's decision. However, this does not mean Jacer is being denied a second chance. JulyFlame didn't try and demand Jacer leave the PPC, or say 'You will never be able to write for the PPC'; she simply explained the reasons she was making the decision that Jacer would not be given Permission at this time. There has been a further comment (not from JulyFlame) implying that Jacer should leave the community, but in no way was it a demand. The second chance - one wherein Jacer proves her(?)self able to interact with the community in a constructive manner - is and always has been there.
Of course, the situation isn't quite as simple as it seems from JulyFlame's summary (naturally - it's a summary of the reasons Jacer's being turned down, not a reasoned argument seeing both sides and showing her working! Nor should it be, in this context). Holding the opinion that Jacer deserves a second chance - however that is interpreted - is perfectly valid, and definitely not a reason for anyone to call you a 'douchebag'.
And since this isn't a summary, my working:
In Jacer's defence:
1/ The LGBT thread was over a year ago, which is a long time in the Interwebs. I haven't been following Jacer in between times, so I don't know how she(?)'s behaved since.
2/ The explosion originally came about because Jacer stated her(?) opinion and people disagreed vehemently - and some (by no means all) disagreed with her right to express it on the Board. As a rule, saying 'You're wrong' (which both sides did) is going to cause tempers to rise. Saying 'I disagree with your opinion' is far more conducive to polite discussion.
3/ While Jacer did get progressively more vehement in support of views which were being shouted down - possibly to the extent of being deliberately offensive, I haven't read every post so that's a guess - I did see several responses which I would class as flames. One person (I forget who) declares Jacer a 'miscreant', which, er, is a direct insult serving no purpose but to deride the other. So getting increasingly emotional and 'fighting back' would seem only natural.
On the other hand, and causing my opinion to fall out the way it does:
1/ Jacer's original post used not just loaded words - 'disorder', while an accurate statement of belief (I assume), was always going to cause controversy - but also straightforward insulting ones - 'disgusting'. That's also a flame - it may not have been targetted at anyone specific, but it's still a flame.
2/ At certain points in the debate, Jacer said things that were, um, objectively wrong (such as the implication that while Jews and Muslims have immigrated to America, Catholics are native to the country), and refused to retract them. That's not debating in good faith, and it doesn't seem to be mirrored by other participants (again, that I've noticed).
3/ There is the matter of the entire rest of JulyFlame's summary. Without access to the original data I can't comment on the specifics, but I trust JulyFlame to be truthful. And someone who sockpuppets, flames (my word, not hers) and currently writes Mary-Sues is not someone who should be writing PPC missions - regardless of conduct on the Board.
So, two - no, three final points.
1/ Everything I have said above is my opinion and perception of the situation. I may be wrong. I may be mistaken.
2/ I would like to invite Jacer to involve her(? sorry, no one can agree...)self in the PPC community and give people a more positive opinion of him(? hah, changed it around)self by his(?) conduct and presentation.
3/ I'm going to quote my wife, from a post she made about a Board crisis waaaay back in 2003 (the Thalia Incident, specifically):
I've been a regular at the PPC board for a fair few months, not long compared to some people, but a while, and this is the only time I have ever seen flames, except by trolls. Even when there are trolls, we rarely actually flame. The only time I have ever seen regulars get really upset at other regulars, or other 'names'.
*sadly* O, shiny happy PPC board, what have they done to you?
But really, the board has been different lately. It's not just these cute little flames, it's something I've been noticing for a while. We're more likely to correct each other's grammar, and in an annoyed tone, or to get upset during debates. I've been afraid something like this was going to happen, and now . . .
EDIT: Okay. The fighting has calmed, but I have one more thing (just one, I promise) to point out.
hS signed a post to margin, hS, who is hoping not to get an angry response.
-_- No one should feel like that on the board--no one ever has, to the best of my knowledge, before this. The PPC board was/is a sanctuary, and I pray that it stays that way.
I'd been there maybe two months and she thought I shouldn't have to worry about being put down for my opinions. The best part is? I didn't get angry responses. So let's keep the conversation calm here in the future(TM), too.
hS... who is hoping not to get an angry response -
This exactly. by
on 2012-07-17 00:39:00 UTC
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I agree with JulyFlame's decision, entirely.
I also agree that "No, we are not giving you permission to add to the PPC continuum" is not equivalent to "No, you are not allowed in the PPC ever again," and the former is correct, while the latter is not. Second chances, because where would any one of us be without them?
A theme that's been brought up here before is growth, and maturity - as writers and as people - and how part of our purpose is to help each other grow and mature. The PPC, I think, is a good place to do that, and a good bunch of people to do it with. It'd be cool to see that continue to be the case. -
I'm sorry, but I have to add something. by
on 2012-07-16 17:48:00 UTC
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I do not feel safe with Jacer around.
This is for a few reasons, the aforementioned thread being one of them. Another one being an event that happened quite some time later, shortly after I had returned from a brief hiatus.
I'm not going to go into much detail about what happened, because I was really not in a good place when this whole thing went down and I would kind of not like to go back to that.
Jacer made a reply to a thread on the Board on her FFN account (said thread being about Coming Out Day). I found this through a permission request she made around the same time. Several back and forth messages ensued. Throughout the whole thing, it felt like Jacer was belittling those involved for disagreeing with her position. This wound up being a... trigger for the "not a good place" bit I was talking about.
In short, I do not feel comfortable with Jacer's behaviour, nor do I feel safe with her on the Board. -
The rest of July's post by
on 2012-07-16 16:47:00 UTC
Link to this
I am currently working on a post (and have been for the last few hours) giving the context that you are missing. You are right that the situation isn't as simple as it came off in the summary.
Thank you, also, for the bit about not needing to worry about being ridiculed for politely saying that someone deserves a second chance. I cover that in my post, but it can't be said enough, I think.
-Phobos, who is not actually sure if Anne Nonymous is a screen name or a clever use of anonymous. -
Okay, I didn't have all the context here and I'm sorry. by
on 2012-07-16 17:18:00 UTC
Link to this
Okay. I'm sorry for just saying that without all the context; it *does* sound like this person is not ready to be writing missions.
I just know I have said some things I regretted online, and if my character was to be judged by them, you'd think I was an immature, angry person who has no business writing for the PPC. So... I'm prone to err on the side of mercy, because Dumbledore, I'm not.
Thank you for explaining this. Without the facts, I wasn't entirely sure what was going on, and I know certain PGs can be a bit... harsh. So I just wanted to make sure that justice and mercy were both in the balance here.
Also: Anne Nonymous is a clever use of Anonymous. I didn't quite want to stir up more drama. I know I have a reputation for... butting heads with certain other Boarders, and I didn't want my words to be overshadowed by my screen name.
Fudge, now *I'm* sockpuppeting. Well, I'm done here. Thanks for helping me get what was going on. -
D'aww . . . by
on 2012-07-16 16:11:00 UTC
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Wasn't I adorably passionate when I was fourteen? Bless my cotton socks . . .
-- Kaitlyn, who avoids reading her years-old blog entries as a general rule. It's safer that way. -
*nods sagely* by
on 2012-07-16 03:53:00 UTC
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This. -
Woah, it can be this harsh? by
on 2012-07-15 07:49:00 UTC
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I don't know how serious PPC can get. I kneel before all your professionalism. And sorry for interrupting the judgement.
-
Harsh may not be the best word. by
on 2012-07-15 21:30:00 UTC
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Especially when you weren't there.
For reference, here is the thread that is being referred to: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=199610;article=211150;title=PPC%20Posting%20Board;pagemark=975 -
Apology to our QUILTBAG members by
on 2012-07-17 05:47:00 UTC
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on a personal note, want to say that it is not okay to flame people by calling them a disease, a disorder, and/or disgusting. I had basically ignored that discussion from May 2011, and now I wish I hadn't, so I could have told the people hurt by those things that I support them as human beings who should have the same rights as other human beings. I am straight, married with three kids, and a Christian, so I was not a target of that thread, and I am sorry to everyone that I should have spoken up for sooner. I believe you shouldn't be discriminated against and targeted because of your gender or sexuality.
-
Since I was there during the LGBT spat... by
on 2012-07-15 17:22:00 UTC
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I can tell you with a great amount of certainty that it wasn't pretty. That one spat was enough for me to say to myself "I don't care if his person becomes the next William Shakespeare, I'm still not going to be interested in reading her stuff if that is the attitude she's going to have about other people's opinions".
I don't always agree with July, but I completely believe that she made the right call on this. Further, I also feel she made the right call using the tone she ultimately did: there are some things you can't ignore when putting your foot down, and there are times when people need to be strict. -
Well... by
on 2012-07-15 12:29:00 UTC
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I've been linked to... what happened... with Jacer a while back. It wasn't pretty, to say the least, and TBH, that's not someone you want around.
-
What 'it'? Upholding our integrity? by
on 2012-07-15 09:35:00 UTC
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Just because we don't do what we do for money, but simply for our own enjoyment, does not mean we should be excused from the basics of civil behavior. If anything it means we need to hold ourselves to that standard of our own free will. It's a higher bar, not a lower. July's decision was based on a failure to live up to those standards. Speaking as a long-time lurker, I for one agree with her wholeheartedly.
Treating anyone trying to uphold the community's spirit of integrity with such flippancy is juvenile and disrespectful.
Also, newsflash: We select PGs because we trust their judgment. A PG made one. Don't belittle it. -
Ah. So it's fine for you to uphold *your* integrity... by
on 2012-07-16 19:02:00 UTC
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...but when I tried to uphold mine I get booted.
-
It's not that you're standing up for your beliefs, Jacer. by
on 2012-07-16 21:11:00 UTC
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You have a right to your opinion, no matter how vile it may be. (Note that I am not calling your specific opinion vile.)
What you do not have a right to do is childishly insist that your particular stripe of religion/politics/etc. is the only correct one when people present counter-arguments, without presenting data to back it up.
From what I can see of the thread, that's what you did. And I'm really sorry, but we don't want flame wars in the PPC. You single-handedly started one.
~~~~
On an... unrelated note. I saw some of the things that you posted in the QUILTBAG thread, and... I'd like to try to help you.
I'm bi. I once thought as you do. I.E., that being anything other than hetero/cissexual was something dirty and wrong, to be avoided. I hated myself for having these feelings and wished they'd go away. And then... the girl of my dreams convinced me that I wasn't a bad person for feeling like this.
We've been together for more than a year now, and... I'm happy. I am seriously happier than I ever was when I was being all self-hatred-y.
If you are QUILTBAGish in some way, as you implied, and you're experiencing this... think it over. Pray about it. Find friends that will be supportive.
You can be gay and still be Christian. It does get better, I promise. And the entire Board will be here for you. -
*Eyebrow raise* by
on 2012-07-16 20:32:00 UTC
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I have to ask if belittling and alienating an entire group of people is really a part of your integrity you're set on upholding.
-
Re: *Eyebrow raise* by
on 2012-07-16 21:06:00 UTC
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There is a difference between saying "You're wrong" and belittling. You don't seem to know that.
-
Re: *Eyebrow raise* by
on 2012-07-16 22:54:00 UTC
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On the contrary, I am very much aware. However, telling someone that what they're doing is a sin is something I very much identify as bullying because of the connotations that come with sin. If you would like me to I can lay out my reasons for such.
-
Whether there is or not... by
on 2012-07-16 21:49:00 UTC
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The PPC Constitution has something to say about telling other people they're wrong. It's in the very first rule, in fact. To quote the smallest relevant portion:
"You don’t have to agree with anyone, of course, ... but no telling other people that their opinion is WRONG."
So, saying "You're wrong" and belittling people are the same in that neither one is allowed in the PPC.
~Neshomeh -
One small point. by
on 2012-07-17 05:06:00 UTC
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While Jacer most certainly did exactly that (telling people they're wrong) in the thread last May - so did many other people in reply to her. None of them were called on it in that time and place, and many of them were before she'd started saying it.
As I said above, there are quite a number of factors that make her actions more understandable - but without excusing them.
hS -
That last is important. by
on 2012-07-17 17:02:00 UTC
Link to this
Part of my issue with all this has to do with logical fallacies. In this case, just because somebody else last year got away with the same bad behavior doesn't mean that behavior is okay right now, or that we should excuse anyone for it right now, which is the impression I'm getting from Jacer: "How dare you accuse me of bad behavior, because those people did the same thing." That's not actually a relevant argument. While we should perhaps be talking to those people at some point, too, they aren't the ones asking for Permission in this thread, so their behavior doesn't bear on the discussion at all. Bringing them up is, consciously or not, just an attempt to distract us from the actual topic of discussion, which is Jacer's behavior. That's the fallacy.
Anyway... if it were just about one thread that got out of hand last year, I guess I'd be more in favor of lenience, but it isn't. If nothing else, we're seeing a repeat of some of the same issues just in this thread: when confronted with disapproval, Jacer goes "Why are you telling me this? You can't blame me, because I can't be wrong, because I don't agree with you that there's a problem. Look at those other people instead; their behavior is bad." Lots of shifting the blame and refusing to take responsibility for her words and/or actions. Without an intent to change, there can't really be a second chance, however much we'd like to offer one.
~Neshomeh -
I'm sorry. by
on 2012-07-17 14:30:00 UTC
Link to this
You don't seem to get it. At all.
Jacer has hurt people.
The time to be reasonable about this passed roughly halfway through the LGBT thread. That was the point where we should have stepped up and made it clear that she was not welcome.
Instead, we gave her a second chance.
She messed that up too.
We still have allowed her to stay.
This should not have happened. Do you remember DoctorHello? I seem to recall getting rid of them fairly quickly after they offended and scared a number of people. What's so different about Jacer?
I have called the PPC my home for a year now. Right now? I'm honestly not sure I'm comfortable with doing that. We have allowed somebody like Jacer, who has hurt and offended so many people, to stay. And then?
One of our most respected members just seems to... brush it off. Brush off that people have been offended. Brush off that people have been hurt. Brush off that she has continued to do this.
I'm sorry if you think I'm being irrational. But you know what? I'm not a robot.
You want me to be rational about this? You come back and tell me that next time you've put a noose around your neck for dealing with people like her and the shit they do for your entire life.
I do not feel comfortable or safe in the PPC with Jacer around, nor do I feel comfortable or safe with your response to her. -
I apologise if I seem to be brushing anything off. by
on 2012-07-17 17:30:00 UTC
Link to this
As I have stated several times, I'm working solely from the information available to me. That information has not - until you posted this - contained any intimation that Jacer had caused any more problems since May of last year. I was not aware that 'she has continued to do this'. As I have also said, I know nothing about Jacer other than what I'm being told here.
(No, sorry, you had already mentioned it in passing. I missed that. I apologise)
The fact that there have been further incidents - major or not - puts a completely different spin on things. Of course it does. Someone who did something once is a completely different case to someone who keeps doing things.
So, again: I'm sorry for appearing to brush things off. I was working from less information than you. I'm sorry.
hS -
An addendum to this. by
on 2012-07-19 14:20:00 UTC
Link to this
With the information I now have, that there have been further incidents following the only one mentioned when I made my original post, I would say this:
Someone who has ignored repeated requests to stop doing something offensive - has responded, as seems to be the case, with objections that they were being mistreated by being asked to stop - isn't trying to be an active part of the community any more. They're simply trolling - regardless of how long lies between those incidents. And the PPC does not tolerate trolls. She should leave - as I suspect she has done.
hS
(PS: If you're wondering about the timelapse here - yeah, I was too upset at the responses made in various parts of this thread to post something useful. Now I've calmed down a little. ~hS) -
I am about to say a suckitudinous thing. But read this. by
on 2012-07-17 14:55:00 UTC
Link to this
Before I say the sucky thing: I am really really sorry that you felt the need to resort to suicide because of people like that. *hugs* I hope things get better for you. Hate sucks.
...If you ever need to talk, I'm here. Sciencefair200@gmail.com. Email me and I'll listen.
And a quick caveat: I do not agree with Jacer. In any capacity. At all, whatsoever. I am bi and I am agnostic leaning towards atheist, I think Jacer is wrong at best and her opinions, at worst, are dangerous, and I've been on the recieving end of some flak from people like that, too.
Here is the sucky thing: she's not the people who hated you. She's not making the Board unsafe.
I realize that's a hard distinction to make. I mean, she's saying the same kinds of things as they did. But she's a person on the internet. If you don't like what she has to say, you don't have to read it.
It hurts, I know. But the entire Board isn't like that. Most of us love ya (in a completely platonic way, bro/sis, honest) and we just want the best for you.
If you feel like you have to leave 'cos of this, I get it. I'd flee anything that reminded me of something that... awful. But. But but but. We are here for you. No matter what.
*Hugs again* -
... No. (NSFW language) by
on 2012-07-17 17:07:00 UTC
Link to this
Basically, what Tray said. Triggers do not care that Jacer is 'only' words on a page. Triggers do not care that 'all' Jacer is doing is typing words that happen to form into a pattern that can be deciphered into phonemes that coalesce into words that connect into sentences that are understood to mean "Gays are mentally ill, trans* are mentally ill, they're wrong and against the natural order and will suffer for eternity after they die". Triggers are a reaction to memories that those words bring up, and since Jacer does not say in her subject line "Oh yes I'm saying things that could trigger those who have been bullied for being gay" no one can know that they could be triggered until they are triggered. And by then? By then it's too ...ing late.
I define a trigger, from what I know of them, as when the natural fear/disgust/discomfort with something unpleasant gets to such a point that the triggered person becomes very much unable to function when confronted with the unpleasant material. It brings up thoughts, it brings up memories, that have incredibly powerful and unpleasant emotions attached, and those emotions are overwhelming. If these things aren't warned for? If these things are wherever? They cannot be avoided.
Triggers don't listen to logic, either. Take Jacer. Jacer has said some pretty vile things. Jacer, to those who have read her posts where she posts said pretty vile things, has become associated with pretty vile things. Even if you don't look at what she says, glancing down the board to see the latest posts will find her name if she has posted, and the memories associated with her name are triggering. That is how she makes the Board unsafe, at least in my mind. That and the possibility of her replying to a perfectly safe thread and spoiling the whole thing, because she's a rotten apple, and rot spreads. Everything else is tainted with the unpleasantness, and if the PPC Posting Board is associated with unpleasantness in someone's mind then they will find somewhere not associated with unpleasantness.
Right. Hopefully I haven't put words in anyone's mouth. -
Okay, enough's enough. by
on 2012-07-17 17:44:00 UTC
Link to this
Since I'm determined to uphold my own personal integrity here, I've got to tell you to knock it off with the personal insults now. Maybe my sensitivity is increased at the moment, but "she's a rotten apple" seems pretty insulting, given the implication that the very cells that make her up are unsound. Like I said to Tray, please try to contain yourself. You're not helping by descending to this level.
Mayhap this string of comments had better be left alone from now on?
~Neshomeh -
I apologize. by
on 2012-07-17 17:49:00 UTC
Link to this
I overstepped with that metaphor, and will work to word my thoughts in a way that avoids fallacies. Thank you for pointing out my error.
I also agree entirely on leaving this thread to fall off the front page, and will shut up about this topic now. (I might even see if I can find some cheerful substance to make a new thread about, help this on its way...) -
It'd be nice if it worked like that. by
on 2012-07-17 15:09:00 UTC
Link to this
But it doesn't. At all.
Y'see, there are these things. They are called "triggers". Things that set you off due to past traumatic.
Homophobia of this calibre and how it was presented by Jacer was one of those things for me.
See, just because it's words on the internet that I can choose whether to ignore or not doesn't mean it's not a trigger. It does not make it any better. It does not make it safe.
And you know what? When I think somebody is wrong, I'm going to tell them. I am not going to stand by and let somebody ruin the one place I have ever felt safe and accepted.
So, no.
She is one of the ones who hurt me. She is making the board unsafe. And no, I am not going to ignore that. -
You're not helping. by
on 2012-07-17 17:32:00 UTC
Link to this
Specifically, "And you know what? When I think somebody is wrong, I'm going to tell them."
If what you mean by that is "I can tell people their opinions are WRONG if I want to," then I'm going to point you at the PPC Constitution, too, and tell you "No, not here you can't." The fact that you were hurt in the past doesn't give you the right to be disrespectful, and it doesn't give you immunity from the rules. You're still responsible for your own words and actions.
I understand you have strong feelings about this, but try to corral them so you don't inadvertently end up supporting the side you're opposing.
~Neshomeh, advocating personal responsibility for all parties. -
Can't tell people their opinions are wrong? by
on 2012-07-17 19:57:00 UTC
Link to this
First off, I feel your post shows an uncharacteristic lack of tact. If you had a problem with Tray, I think it would have been prudent to take it up in private when things have cooled down first. I think Tray would deserve at least that.
Second off, article 2!
'It’s one thing to say "I don’t agree with your opinion" to a person, but entirely inappropriate to say "You’re such a flipping idiot for thinking that, you flipping moron!”'
I will have no qualms about calling a bigot a bigot, and saying their opinions are wrong, wrong and WRONG. I don't care about the Constitution, even if it explicitly barred that, because then the Constitution too would be wrong, wrong, wrong! Not all opinions are equal. This pretense has already killed off the political discourse of an entire country.
I am aghast that we are having such a hard time doing what should amount to a simple "You are wrong, you are a hateful person, and you do not belong here." July's original response was fine, and it should have been left at that, and Jacer and her sockpuppets should have been flailing in the silent wilderness.
But somehow we're at each other's throats, because there's some kind of moral high horse competition going on, where people are tripping over each other to get to be the John Adams for this Boston Massacre. Except this isn't the Boston Massacre; there are no two sides to this coin; there is no grey area; there's just a bigot.
If we tolerate intolerance, tolerance will be destroyed. Paraphrasing Karl Popper. -
May I defend myself, or will that just make it worse? by
on 2012-07-18 13:53:00 UTC
Link to this
For now, I'll just say that I will accept if you'd all prefer to be angry at me. I regret what happened, and it was not a result I anticipated or wanted.
~Neshomeh -
You don't need my permission. by
on 2012-07-18 16:33:00 UTC
Link to this
I am not angry with you, and my intent was not to attack you or orchestrate one against you. My argument is laid out in my post.
And I did assume you didn't mean for this to be the result. We all have lapses of judgement. -
To clarify... by
on 2012-07-18 17:24:00 UTC
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What I mean is, are the people down here in this bit of thread still interested in my side, or have I been so firmly marked as "defending Jacer" that defending myself will count as defending her, too. I think there's been a massive misunderstanding on that point, so I'd like to be told there's some hope of sorting it out.
~Neshomeh -
Re: To clarify... by
on 2012-07-18 17:55:00 UTC
Link to this
As far as I'm concerned, no, defending yourself will not be seen as defending Jacer. I am highly disappointed in you, but I can understand that. As July already pointed out, it seems you just fell into the same trap that a few other members of the community did.
-
Correction to my own post: by
on 2012-07-17 20:38:00 UTC
Link to this
Yes, Article 1 does indeed state that:
"You don’t have to agree with anyone, of course, and stating your own opinion is encouraged, but no telling other people that their opinion is WRONG."
I guess I'll have to join Tray and leave, because I will not abstain from calling out a homophobe. I think this narrow interpretation ignores the spirit of the entire Constitution, though, which is meant to be inclusive and protect the PPCers from insults and wrongdoing, and also to be mature.
I consider myself a mature person with a brain, and I won't smile and nod if people spout opinions that are truly and utterly wrong. Mind you I would only reserve this for the most odious kinds of wrong. -
Well, this is it. by
on 2012-07-18 03:46:00 UTC
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I stayed out of this mainly because I was painfully aware that if I tried entering the discussion, I'd say the wrong thing and make things worse. I didn't have the full facts, I knew nothing about Jacer, and I didn't feel that jumping in would do anything good- not to mention, I know mine is not exactly a voice that carries weight here. I'm not good at situations like this, especially ones that escalate.
But having read all of this, I've come to a decision: I too will have to leave, because people here are defending a rampant bigot and denying others their right to tell someone 'Your opinion hurts me and I don't want it here because it makes me feel unsafe'.
If this is not remedied, how can I stay? How can I possibly remain in a place where I can't defend myself, my orientation and everyone else who supports, shares and has similar orientations against a homophobe- or against anyone else with a similarly terrible opinion? How can I stay in a place that would give Jacer another chance after she hurt Tray so much?
It's been nice, but I guess it's over now. -
All I have to say about this (NSFW language) by
on 2012-07-18 01:43:00 UTC
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...really, hS? Really, VM? Really, Nesh?
Really, guys?
I can barely tell you how utterly dismayed this makes me. Honestly, I thought all three of you were better than this.
At the risk of sounding self-centered, I need to allude to something that happened in the IRC rather recently. And I need to allude to it, because it's a part of what frankly pisses me off about this.
To put it simply, July yelled at me for setting off and not shutting up about a trigger of hers relating to certain acts that will not be mentioned here. She used her right to tell me off with fairly harsh language, to the point where she basically told me 'you don't have the right to comment on X'.
And frankly? In hindsight I'd have to agree with her. Someone told me that I made them feel used during that conversation. I'll not get into specifics here, but... well, if you're feeling used, then that speaks to some kind of being really emotionally hurt, and it's hard to stay rational in a situation like that. This is especially so, since I was also being an uncaring, self-centered, and entirely arrogant douchebag when other people started calling me out on it. I should not have acted the way I did when they were telling me 'drop it, you're triggering stuff', and I definitely shouldn't have brought up the trigger in the first place. Thinking about my behavior now makes me sick, and if I could take back my behavior then I would do it in a heartbeat.
And barely two months after that incident, people are telling a person who is using their god-given right to call people out on their shit not to use that god-given right to call people out when they say things that actually hurt them?
*facepalm*
Because really, what else can I say to that?
I still think July did the right thing. And seeing Jacer's reply to July's post only convinces me further that July made the right call. And now, here's the part where I get brutally honest with certain people:
Jacer, I think you should've left the PPC a long time ago. Frankly, after that thread, I wouldn't have cared if Jay Thorntree and Acacia Byrd themselves gave you permission: I would never have read any of your missions, I would never have agreed to cowrite with you, and I would have refused to have anything to do with you. The things you were saying were that vile. I see you haven't changed one bit since the LGBT thread, since you're still pulling the victim card and still being a bitch about that kind of thing. In other words, I have never liked you. And now, hearing that you had hurt Tray-Gnome in the way you did makes that so much worse. And that seals the deal for me: you have ensured I am never going to like you in any sense of the word ever. I don't care if you cure cancer: I'm never going to like you. You've essentially ruined any chance at likability you might've had, at least from me. And from me, that says a lot.
And frankly, I don't want to be part of any organization in which Jacer's behavior is condoned in any way. My two month sabbatical from writing PPC missions and hanging out on the IRC was meant for me to figure out how I could improve myself for the community exactly because I didn't want to keep doing the same things Jacer here continues to do. It's a shame, then, that I'm extending it to a permanent sabbatical because the PPC has allowed someone like Jacer to stay.
It's been a good run with the Protectors of the Plot Continuum, but this is where it ends for me. -
I will leave as well, if it comes down to it. (nm) by
on 2012-07-18 00:08:00 UTC
Link to this
-
Speaking up, because I really feel I have to. by
on 2012-07-17 23:21:00 UTC
Link to this
I've been watching this thread explode. And I've avoided saying anything for the most part, because I hate getting caught up in fights, especially on the Board. And my voice does not ring loud in any discussion, I'm quite aware of that, when other more respected and vociferous people are speaking.
But I've read all the stuff that's been said, and I am stunned that PPCers are standing up for Jacer, and defending her. This has clearly alienated a large number of Boarders already, and quite frankly I'm ashamed that people I respected are not respecting clear, strong feelings of others.
If this can't be resolved - preferably with some kind of safeguard for people not to be humiliated and driven to suicide because of their beliefs - I don't think I'll be sticking around. I was driven to the brink of suicide four years ago, and I know how terrible it feels to be mocked and shamed to that point.
And this rips me up, because the PPC made my life a lot better, and saying goodbye will be pretty damn devastating. I hope it won't come to that.
Please, guys, listen to what you are being told. -
Agreement by
on 2012-07-18 09:29:00 UTC
Link to this
I agree.
The geek social fallacies make people think that you cannot tell someone off for their opinions, no matter how hurtful those opinions are.
And there are people who present "You're not tolerating my intolerance! You're the intolerant ones!" as though that's any kind of reasonable argument.
It isn't.
This kind of thing goes beyond 'hey, we should be nice here.' This place can't let itself become a place that allows that kind of bigotry to flourish in people using our name.
If it's not 'nice' to say so, so be it. I'm a whole lot more concerned with doing the right thing by people who are discriminated against and often treated badly than I am with being nice to someone perpetuating bigotry against them. -
Aye by
on 2012-07-17 23:47:00 UTC
Link to this
It really does show that there is a gross problem in the system when a bigot such as Jacer is defended by people. Not just that, but when someone calls them out on it, they are smacked down. It is only worse when the person doing the calling out has been hurt by that person, driven to the brink of suicide by their words, even moreso when they gain the courage to stand up and shout back.
Therefore, I'm with Cassie and Artell as well. I don't think I'll be sticking around if this is what is allowed. -
Yes... by
on 2012-07-18 09:43:00 UTC
Link to this
TW: Violent analogy
Telling someone to be nice only goes so far. If that policy of 'be nice' extends into helping to silence the victims of a bigot, it has been taken too far. It has been twisted around into a hollow shell of niceness, ignoring the actual point of 'being nice.'
It is akin to watching someone be stabbed, and telling them that their shouting for help, yelling that they are bleeding, is being a bit too loud - the other person wasn't loud, so they must be in the right! -
Speaking up, buecause I really feel I have to. by
on 2012-07-17 23:20:00 UTC
Link to this
I've been watching this thread explode. And I've avoided saying anything for the most part, because I hate getting caught up in fights, especially on the Board. And my voice does not ring loud in any discussion, I'm quite aware of that, when other more respected and vociferous people are speaking.
But I've read all the stuff that's been said, and I am stunned that PPCers are standing up for Jacer, and defending her. This has clearly alienated a large number of Boarders already, and quite frankly I'm ashamed that people I respected are not respecting clear, strong feelings of others.
If this can't be resolved - preferably with some kind of safeguard for people not to be humiliated and driven to suicide because of their beliefs - I don't think I'll be sticking around. I was driven to the brink of suicide four years ago, and I know how terrible it feels to be mocked and shamed to that point.
And this rips me up, because the PPC made my life a lot better, and saying goodbye will be pretty damn devastating. I hope it won't come to that.
Please, guys, listen to what you are being told. -
This was inappropriate. by
on 2012-07-17 18:49:00 UTC
Link to this
Whether you like it or not, you just fell for the same thing as hS, VM, and AnnaBee. You noted outright the logical fallacy in a previous post. "Bringing them up is, consciously or not, just an attempt to distract us from the actual topic of discussion, which is Jacer's behavior. That's the fallacy." Talking to someone about their behavior at some point does not mean chastising about it in public, and certainly not after they've exposed themselves and have made it clear they do not feel safe. Tray has attempted to kill himself because of Jacer. He has alluded to this in this very thread.
Behaving in the 'right manner' only goes so far and can only be maintained so far, especially when the other person makes you feel cornered. If at any point he should be talked to about his behavior, it is not anytime right now with relation to this thread in public. -
... by
on 2012-07-17 17:36:00 UTC
Link to this
So. The one time in my life I stand up for myself. For anything. I'm not allowed to do so.
... this.
... the constitution.
... all of you.
I'm leaving. -
I am so, so sorry. by
on 2012-07-17 20:34:00 UTC
Link to this
Tray- I am really sorry. I know that won't make it better at all but I am really really really sorry.
... I didn't know. I wish I had or I wouldn't have said any of the things I'd said.
Please, forgive me. -
I'm really sorry. by
on 2012-07-17 15:13:00 UTC
Link to this
...Truly, I am. I don't know what you've been through, I don't know what you're up against, and I. Am. Sorry.
*hugs*
...Okay. Well. Is there anything I can do to help? I can try to auspistice between you two as much as I can.
And just so's you know, we all are standing by you. -
You are kind of missing the point. by
on 2012-07-17 15:29:00 UTC
Link to this
While your sympathy is appreciated, it's not what I'm saying this for.
-
...I understand. (TRIGGER WARNING: CHILD ABUSE.) by
on 2012-07-17 15:37:00 UTC
Link to this
The problem is...
...I completely get where you're coming from. I get that it's a trigger for you. But what you're saying might be hideously offensive to somone who, say, was molested by someone of the same gender when they were a kid, and can't see for the life of them that All Gay People Aren't Rapist Pedophiles. It might be a trigger for them to even hear about gay people getting married. Would it be fair for them to say that you're not allowed to talk about gay people or be gay, because gayness is a trigger for them?
In order for people to have free speech, you have to allow people to say WHATEVER THEY WANT. And sometimes that means letting them say really terrible things. But truth will win out in the end, okay? Keep your chin up.
Jacer seems to have vanished anyway (knock on wood!) so this might be a moot point. -
No. You really don't. by
on 2012-07-17 15:53:00 UTC
Link to this
See.
I was "molested by someone of the same gender when I was a kid".
It doesn't work like that.
You do not know what you are talking about.
Drop it. Now. -
Dropping it now. by
on 2012-07-17 15:56:00 UTC
Link to this
I am very very sorry. I did not mean to bring that up.
Dropping. RIGHT now.
~~~
.... I wish there was something I could do to help. I guess all I can give you is my good wishes for the future. -
Saying "Your're wrong"... by
on 2012-07-16 21:37:00 UTC
Link to this
...implies you have the higher ground and are backed by something (preferably by the Law).
You can say you disagree with the other's position in matters like this, but never, never say that the other is in the wrong. -
Sometimes, yeah. by
on 2012-07-15 09:33:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't think anyone likes it when it gets this way, but yeah. At the end of the day, permission means that we're giving someone license to say "I am the PPC!" - we're a little bit careful about that one, because it casts a shadow on all PPCers, past, present, and future.
-
Happy birthday JulyFlame! by
on 2012-07-15 09:40:00 UTC
Link to this
For anyone who didn't know where the name came from, there should be no questions now.
I wish her a marvellous birthday, but have nothing left of mine to give, she's already stolen my heart. -
Happy Birthday! by
on 2012-07-19 02:42:00 UTC
Link to this
Hope it's a good one.
-
Happy birthday! by
on 2012-07-17 05:28:00 UTC
Link to this
I had meant to say it in person on the chat, but I hope your birthday was fantastic! July birthdays are also the best, but I'm not biased or anything like that. >.>
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Happy Birthday, JulyFlame. :) by
on 2012-07-16 22:00:00 UTC
Link to this
And aw, you two are so cute.
May fortune smile on you both. -
Happy Birthday! (nm) by
on 2012-07-16 17:52:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday, July! (nm) (nm) (nm) (nm) by
on 2012-07-16 11:36:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy birthday! by
on 2012-07-16 04:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Have a rainbow!
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Happy birthday! by
on 2012-07-16 04:11:00 UTC
Link to this
*Gives special birthday hat that has lit candles on it*.
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Happy Birthday, July by
on 2012-07-16 03:59:00 UTC
Link to this
Apologies for being so late and not saying it in person. I've been holed up in the theatre all day with no access to internet.
Anyway, I hope it was a good one.
-Phobos -
Happy birthday, July! (nm) by
on 2012-07-16 03:22:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy birthday, July! (nm) by
on 2012-07-16 00:38:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday! (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 22:47:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 22:10:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday. (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 21:57:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday, July! (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 21:09:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy birthday! by
on 2012-07-15 19:39:00 UTC
Link to this
Have a triple-chocolate (chocolate with chocolate icing & chocolate chip) cupcake! And don't forget to blow out the candle!
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Happy birthday, July! by
on 2012-07-15 19:09:00 UTC
Link to this
I'd offer you cake, but nobody ever wants it... I think it's the fish-shaped solid waste and the sediment-shaped sediment...
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Happy birthday ma'am! (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 18:56:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy birthday to our very special JulyFlame! by
on 2012-07-15 18:49:00 UTC
Link to this
Hugs, cake and music all around!
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Happy Birthday, July! (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 18:35:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday, July! by
on 2012-07-15 17:25:00 UTC
Link to this
Here, have some variations on Happy Birthday for good measure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYA7X-ZPcyc -
Happy Happy Birthday! by
on 2012-07-15 15:38:00 UTC
Link to this
Congrats on surviving another year longer! I made a cake just for you!
*Shoves cake in July's face*
It's chocolate with bleeprin icing, delicious right? -
Happy birthday July! by
on 2012-07-15 15:35:00 UTC
Link to this
Have an awesome flavored cupcake and a birthday hat!
-
Happy birthday! by
on 2012-07-15 15:05:00 UTC
Link to this
Congratulations on surviving another year in this insane asylum, oh wise and powerful July! Have a couple pads of stickers: gold star and dinosaur.
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Happy Birthday July! by
on 2012-07-15 14:44:00 UTC
Link to this
Hope you have a great day!
Seeing as I can't give you real gifts, have these gifs instead!
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Happy Birthday! (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 14:38:00 UTC
Link to this
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Happy Birthday! by
on 2012-07-15 14:27:00 UTC
Link to this
Ave a Generic Gift TM!
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Happy Birthday, July! (Also, d'awwww.) (nm) by
on 2012-07-15 14:20:00 UTC
Link to this
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Re: Happy birthday JulyFlame! by
on 2012-07-15 12:26:00 UTC
Link to this
Happy birthday, July. Many happy returns (is that how you say it? English is so confusing sometimes).
-
Happy Birthday by
on 2012-07-15 11:57:00 UTC
Link to this
Well, I suppose I'll wish you a happy birthday as well July. Every celebration of the anniversary of one's birth should be happy, so yours should not be that different.
Have some Internet munny, as well as my thanks for helping me fit in more and open my eyes to the fact that I acted like a jerk during my early days here.
So yeah, happy birthday July.
-
Agent plans by
on 2012-07-15 15:19:00 UTC
Link to this
I have been making plans for agents for about four weeks now by my calculation, so I thought I would put my ideas for a duo here for your perusal. Here they are:
Eagrus Khan - he is a bit character who was rescued from a Lord of the Rings badfic and subsequently recruited. He has a great dislike of bad spelling due to the fact that he is an Esterling (rather than an Easterling, being a victim of bad spelling himself). He looks much like an Easterling, but an odd smell of fruit tends to follow him around. He is a trained swordsman by background but being from a fantasy continuum is still struggling to get to grips with technology.
Cyba Zero - she was initially from World One but ended up in HQ when a pair of agents temporarily mistook her for an escaped Shapeshifter!Sue. The real Sue was caught and Cyba decided to join the battle against the Sues. During training she suffered a mishap with an old and malfunctioning disguise generator, leaving her with the body of a Borg drone. Fortunately her mind was untouched and she did not mind the physical change too much (after recovering from the shock). Having never been linked to the hive mind, however, she is still trying to learn how to use her implants - with much hilarity along the way. The change also left her irresistibly drawn to the colour red, leaving her extremely vulnerable to distraction. Being in disguise, while removing all species-specific abilities of her new natural form, does not stop the red issue. As such, Eagrus has to remain vigilant whenever the colour is around and keep Cyba focused. -
Okay, a few questions focusing on Cyba. by
on 2012-07-16 20:59:00 UTC
Link to this
I am presuming she is supposed to basically be you, yes?
How was Cyba mistaken for a Sue in the first place? What was she doing that led to them believing she was the Sue? Agents have the ability to test for this. Were they not doing their job properly? Or was she acting Sueish enough that they felt they did't need to check? And if it was the second, why would they allow her to go with?
Why is your Agent Cyba Borged? You say that it was due to a disguise generator accident, but that's a 'how'. I'd like to know why you decided to go with this route.
What advantages does this give her over your average human/humanoid agent? You say she can't control the implants, but I would presume that she does gain control over time, and there is also the fact that some of it is innate- like the phaser fire immunity and the strength.
Does she get any disadvantages?
Why are you deciding to have this set up beforehand, rather than in the progress of your spinoff? This is the sort of thing that makes up a character's progression and a storyline. This is interesting stuff, so why have it happen before and then remove all of the most interesting aspects of it from your spinoff completely?
Another thing I want to ask you to consider: Why do you want your agent insert of yourself (presuming she is intended to be you) to be a Borg and thus have the advantages Borgs get? If it's to make her unique or to give her something to make her other than 'normal human' you should reconsider it.
Normal humans (or humanoids with no special abilities) should be the majority of PPC agents; Jay and Acacia were normal humans and did their jobs swimmingly. Trojie's a normal human. Miah's a normal human (or was, last time I checked). Constance was, and was utterly terrifying regardless.
I can make a long, long list of agents that have no special abilities or advantages that do a bangup job without them. -
Answers to your questions by
on 2012-07-17 12:15:00 UTC
Link to this
The Sue in question was a particularly nasty Shapeshifter!Sue. Cyba and her doppelganger were proving difficult to catch, so the agent pair used their spare Remote Activator to open a portal in front of where Cyba and the Sue were running. This portal went to a spot just in front of a wall in HQ, meaning that Cyba and the Sue both ran into it and knocked themselves out. It was at that point that the agents managed to use their CADs and tell the difference.
Of course, this could be changed.
In answer to the why question:
1. Firstly, Borg was my nickname at university for being a perfectionist, so it seemed appropriate.
2. I can lever a lot of humour with her weaknesses. The transformation was not without its errors (the generator was faulty after all). She gets helplessly distracted by anything red, which is a major weakness. Some of the mission challenge lies in Eagrus keeping her focused rather than wandering off following something red. She won't attack it or anything like that, but following behind in a trance could very well get her noticed by non-canons if her partner is not vigilant.
3. Having some strengths that actually do not necessarily do much good thanks to the associated weaknesses has a lot of humour potential.
4.I intend to take the normally accepted mechanics and turn them about for comedy. For instance, think of picking up a glass of water when you do not know your own strength - you are probably going to get wet. I also cannot imagine sleeping standing up is very easy... Cyba is NOT going to get an easy time of it. She will probably learn control eventually, but it does not have to be quick or without its slip-ups.
5. Remember Eagrus is not exactly well versed with technology. Having a partner who is part technology is going to get...interesting - in the amusing sense of course.
6. I admit that I like cyborgs. However, that means I know how to make humour out of them. I intend to keep the reigns tight on any levels of power. For a start, Eagrus would NOT be happy without his fair share of bad spelling busting!
Her advantages are non-existent outside HQ - disguise generators are very handy in that regard.
Disadvantages: the red issue, as per above. This does NOT go away when in disguise. Also, her learning curve: trying to get used to a new natural form is bad enough without changing forms through being in disguise. Expect some clumsiness on missions!
As for why to do it beforehand, a lot of my humour ideas revolve around the effects of the transformation. I guess some of it is also my eagerness; it could be saved until later if necessary.
Thanks for the cross-checking. I hope that answers your questions. -
Slight change by
on 2012-07-19 12:09:00 UTC
Link to this
Thinking about it further, the accident could wait a little while. After all, a faulty disguise generator could cause other, smaller problems before blowing completely - such as giving a mostly correct disguise with a slight glitch etc. That way I could work up to things. Thank you JulyFlame for provoking that line of thought...the internal ideas generator is off again with even more laughs promised. Goody this is going to be fun!
I still need to decide what to write as a writing sample though... I was thinking maybe a quick comedy sketch or something; would that work? How important is length? I read the Wiki, but I just want to clarify further to be sure. -
I'm no PG... by
on 2012-07-16 14:30:00 UTC
Link to this
But I really like them. Eagrus sounds like he has great potential and Cyba sounds freakin' hilarious.
"By my calculations- RED RED RED RED RED"
"Cyba... focus..."
"RED RED RED RED RED" -
Thanks by
on 2012-07-26 17:49:00 UTC
Link to this
Sorry about the late reply - I've been somewhat distracted by recent events.
However, I did want to say: thanks for the compliment! -
Addendum: Department by
on 2012-07-15 15:25:00 UTC
Link to this
I would probably place them in the Department of Floaters, although the Department of Mary Sues and the Department of Technical Errors would suit them as well.
-
AHAIRQL Round One, Match Two by
on 2012-07-17 02:19:00 UTC
Link to this
LADIEEEES AND GENTLEMEEEEEEN! Grab your novelty foam fingers, pop some popcorn and put in your mouth guards, 'cause it's time for the first game of the second season of the All-HQ Australian Indoor-Rules Quiddich League!
*pause for cheers and applause*
Tonight's matchup is between Team Westilldon'thaveanameyet and Team Best of the Best! Two titans of combative sporting events, two colossi of... okay, most of the agents on these teams are pretty fresh, but they can Quiddich like nobody's business! And by 'Quiddich' in the verb sense, I mean 'knock each other senseless.'
Read it here!
For more information on how these two teams came to be, refer to here for Westilldon'thaveanameyet and here for Best of the Best. -
Epic (nm) by
on 2012-07-17 20:06:00 UTC
Link to this
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Oh, boy! More AHAIRQL! by
on 2012-07-17 17:42:00 UTC
Link to this
This was absolutely hilarious. Reminds me of the old reports from 2008, now those were good days... :P
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Absolutely hilarious. Well done! (nm) by
on 2012-07-17 02:54:00 UTC
Link to this
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Very nice! by
on 2012-07-17 02:45:00 UTC
Link to this
I laughed through this whole thing. The Cafeteria was a good venue choice.
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Brief Rant About Team Quizzes by
on 2012-07-17 11:46:00 UTC
Link to this
Recently at college there was a team quiz in English Literature. Now, as someone who remembers details of the various continua, I was very happy about this.
However, each team had to think up a question to ask the other two teams. This is where there were Problems.
First, no-one (apart from me) knew the name of the main antagonist from Watership Down.
Second, me and the person who set the question were the only people who knew Remus Lupin's middle name. (Which is more a sign of my geekery.)
Finally, the actual annoyance. Another team asked: What is the name of the White Wizard from Lord of the Rings? I pointed out there were two answers and was treated as though I was completely insane.
I just thought you guys were the sort of people who would find this either amusing or annoying. -
Re: Brief Rant About Team Quizzes by
on 2012-07-18 06:22:00 UTC
Link to this
Indeed. I find this immensely funny. It's either that or crying. Because... Ten to one they've only watched the movies or something, and not the extended version.
The answer, of course, is Radagast :P -
Ouch by
on 2012-07-17 19:00:00 UTC
Link to this
Yup, those things suck. I have a tendency somehow wind up on the crazy team, also.
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Hmmm... by
on 2012-07-17 12:09:00 UTC
Link to this
I think that those guys who asked that question need to read more books.
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Hmmm, indeed by
on 2012-07-17 12:24:00 UTC
Link to this
The A Level English Literature class need to read more books ... there's something a bit odd about that.
A Levels are chosen by the student, so typically the Film Studdies students watch a lot of films, the Photography students take a lot of photos, the Hair and Beauty students turn themselves orange and the English Literature students ... don't read books. -
Bleh... by
on 2012-07-17 14:20:00 UTC
Link to this
They took a course that requires them to read most of the time... And those guys are too lazy to read nor pick up a good book, yet they took it? Man... that's screwed up in many ways possible. Why would they take that course if they don't read all the time?
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I guess they just don't read fantasy? by
on 2012-07-17 14:32:00 UTC
Link to this
But, even so, it does seem really odd.
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On Love and Tolerance by
on 2012-07-17 15:25:00 UTC
Link to this
In light of some of the recent kerfluffles that have been going on on this, our beloved Board, I have something I hope everyone will read.
http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html
The title is provocative, yes. But the message is something everyone needs, whether you're Christian or not, whether you're gay or not.
*attempting to avoid sanctimony here because I'm not perfect either*
Please. Just... read this. It'll be the best thing you've ever done. -
Please stop. by
on 2012-07-17 22:21:00 UTC
Link to this
I know you're trying to help. I know there's a lot of tension, and you want it to go away and for all of us to just get along, and friendship and happiness and love and tolerance.
But triggers*, they exist, and when something like this happens, the best way to respond is not to go "I know this thing is specifically what triggers some of you, but look at the bright side!" Which is kinda what this amounts to. The best way to end this, generally, is to apologize, sincerely, and Let. It. Go.
Seriously. I've done this, in the past, after arguing or fighting with friends. You want things to go back to normal, but you also feel horribly guilty, so you desperately try to smooth things... like this. But this really doesn't help. Sometimes things smooth over with time, and sometimes they warp beyond repair and never heal. And that sucks - but either way, once you've apologized, you have to wait. Doing stuff like this, though it might help you feel better, doesn't help the people you're ostensibly apologizing to. So - please don't.
And, lastly - you are kinda preaching to the choir, here, in a big way. The people who will be causing problems by attacking and harassing QUILTBAG folks around here... are the people who are not going to read this, or are going to reply to it angrily no matter how much sense it makes. So by posting this stuff in the wake of a thread like that, you're sort of... just stirring things up. And sort of being a bit twisty with giving lip-service to Neshomeh asking the comment thread to calm down by replying to it up here. Just, generally - I hope with all my heart that this situation never arises again, but in the case that it does... don't do this. Please.
*What Trigger Warnings are, and Why they are Essential. -
That... was touching. by
on 2012-07-17 18:57:00 UTC
Link to this
Things like this really make you think.
I.
I don't know what else to say.
I'm not even sure. *nervous laughter*
I'm just...
...
...yeah.
-
I see blue. by
on 2012-07-17 20:43:00 UTC
Link to this
For some odd reason, the links on the Board are now blue instead of red.
Did you change anything, or my browser just went nuts? -
I see red on family PC, blue on laptop (nm) by
on 2012-07-18 08:28:00 UTC
Link to this
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I'm seeing red again now. Weird. (nm) by
on 2012-07-18 07:38:00 UTC
Link to this
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Re: I see blue. by
on 2012-07-18 06:20:00 UTC
Link to this
I see them as red. And the link highlighting feature was grey from the beginning for me.
(I'm using Firefox 14.0.1 on Xubuntu 12.10.) -
The link highlight is yellow. by
on 2012-07-18 18:15:00 UTC
Link to this
But, from what I gathered, the new post highlight was yellow too in the beginning, until it was changed because, heck, it was yellow. That could have messed up the CSS.
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*shrug* by
on 2012-07-17 22:24:00 UTC
Link to this
It's a rather new issue, though. Could it have something to do with the fact that the post highlight color (which has once been yellow) has been changed to gray?
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I remember seeing them blue for a while by
on 2012-07-17 21:44:00 UTC
Link to this
But now my PC has changed them back.
Maybe I saw them blue on my netbook? Because I have Google Chrome on this PC, and InternetExploderExplorer on my netbook.
Or it might be a refresh thing.
I don't know, hehe. -
Red by
on 2012-07-17 21:43:00 UTC
Link to this
Mine are still red, too.
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The links are still red for me by
on 2012-07-17 21:21:00 UTC
Link to this
So I don't think any of the Board settings have changed...
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Try refreshing. by
on 2012-07-17 21:03:00 UTC
Link to this
The Board switches between the two every refresh or nearly every refresh. Or it was.
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Re: I see blue. by
on 2012-07-17 20:45:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't think it's your browser. I'm seeing it too.
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As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-17 23:21:00 UTC
Link to this
I am leaving the PPC. Probably forever.
I first joined a couple years back, roughly May of 2010. Stuff happened, and I wound up never posting outside my intro thread. Then, in October of 2010, I came back.
It felt good to be in a community that was so welcoming and warm, especially since at the time I was living away from home at a boarding school full time, and had just moved halfway across the province.
After a couple of months, I figured out what felt good about it.
I felt at home. I felt like I could trust the people here.
I am the first to admit that I have problems. I've gone on hiatus many times in the past to deal with whatever was going on with me offline. I'd generally return in a week or so.
This time is different.
I no longer feel at home. I no longer feel safe. I no longer feel wanted.
It's back to how I was when I first came here.
Somehow, the PPC has reached a point where it is too accepting. Where people like Jacer, who offend and hurt people are allowed to stay. In her Permission thread below, I linked to the original thread that started all of this.
Ever since that thread, I have never felt safe when seeing Jacer's name anywhere on the Board. I do not feel safe with somebody who is so firmly against me as a person.
Look, I get it. Second chances are important. But you know what? When somebody hurts somebody else, and hurts them badly, they better damn well earn that second chance.
Jacer did not.
She showed no signs of remorse, or even of acknowledging that she hurt people in that thread. Nor did she when it got brought up again now.
That is not a sign of needing a second chance.
She should never have been allowed to stay. None of the current mess would have happened if somebody had stepped up and said "No. Hurting people is not okay here. Especially not if you show no signs of feeling the slightest remorse for what you did."
And yet she was.
She was allowed to stay on, given a second chance.
Which she used. She was given a third chance, which she used.
She was given a fourth chance.
A year later, and she still shows no sign of caring in the slightest that she wasted her first chance.
This should never have gotten that bad.
Why is it that we immediately told DoctorHello that they were not welcome in their intro thread after what they said? To the point where that thread no longer exists?
What is the difference here?
Why is it, that when I say "No. It is not okay that you hurt people" I get told "NO. YOU MUST RESPECT THE OPINIONS OF THOSE THAT HAVE HURT YOU."?
From people I trusted and respected, no less?
I'm sorry, but I cannot stay in this mess.
I cannot stay in a place that not only allows people to continue hurting others, but yells at the ones who have been hurt.
The PPC is welcoming and friendly to the point where you cannot even think of telling somebody off.
And in the end, it is no longer a safe place.
Goodbye.
ADDENDUM: Letting people like Jacer stay is just as bad as taking part in the bullying.
Please learn something from my leaving, although I honestly doubt that will happen.
I'd like to say it was good knowing you all, but the past few days have kind of ruined that. -
I'm lost by
on 2012-07-19 02:20:00 UTC
Link to this
So, what exactly did Jacer say? I'm not the best person to evaluate people who get Permission (Tried twice, and failed. Currently working on the, "Sure to fail since Third-Time-Lucky is Bull" attempt). But I digress.
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Re: As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-18 12:32:00 UTC
Link to this
I didn't feel I understood the situation well enough to speak up, but I would like to say now that you will be missed. I'm not going to try and convince you to stay, though I and plenty of others would like you to, because if a place no longer feels safe, you should be able to walk away.
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Re: As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-18 06:36:00 UTC
Link to this
I am sorry to see you leaving, Tray, and I agree with melancholicPoet -- I should've said something.
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Re: As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-18 03:53:00 UTC
Link to this
Tray... I won't say 'please stay', especially since I probably won't stay either. What I will say is that I always thought of you as a friend, and I am incredibly sorry that you're leaving. I'll miss you.
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You know what... by
on 2012-07-18 13:06:00 UTC
Link to this
This needs to be expanded.
Tray, you've always been one of the people I liked the most here. I love how every time I got on the IRC you'd glomp me to say hello. I love how you were always so nice. I loved that story you told me about how you and your college friends drove that git who wouldn't stop playing dub step to tears with the power of the nyan cat over a couple of days. I loved that weird conversation we had with Plat about being tied up with duct tape. I love how you were always such a good person.
In short: not only are you someone I'm damn proud to call a friend, you're also someone I'm proud to share my sexual orientation with.
Whatever happens, just know that there's more than a few people here who'll always count you as a friend, OK?
AV -
If you too are leaving... by
on 2012-07-18 07:48:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm very sorry to see people leaving, but I guess it can't be helped. That permission thread was a mess.
Writing that interlude with you was fun. If you truly leave, I want to say you goodbye.
I do hope we will see again somewhere on the Net, someday.
One last thing, may I "adopt" Grace Leon as Sergio and Corolla's official plane mechanic?
Goodbye to Tray and all the other ones who are leaving, too. -
Re: If you too are leaving... by
on 2012-07-18 12:55:00 UTC
Link to this
At this point, I haven't decided. It's probable that I will leave, but there's a chance that I won't. But yeah, it was fun working with you, and I hope I'll see you somewhere else as well.
If I do leave, sure, go ahead. She'd probably be better off with you than with me. -
Re: If you too are leaving... by
on 2012-07-19 11:43:00 UTC
Link to this
Well, I can't comment much because I've been somewhat quiet, but for those of you who are leaving: good luck, be well and may good writing always follow in your wake.
(Here's hoping that last part of my sentence didn't sound urple!) -
Re: As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-18 03:29:00 UTC
Link to this
“In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
-Martin L. King Jr.
I regret not standing up with you when all of this took place. -
Re: As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-18 01:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Tray, please don't go. I don't know if you're going to respond to this, or even look at it, but if you do then please hear me out.
I can't say that I understand what you're feeling, I've never experienced it. But, you're my friend, and I don't want you to go.
It isn't fair that one nasty person ruined the PPC for you, and I think a lot of us feel the same.
It wasn't okay for you to be told to stop voicing your opinion because it wasn't nice. It wasn't okay for this whole thing to have gotten this far. And it isn't right that this is the result of it.
I wish there was something more I could do, or something that I could say to convince you not to leave.
Please, come back, though. You shouldn't loose something so great because of one person. -
Re: As some of you may have noticed... by
on 2012-07-17 23:57:00 UTC
Link to this
I... understand where you're coming from. I can't understand why this is enough to make you leave, but then I am not you so I cannot say what your breaking point is. I simply know you as a very fun person to be around and talk to on the IRC, and I... I hope that, if Jacer leaves and stays left and we as a group can figure out the best way to deal with someone who says the things she does and not tolerate intolerance... I hope the chance of return that that 'probably' allows, I hope that return happens.
For now, I'm glad you're taking steps to keep yourself mentally sane, and safe, and alive, because I'd prefer that, I'd prefer knowing you're OK even if you're somewhere far away from this corner of the internet, to seeing you around here but knowing you're not comfortable and that this place upsets you.
Thank you for taking the time to explain to us why you are leaving. -
And, for the record? by
on 2012-07-18 00:07:00 UTC
Link to this
This whole mess has made me feel just a little bit miserable when I think about this Board. I don't think that's what the PPC is about, guys...
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Constitution amendment proposition by
on 2012-07-18 03:13:00 UTC
Link to this
People have been seriously hurt these past few days. In fact, we're seeing some brilliant people leave because of recent events. After Tray-Gnome, I've seen Herr Wozzeck also declare his intention to quit and people like JulyFlame, Artell, Cassie, and Maslab are thinking of leaving. I haven't been around long enough to properly know them, but when oldbies are thinking of leaving, we seriously need to stop and take a good long look at ourselves and what we're doing.
We've made a mistake. Mistakes happen. We absolutely need to learn from this, or else we forfeit any chance of improving this community.
In the light of recent events, I believe we need to amend our Constitution so that we can maintain a safe, fun, and respectful environment.
Looking down at the mess that has become Jacer's Permission thread, it is clear that there is confusion when it comes to the "Don't say the other person's opinion is wrong" rule. Having free speech is nice and all, but I firmly believe there is a line that we must not cross when saying/posting things. Some might argue that this is not true free speech, but I think this is a manifestation of common sense.
The opinion rule works when it's something small such as "Person A doesn't like Person B's taste in fandoms" but breaks down completely when it's "Person A has a major problem with a facet of Person B's identity".
We need something bigger to deal with these types of situations. Remember the DoctorHello incident? He was rejected so hard his intro thread was purged from existence. Why?
It's because we practiced Zero Tolerance. DoctorHello shocked the rest of the community with his sick joke and we came down hard on him.
I propose that we include a subsection to the first rule in our Constitution: that we will not tolerate any sort of discrimination, persecution, or diffusion of harmful opinions. A single offense is completely unacceptable and will be punished. If Zero Tolerance works with bullying in schools, why can't it work here?
As for second chances... I don't know. I haven't worked out that part yet. Zero Tolerance might seem harsh and extreme, but from my point of view it's the most effective way of staving off crises like this one.
I don't want the PPC to break down and end. Not like this. -
I'm glad to see this happening here. by
on 2012-07-25 23:43:00 UTC
Link to this
And the suggestion below looks really good.
It's great that the PPC has managed to get along for so long with people just generally being good people, but I guess we're large enough now that we need guidance on how to be decent to each other.
~Puck, formerly Mystia -
I fully support this by
on 2012-07-20 21:46:00 UTC
Link to this
Considering recent events on the board, and the fact that even before this, we've lost people to bullying, we could stand to have a rule like this. Astral Void's proposal looks pretty good to me, honestly.
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Seconded. by
on 2012-07-23 00:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Changes must be made to create a better environment for others to thrive and grow.
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This is only happening NOW? by
on 2012-07-19 02:33:00 UTC
Link to this
The PPC's been, what, hoping for goodwill? That should've been added the SECOND the PPC became public, not as an afterthought after so many people decide to quit.
...
Sorry... It's just... how could this only be thought of now? I don't mean any offense to Jay or Arcadia, but surely someone must have thought to add a "No discrimination or racism on the Board or in the IRC" rule. -
No, because you see... by
on 2012-07-19 03:04:00 UTC
Link to this
Back in the early days of the PPC, we had enough collective common sense and inherent respect for each other that such a rule was completely unnecessary. It was not a hope for goodwill; it was an expectation of goodwill, and that expectation was met for almost ten years. That is why it is only being said now...because only now has it become necessary.
I don't think Jay would be offended, though I can't say as much for "Arcadia"... -
Oh. by
on 2012-07-19 03:05:00 UTC
Link to this
What do you mean, by putting, "Arcadia" in speech marks? I thought she retired.
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*sigh* Really? by
on 2012-07-19 03:11:00 UTC
Link to this
http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/Acacia_Byrd
This is a sad day for the Department of Technical Errors... -
Me Idiot. Me Need Clarification. by
on 2012-07-19 03:14:00 UTC
Link to this
Since the last thing I saw was them not doing Fifty Shades of bullshit.
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That expectation of goodwill that I just talked about... by
on 2012-07-19 04:25:00 UTC
Link to this
...includes being able to take criticism--especially of a spelling error--gracefully. Otherwise, the PPC runs the risk of being hypocritical for dishing out literary criticism but not being able to take it.
On that note, let me say that this does not seem to be the right place for you. You are trying very hard to get Permission, but are not able to find your way around the most basic thought processes of the PPC:
- You make an unnecessary post that bumps a topic off the first page, instead of scrolling down to read a topic yourself. You outright state that you know someone's discussion will get bumped off, but you post anyway.
- When asked to read the aforementioned topic, you ask for a link, instead of taking the initiative to find the link on your own (still on the main page, if I'm not mistaken).
- When you find your way to the discussion of the "PPC tension," the first thing you do is assume that for years, your fellow Boarders had been thoughtless and ignorant, instead of assuming that we are intelligent and respectful of our peers.
- You compound this by misspelling the names of one of the original PPC agents.
- When someone gives you a subtle hint about this misspelling, you don't catch the error, and you don’t try to figure out what was wrong by yourself.
- When that person abandons subtlety and shows the error to you bluntly, you resort to being snide.
- You give constructive criticism to a fanfic author in which you misspell the word "grammar." You proceed to tell the author how much you respect him or her at the same time that you cry "Spork the B****!" on the Board.
- Instead of being fully prepared in your first post for Permission, you are ignorant of basic PPC procedure, such as getting a beta.
- Instead of accepting feedback with gratitude, you mask your defensiveness behind questions every time someone points out a mistake.
- This is all beside your apparent ignorance of what, exactly, constitutes other people's intellectual property.
To sum up: you cannot navigate your way around the PPC without your hand being held at every turn. And if someone does take your hand with the slightest bit of reluctance or exasperation, you retaliate by being rude and/or swearing.
This does not demonstrate goodwill or good faith in your fellow Boarders. It does not show that you possess the fandom etiquette and literary skill necessary to participate in a group geared toward fanfiction critique. Please be on your way; you are not a positive addition to our community. -
*Sigh* by
on 2012-07-19 04:41:00 UTC
Link to this
OK, yeah, I made a load of mistakes.
I just... wanted to help a little by solving the DeviantARt problem.
I am sorry for being a plagarizing, snide, jackass, douchebag, hack, fool, idiot without a decent spellcheck, thief.
I'm sorry that all of this was blown out of proportion, and... I wish the PPC the best of luck in the future.
I'm just sorry it ended like this. -
Just stop, please. by
on 2012-07-19 04:08:00 UTC
Link to this
You've completely missed what's happening, you've not read the Board, and that's twice in one evening that you've used language well outside the norm for the Board. Please, stop posting for the rest of the evening.
If you want to talk about it, I'm on gtalk - Techno.Dann@gmail.com. I'm also on IRC - Dann on Sorcery -
Fine. by
on 2012-07-19 04:10:00 UTC
Link to this
I only stopped a flame war on DeviantART.
I'll be in the IRC. -
Agent mini detected! (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 03:09:00 UTC
Link to this
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Oh, she's a Mini? Meep. (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 03:10:00 UTC
Link to this
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I agree with this wholeheartedly (nm) by
on 2012-07-18 23:13:00 UTC
Link to this
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Doctor Hello? by
on 2012-07-18 18:50:00 UTC
Link to this
What exactly happened with Doctor Hello?
Also, the issue with Jacer... I agree with Tungsten_Monk on "diffusion of harmful opinions". Jacer was just mainly hurting others' feelings, not abusing others. Of course, I only lurked and saw the feelings being hurt. I think we can't just kick out Jacer because of what (s)he thinks , unless (s)he personally took it to hirself to privately message others with hurtful stuff.
For reference, I have been a boarder before, I have read the Constitution, and I just kind of left, though not because of something like this. -
I am sorry, but I don't trust you. by
on 2012-07-18 18:58:00 UTC
Link to this
This is a serious issue, and you've chosen to hide your identity and not reveal who you are.
We've have repeatedly had anonymous people come to Jacer's assistance and defense every time she has been part of serious issues, and every time they claim to be or have been boarders. This is, I hope you can understand, a problem.
She has already publicly admitted that she sockpuppets, so for what reason should we trust you, who hides their identity to not be trying to be Jacer defending herself? -
Wait wait wait. by
on 2012-07-18 18:13:00 UTC
Link to this
"Diffusion of harmful opinions" is a dangerously open-ended idea. Putting language like that in the Constitution is pretty much giving Person X carte blanche to shut Person Y down by claiming Y's opinions are causing X pain. Who's to say what's a harmful opinion?
Yes, we should not tolerate immaturity and abuse. But there's a line between "abuse" and "my feelings are hurt."
Putting this kind of thing in the Constitution sets a dangerous precedent. I move that rather than amending our rules, we deal with these things on a case-by-case basis. We're mature adults, for God's sake, and if people have a problem with each other then they can settle it like adults.
Yes, we may lose some members. But that's always going to happen: people disagree. I'd much prefer that to a board where a ban on "diffusion of harmful opinions" is in force. -
PS: by
on 2012-07-19 02:35:00 UTC
Link to this
If a person who's failed twice's say matters, I support any changes you make.
Sorry for the outburst. -
Worth noting by
on 2012-07-18 21:10:00 UTC
Link to this
Most of us are not adults, or just barely adults, and quite a few of us, myself included, almost certainly don't qualify as "mature".
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Hang on. by
on 2012-07-18 18:52:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm not going to start challenging your move regarding the rules, because there are people who can and likely will put it way more eloquently than I can. But... you'd rather have a sizeable chunk of the PPC community quit over this rather than alter the rules a little?
Seriously? -
We already set a dangerous precedent. by
on 2012-07-18 18:48:00 UTC
Link to this
We told Tray- through our actions and decisions- that we care less about his life and wellbeing and more about about Jacer's 'right' to say hateful things.
I don't want the PPC's actions to end up being the reason someone kills themselves. -
Agreed. by
on 2012-07-18 17:05:00 UTC
Link to this
On the grounds of The Right to Swing a Fist, and how it ends exactly at someone else's skin.
And I apologize for my role in escalating things. I don't want this to ever happen again.
In addition, possibly more controversially. Is there any way to set up a support system, like the Sibling thing, or something, where people should be able to say that someone is harassing and bullying them - and a way to give that person a clear "Stop this and apologize, or leave" choice? It worries me a lot that Jacer had been harassing people, members of the PPC especially, by e-mail or what have you, and that this was not out in the open until she asked for permission.
We've always considered people PPCers as soon as they start to hang around the community, and I know that general policy is that there's no Official Distinction with permission, making some people More PPCery than others. So... that kind of behavior should be nipped in the bud for all PPCers, not just permissioned ones.
And I don't know if my past arguments and actions concerning authority, or whatever issues came up, have influenced that situation, but if that is the case, I do apologize. It just... shouldn't be happening. I know there's a "Take personal issues to private forums" amendment, but much like the amendment we're all looking at now, that shouldn't extend to harassment and bullying; this was a really bad case, but the problem should not get as bad as suicide before we're ready to do something about it. -
I also support this by
on 2012-07-18 16:31:00 UTC
Link to this
In fact, I agree with everything you have written, especially the comparison to DoctorHello. If he deserved to be run of the board for making one thoroughly disturbing joke, then I don't see how people can defend Jacer's right to stay. At least DH wasn't actively attacking a group of people.
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corollary by
on 2012-07-18 15:37:00 UTC
Link to this
This seems like a reasonable Idea, and should help prevent this sort of thing from happening again. And I believe I speak for all of us when I say, this sucked.
However, one thought I had when was reading this was that if we extended the scope of this amendment to also cover starting threads on potentially controversial topics. If we banned threads like the one that started the first Jacer issue, this never would have started, and we would all be a lot happier.
I say this because many people feel strongly with regards to these issues, and starting massive one-sided discussions with regard to such while banning any other point of view might become just as wrong. In any case, we should remember what we are really about: finding humor in badfic. I believe that the amendment, with this change, will allow this board to remain the sanctuary that has been spoken of so highly. -
No. Rule 13. by
on 2012-07-18 16:24:00 UTC
Link to this
"Serious discussion is ALSO welcome, nay, encouraged, here. Odd, ne?"
I for one would not be happier if this turned into a hugbox with all serious discussion shut away and banned. That is against the PPC's nature.
The problem with the LGBT thread wasn't that she had a different opinion, it was that her opinion was that LGBT people are sinful and disgusting, she backed herself up with things that were outright incorrect, she took it out on people, and she was not apologetic for hurting the feelings of others. Nay, she reacted with triumph.
Also? That's not what we're really about. We're not just about 'finding humor in badfic'. We are about improving our own writing as well. -
Agreed. Can someone come up with some words? by
on 2012-07-18 15:26:00 UTC
Link to this
Since I don't want to start with 'I, the h of S, have crafted this perfected Amendment; concord with it or suggest your pitiful alterations at your peril'...
We're talking about altering the text of Article One, as I understand this thread, to state that:
a) Discrimination and persecution - against specific individuals or classes of people, even if they aren't people on the Board - are not going to be tolerated.
b) In accordance with, er, common courtesy (and the general spirit of the Constitution), people should be given at least one actual chance to stop and apologise - even DoctorGoodbye had that; he rejected it in favour of defending himself in outrage.
Oh, and c) That all non-offensive opinions presented in a respectful fashion are (still!) welcome.
hS, trying -
Do these individuals and classes of people include... by
on 2012-07-18 16:48:00 UTC
Link to this
Neo-nazis, racists, pick up artists/seduction artists, men's rights activists, and mimes?
Because we should at least be allowed to discriminate against terrible people.
Especially the mimes.
In all seriousness, though, if it's a group with the focus of racism, sexism, or some form of oppressive -ism, we should not tolerate them. And probably should be wary of such groups.
I am in favor of giving people the option to apologize for their actions or beliefs, but if they're not sincere or ignore it in favor of defending themselves, their butts should be out the door. -
I'm not writing the wording. by
on 2012-07-18 19:00:00 UTC
Link to this
So it's up to someone else to decide whether to list everyone who can't be discriminated against, list everyone who can be discriminated against, or say something really clever that covers both.
I am in support of anti-mime action in this location.
hS -
An attempt. by
on 2012-07-18 19:45:00 UTC
Link to this
A) Discrimination and persecution on the basis of sexism, racism, ableism, nationalism, homophobia, and transphobia are not going to be tolerated- this means we will not tolerate individual people or groups with the distinct goal of opppressing, persecuting, othering or otherwise using others.
B) In accordance with common courtesy, people will be given at least one actual chance to stop and apologise.
C) All non-offensive opinions presented in a respectful fashion are always welcome.
D) All discovered mimes will be thrown into a pit, which may or may not be filled with various objects such as scorpions upon their availability.
Thoughts? Is A clear enough and open enough? -
I saw no error, by
on 2012-07-19 22:04:00 UTC
Link to this
Though as has been shown, I tend to not spot errors correctly. One problem I did find was with the wording of A, or, specifically, what ISN'T the wording of A. I think there should be a little add-on to it that states something along the lines of "... and no other intolerance of any group, race, ect. will be tolerated either. Except Mimes."<br>
Would that work? -
No. I'm not tolerating the KKK or NAMBLA. (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 22:10:00 UTC
Link to this
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Disregard this comment, someone else already fixed it.(nm) (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 22:06:00 UTC
Link to this
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Second attempt. by
on 2012-07-18 22:46:00 UTC
Link to this
A) Discrimination and persecution on the basis of sexism, racism, ableism, nationalism, homophobia, transphobia, or religion are not going to be tolerated- this means we will not tolerate individual people or groups with the distinct goal of oppressing, persecuting, othering or otherwise using others.
B) In accordance with common courtesy, people will be given at least one actual chance to stop and apologise.
C) All respectful opinions that do not attack, insult, or persecute others (see A) are welcome.
D) All discovered mimes will be thrown into a pit, which may or may not be filled with various objects such as scorpions upon their availability. -
What Elcalion and AV said. by
on 2012-07-19 22:15:00 UTC
Link to this
Let's not leave any loopholes for the rules-lawyers. I think we can be fairly confident that people trying to hide behind loopholes will be firmly dealt with, but those fights tend to be long, bloody, and frustrating.
I don't think this is a KKK/NAMBLA opening, since the KKK is generally covered under the rule itself, and NAMBLA is pretty firmly against the law - after all, DoctorHello tried something along the lines of abuse-humor, and got slammed with reality hard. -
Further thoughts. by
on 2012-07-19 14:38:00 UTC
Link to this
Can someone also please find a way to integrate it with the current text of Article One? And I would like to suggest some expansion of what 'actual chance' means - since "I already told you 'Shut up you stupid person', and you didn't, so leave the Board!" is something some people might consider an 'actual chance' - and if they're upset enough, other people might let them do so.
hS -
A suggestion... by
on 2012-07-20 09:34:00 UTC
Link to this
I took a shot at revising and integrating article one. This isn't intended to be the final product, and all suggestions are more than welcome, but see what you think of it to start:
A: Discrimination and persecution of any kind will not be tolerated, especially on the basis of sexism, racism, ableism, nationalism, homophobia, transphobia, or religion. We will not tolerate individual people or groups who intentionally oppress, persecute, other, use or otherwise attack others in any way, shape or form, for any reason.
B: Do not flame. There is a distinct difference between 'I don't agree with your opinion and I think that your theory is factually wrong' and 'You're an idiot and your opinion is built on lies and stupidity'. If you find that you're hurling insults around, just stop. In addition, we don't tolerate anyone making jokes about topics like rape, murder, abuse, bigotry and mental health issues.
C: People engaged in any of the above will be given at least one actual chance to stop and apologise. Telling someone to shut up because their opinion is unwanted does not constitute a chance. A chance is, for example, the following:
John: Mass Effect 3's ending was terrible and the Extended Cut just made it worse!
Jane: I don't know, I thought it was all right.
John: Only an idiot would think that! You're an imbecile!
James: John, we don't tolerate people who insult others here. Calm down, step away from the keyboard, go read the Constitution and then please apologise to Jane.
John: All right. I'm sorry for insulting you, Jane. I don't agree with you, but I'll leave it at that.*
D: All respectful opinions that do not attack, insult, or persecute others (see A) are welcome. We encourage respectful, friendly debates here. Should a debate escalate into an argument for any reason, everyone involved should step back and calm down before continuing. If this cannot be done, it may be best to abandon the conversation entirely.
E: If someone says something that seems offensive, but you’re not sure exactly what they meant, ASK them first, before jumping down their throats. Astonishingly enough, most people aren’t out to offend anyone. (If they are being deliberately insulting, believe me, you’ll have a lot of backup.) Don't be afraid to ask what someone meant- it isn't silly to want the full facts.
F: If you find it impossible to get along with another member of the PPC, please take it up in private e-mail. Don’t turn our spaces into free-for-all flamefests, don’t engage in bullying behaviour, and while you’re in our spaces, don’t say anything about another PPCer you wouldn’t say to their face. Remember, if you have to ask yourself if you’ve gone too far, you probably have. Everyone should do their best to be as civil as possible while on the Board.
G: The PPC as a community is responsible for upholding the Constitution. If you see someone breaking any of the rules and guidelines herein, please ask them to stop (politely, though) and explain why. If this doesn't resolve the situation, you will be backed up - and if it continues, a persistant rule-breaker is likely to be shunned or asked to leave the Board. (If you're being accused of breaking a rule, take a step back and, if you are in the wrong, stop, apologise, and move on. Grudges are no fun!)
H: Everyone on the Board is to be respected, be they newbie, oldbie, Permission Giver, IRC mod, author of dozens of missions or writer of two missions. The opinions of a newbie are just as valid and wanted as those of someone here for four years.
I: The moderators and Permission Givers are here for a reason. Should one tell you to do something, do it. For reference, our current moderators are: [list goes here]**
J: All discovered mimes will be thrown into a pit, which may or may not be filled with various objects such as scorpions upon their availability.
J.5: There will be no clemency for these mimes until they learn the words.
* My example isn't very good, I know. If anyone's got a better one, feel free to put it there.
** I'm actually not sure who all the current mods are, which is why I'm suggesting a list. -
Re: A suggestion... by
on 2012-07-20 22:46:00 UTC
Link to this
Your suggestion looks really good. Though, I don't think the board actually has moderators? I know the IRC has a few, and has guys called Designated Arbitrators, whose jobs are to help diffuse arguments and stuff, but I think the board just has Permission Givers and the Nameless Admin.
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Sounds good to me. by
on 2012-07-20 21:35:00 UTC
Link to this
I wish that these things could go without saying, but people have to know exactly what's expected of them. I hope this amendment is effective, because I would hate to see anything like what just happened happen again.
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On F. by
on 2012-07-20 14:09:00 UTC
Link to this
I think we might need a revision along the lines of:
F: If you find it impossible to get along with another member of the PPC, please take it up in private e-mail. However, the rules of civility and respect do not end off the Board; harassing others by private means is just as serious as harassing them in public, and will be treated as such. Don’t engage in bullying behaviour, and don’t say anything about another PPCer you wouldn’t say to their face. Remember, if you have to ask yourself if you’ve gone too far, you probably have. Everyone should do their best to be as civil as possible while on the Board. -
Re: On F. by
on 2012-07-20 14:57:00 UTC
Link to this
Yeah, that sounds good. Thanks. :)
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Re: A suggestion... by
on 2012-07-20 12:32:00 UTC
Link to this
Your suggestion looks pretty good to me, and looks like it includes everything mentioned so far, but there is one point that I'm not sure about, and that's J.
I'm not aware of any official anti-mime policy within the PPC, so I'm assuming that's just a joke (and possibly a reference to Lord Vetinari from Discworld), and while it does seem to fit with the slightly absurd nature of the PPC, it could also be seen to somewhat devalue the rest of the points.
Earlier in this thread, people have been talking about closing off any loopholes to prevent exploitation by rules-lawyers, and I would consider this to be akin to a loophole in that someone could say 'Well, that point wasn't meant to be taken seriously, so why should I listen to the others?'. I don't think that's a particularly good reason, but it's the kind of excuse that I could see someone trying if they were intentionally stirring things up, and those kind of arguments can drag on and just spoil things for other people. It's probably best to avoid them from the start. -
Actually... by
on 2012-07-20 13:38:00 UTC
Link to this
it is meant to be a joke, and one based on Discworld at that, but it is very clearly a joke entry meant to let people know we're not trying to be NO FUN ALLOWED. If someone really did try to use "but that's a joke, so therefore all the rules are jokes" as an excuse, we'd just have to tell them otherwise.
In any case, joke entries in the Constitution have never been used as an excuse before to my knowledge, and it's been in existence for years*. I figure people who are able to comprehend the rules and follow them are also able to tell jokes from the serious entries.
*Older-bies, feel free to correct me if I'm uninformed. :P -
Fair enough. by
on 2012-07-20 12:57:00 UTC
Link to this
All right, we may have to put the anti-mime policy on hold. Or put it somewhere else.
-
Looks good by
on 2012-07-19 13:31:00 UTC
Link to this
I would suggest going with Astral Void's wording of point A, because some people can be creative with loopholes and "of any kind" closes one before it's found.
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Looks pretty good. by
on 2012-07-19 00:47:00 UTC
Link to this
However, I did have an idea or two regarding some slight revisions.
A: Discrimination and persecution of any kind, especially on the basis of sexism, racism, ableism, nationalism, homophobia, transphobia, or religion, are not going to be tolerated- this means we will not tolerate individual people or groups with the distinct goal of oppressing, persecuting, attacking, othering or otherwise using others in any way, shape or form.
C: All respectful opinions that do not attack, insult or persecute others (see A) are welcome- we encourage and like respectful, open-minded debates.
D: All discovered mimes will be thrown into a very deep pit, which may or may not be filled with various objects such as scorpions depending upon their availability.
D.5: There will be no clemency for these mimes. Ever.
Feel free to ignore or adapt these as you will... -
I support Astral's wording by
on 2012-07-19 16:55:00 UTC
Link to this
with just one change.
D.75: "Learn the words".
Seriously, though, I think A and C are now worded very tightly and should cover most if not all eventualities.
C is an important clause - we need to preserve the Board's ability to have a mature discussion about "meaningful" topics. It's just sad that we can no longer self-regulate...
Elcalion, shocked at all the horribleness on the Board these days and taking refuge in Pratchett. -
Hmm. by
on 2012-07-18 22:32:00 UTC
Link to this
A is definitely clear, at least to me.
C seems slightly ambiguous - 'offensive' tends to be a word that is a bit open-ended in definition, allowing for a lot of different people to have different definitions - and possibly opening the door to this thing happening all over again in a few years, when somebody steps up to go "Okay, that was really offensive," and somebody else goes "No, it wasn't, also I was totally respectful while saying otherkin are abominations to the FSM," and people take sides and things go nuclear.
How about:
C) All respectful opinions that do not attack, insult, or persecute others (see A) are welcome. -
I approve. by
on 2012-07-18 20:35:00 UTC
Link to this
Especially D.
Also backing Lilac Lielac's suggestion of adding a "no discrimination/persecution on the basis of someone's religion or lack thereof" clause. We want all of our angles covered to prevent loophole abuse. -
Sounds good to me. by
on 2012-07-18 19:57:00 UTC
Link to this
A might also use a mention of no discrimination/persecution on the basis of someone's religion or lack thereof; that one's also a button I've seen pressed, not here but elsewhere on the 'net.
Otherwise it looks about right, though I think the mime pit needs a camera so we can watch them try to climb up invisible ladders. -
Indeed. by
on 2012-07-18 14:31:00 UTC
Link to this
Safe-spacing is now pretty mainstream in cohesive communities. It's perfectly reasonable to ask people to leave homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism and ablism at the door. We should always strive to be slightly better than the youtube comments section . . .
At the same time, it would be great if we didn't develop a vigilante culture where people are not permitted to move on from past mistakes after acknowledging and correcting them. The PPC helped me work through my own internalised homophobia when I was only just starting to come out to myself, and I happen to know I'm not the only one.
If they'd instead gone all SOCIAL-JUSTICE-WARRIOR-HULK-SMASH, it would have been a much more lonely and painful process, and I wouldn't have had anywhere safe to land after completing it. It feels good to dispense the fire of righteous justice from above, but when it's dispensed indiscriminately, people who are genuinely trying to do better have nowhere to do it. And some people who desperately need safe spaces are thrown out into the cold.
However: the PPC isn't the place for people who legitimately can't be bothered with basic human decency. If someone says, "Ow, you're stepping on my face," the correct response is, "Oh, I'm terribly sorry, I didn't realise and will remove my foot forthwith." Not, "Good. Let me step a little bit harder."
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. So be nice! Treat everyone else in the PPC with respect!"
. . . or leave. I'm happy with making an amendment to further clarify that when we say "be nice" we do actually, you know, mean it. We shouldn't feel obligated to tolerate brutality. -
Re: Indeed. by
on 2012-07-18 19:47:00 UTC
Link to this
I suppose it is also reasonable to ask people to leave slut-shaming at the door, yes?
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Re: Indeed. by
on 2012-07-18 22:12:00 UTC
Link to this
This is me, seconding the inclusion of slut-shaming in the "These are the things you just can't do here" pile.
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A safe space indeed. by
on 2012-07-18 23:03:00 UTC
Link to this
But it's a damn shame not everyone is the sort to agree with that, and follow it. That sort of stuff should not just be swept under the rug, and forgotten. 'Noble Cause' or not.
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Okay, hold on. by
on 2012-07-18 23:21:00 UTC
Link to this
Nobody else mentioned this "slut-shaming" thing. I'm not going to pretend I know what this is all about, but it has the ring of making digs at someone that they're going to pick up on and feel bad about. And that is the sort of thing we are trying to avoid here. Either act like someone mature enough to be talking about this and deal with the problem privately, or drop it. Don't spread attempts at subtle nastiness, because that's exactly what this seems like.
- Cassie, who is sick to death of the unpleasantness wafting around the Board right now. -
*hug* by
on 2012-07-18 17:03:00 UTC
Link to this
I don't think we have to worry about a vigilante culture developing here- after all, a sound chunk announced that they would rather leave than not be in accordance with the rules. Instead, we have the opposite problem, where people are defended of past and current mistakes they aren't apologetic for in the least because the rules say we're supposed to do so.
I am very glad that you were able to work through it yourself with help here, and that there were others who did as well. The PPC's helped me through a lot of things as well.
SJWs are a terrible thing; I'd want no part in a group of them, and it's not something that should ever become part of the PPC. We are, I hope, much better than that. There's no justice or teaching with them, only hatred and scorn. -
I agree with this amendment. by
on 2012-07-18 09:35:00 UTC
Link to this
On all possible counts, I agree with this amendment, and am in favor of writing it into the Constitution of the PPC. That is all.
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This seems like a start. by
on 2012-07-18 09:34:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm thrown that things have been allowed to end up like this in the first place. As other people have said, the PPC has always been a safe space for me - a spot in the world where, no matter what kind of bad stuff's been happening to me, I'm going to feel protected. And that was because one of the major defining rules of this place as I perceived them was "Thou shalt not make anyone else feel hurt or upset, and if someone tells thee thou hast done so, even unintentionally, thou shalt take responsibility, apologise, and quit it." And it's suddenly not like that any more.
I don't want to leave - in fact, I will be extremely miserable if it comes to that - and putting up some extra safeguards seems like a good way to start resolving the issues that have blown up. I don't wanna leave my Internet home. -
It should always be a safe place. by
on 2012-07-18 17:12:00 UTC
Link to this
And it should be somewhere that you know you have a voice too. :P Just because you're quiet, doesn't mean it doesn't carry weight to it. You've been a big part of the community for a long time, Cassie. You are more than entitled to say things when you feel things need to be said.
Everyone's supposed to feel at home here enough to say things and not feel like they'll be ignored. -
It should be, yes. by
on 2012-07-18 17:57:00 UTC
Link to this
And hopefully, with so many people stepping up to support this amendment to the Constitution, it'll become a safe place again.
Also, I've never felt like a big part of the community - just a teeny little part that occasionally happens to talk to big parts who like me. :P Guess it's my own fault for not participating much, but I never feel like I have anything to say - at least nothing that's not already been said by other people, or that won't get me told off for not thinking things through. Which is, I think, why I tend to enter debates and arguments as they're beginning to wind down and just add my voice to support one side or the other. -
Re: It should be, yes. by
on 2012-07-19 11:34:00 UTC
Link to this
You're not the only one who's fairly quiet, Cassie. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it does mean that people like us tend to avoid the main firing line in situations akin to that which recently happened.
I daresay that, having lurked and watched said events from a distance, the whole affair is an almighty shame, especially for those who are leaving as a result.
Having watched the film 'Batman Begins' a few days ago, I think there is a quote that would be quite applicable here:
"Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again."
That's what the PPC needs to do now, and I really hope it manages to, because even from the little I have seen up until now, it seems the people here do want to try and do good by the world. Safeguards are increasingly necessary nowadays, though, especially regarding topics which tend to have strong opinions on all sides.
As such, I agree the Constitution should include this update, and the update should be enforced.
Also, another suggestion: most boards and forums have a group of admins whose job it is to handle such things and remove posts not conforming to the appropriate site rules. Is this part of the PGs jobs, should it be or should there be other boarders voted in to carry out this function? -
Some enforcement queries by
on 2012-07-20 13:25:00 UTC
Link to this
I was wondering what could be done about if, say, somebody was banned from the Board but just came back under a different name?
Also, if somebody was asked to leave/banned, how would they actually be prevented from posting again anyway, same name or otherwise?
I mention these because they are something else often covered by most forums' rules, usually backed up by site mechanics.
I also found a mention of moderators since my last post. My previous post's last point is therefore already covered. My bad. -
Re: Some enforcement queries by
on 2012-07-22 01:30:00 UTC
Link to this
Well, there are some problems there, under our current board system. Banning from the board is done by banning an IP address, not a name, but I believe we can only have a certain number of IPs banned at a time. Also, since it does done by IP and not name, that means that someone who has their private IP banned can still log in from pretty much any other internet connection, like a library or a cafe with wi-fi.
Really, the only effective method of enforcing a ban, or making sure someone who has been asked to leave doesn't come back would be to have the Nameless Admin delete any new posts they make, as soon as they were spotted. Unfortunately, the Admin is the only one who can delete posts and/or register bans, which could potentially lead to an unfortunate amount of work on their end. -
Hmm, tricky problem... by
on 2012-07-22 12:27:00 UTC
Link to this
...just because I agree with updating the Constitution, but the PPC Posting Board also needs a way to enforce it. Unfortunately not all people, when politely asked to leave, will necessarily leave, especially if they have decided they want to start flaming. Hopefully this will not happen, but it cannot be guaranteed.
In light of recent events, we must not forget to cover this base too. It might be an idea to have a plan B if the Nameless Admin gets overloaded, or if somebody finds a way around the IP block/the site runs out of IP blocks available. I hate to say it, but necessity might be driving us towards a new site.
I for one would be a lot happier if the login button worked. As it currently stands, somebody could come in, flame under an existing member's name and get an innocent Boarder banned. If we're looking to fill in loopholes, that is a BIG one. -
Not really. by
on 2012-07-23 21:22:00 UTC
Link to this
...somebody could come in, flame under an existing member's name and get an innocent Boarder banned.
First off, the IP addresses are visible. It would be very, very easy** to check the IP on the flame post against a Boarder's usual IP address, and note that the post was not made by them. (Likewise, if a Boarder starts flaming anonymously, unless they're careful, it's very easy to figure out who it is.*) Also, we do have people who are very good at techno-y things, who can figure out things like where a post came from, and other mysterious... um... things. Anyway.
The login button has never worked, as long as I can remember. If we are going to try and make this a Really Secure Place with a Really Secure Login, we're back to talking about another forum altogether. Which is a solution that, IIRC, is being brainstormed by some of the afore-mentioned smart and techno-y people.
So in the meantime, enforcement as done by the 'Board - namely, "No, you've broken the rules and harassed/bullied people, you've been given chances to apologize but instead continued to bully/harass, you're no longer welcome here," is about enough. If people try to start a flame-war, the Nameless Admin has proven quite capable of shutting that down - if they can stop the ypur invasion two (three?) years in a row, I have full confidence they can stop a disgruntled former Boarder in their tracks.
*Note: this also applies to 'Anonymous' replies on debate and argument threads! Don't bother, dudes. Nobody is going to see a salient point and go "Ah, that's wise, but-- Oh My God, it's that horrible ZombieVectorDude saying it! How DARE they weigh in on a serious issue after failing at permission/only being here a few days/not being super best friends with everyone!" Nobody is going to run you off the 'Board for disagreeing with them on a point of IP security, or what have you. Nobody is going to rise up and tell you you're not allowed to talk here, because you don't have permission yet. Just sign your name.
**Probably. Most of the time. Barring tactical camouflage measures. -
Good to know by
on 2012-07-24 19:38:00 UTC
Link to this
Ah, then I guess I'm just being paranoid. Good to know it's covered. Thanks for putting my worries to rest.
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Something needs to be done, and I think this is it. by
on 2012-07-18 09:21:00 UTC
Link to this
This entire situation has really hit home for me. I've tried to avoid it, but I can't anymore. It's a problem that, I think, is silently plaguing the entire Internet - especially communities like the PPC.
I do not like getting into fights on the Internet. In fact, I do not like getting into fights period, but on the Internet it's different, because we're all semi-anonymous. Even if someone uses their real name, we don't really know each other. I'm going to be brutally honest here: when I have a conversation with a close friend in the real world, I know a lot about them and I recognize them a real person. When I have a conversation with a stranger on the Internet, they're just... someone. A screenname. A robot, for all I care.
The problem, I suppose, is that there is a significant difference between "a screenname" and "a robot". And these two personalities simply do not mesh.
On the pure level of polite conversation, this view of the world actually works. I believe this is because at that level, we are calm, able to process information well. Therefore, the other party can be viewed as a screenname - a person. A faraway person, perhaps, and most likely a complete stranger, but still, at the very least, a person. For a person, we have sympathy, and sympathy begets ceasefire and peace.
But once something changes in that mix - say, a rude or hate-filled or unbridled remark - it boils over. The other person stops being a person and becomes a robot. A robot has no emotion. It is cold and mechanical, and it means nothing. If we view a person as a robot, then we feel free to sling as much mud at them as possible, and it becomes war.
The obvious solution to the problem is not to throw the first punch at all, but to just behave like little angels. But the odds of that happening are so low that it's pretty much a joke. I must say I like the zero-tolerance proposal, even if it is harsh, because it's a step towards that idyllic, if implausible, utopia.
But I also have this to say: when the first punch is thrown, it is best to remember the primary difference between a robot and a person.
If you tear a robot into a million pieces, nothing of much significance happens, and you are allowed to continue living life as usual.
If you tear a person into a million pieces, you are a murderer. -
I found this comment incredibly powerful, and I agree. (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 22:12:00 UTC
Link to this
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Thanks for the compliment. by
on 2012-07-20 05:47:00 UTC
Link to this
Just so you know, I wrote that well after midnight when I should have been fast asleep, but I was just so mad at... well, everything, and I couldn't help write it down. The truly sad thing is I don't believe ours is a problem that can be solved completely - but at least we're moving in the right direction, and that's what I want to see.
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Re: Constitution amendment proposition by
on 2012-07-18 06:56:00 UTC
Link to this
In my opinion, the bottom line is that if people are hurt, whoever's been saying the hurtful things should shut up, and fast. If they don't shut up of their volition, they should be silenced. Because a person's right to safety is much, much, much more important than free speech.
So, yes, let's change the constitution; I also agree with what Doctorlit said.
(It goes without saying that I don't want to offend anybody.) -
Third by
on 2012-07-18 04:35:00 UTC
Link to this
The PPC has been for a long time (a very long time for some members) a place that maintained safety simply because we could trust our fellow members to not fail to grow and learn. It is a very sad time when we have to admit that the PPC has grown large enough that we cannot always trust every person that knocks on our doors.
We need a plan in place to deal with emergencies. I feel like if we have a short clear list, then we will be able to deal with these potentially very harmful topics before they get this out of hand.
It won't stop every argument that crops up, but I still have trust that the PPC can arbitrate the lesser issues without abusing any emergency plan that is worked out.
We can, and should, respect each other's cultures and opinions as equally valid, but we cannot allow that to extend to a position of absolute relativism where any variation is equally valid. Some people and cultures find it perfectly valid to violate things that are identified as basic human rights. Some things (basic human rights violations) have to be considered clearly wrong. When I say I agree with a list of things that are zero tolerance items, these are the kinds of things I am agreeing to being on it. -
I agree... by
on 2012-07-18 04:12:00 UTC
Link to this
And I apologize for my part in the situation. It won't happen again.
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Re: The Constitution by
on 2012-07-18 04:10:00 UTC
Link to this
Yes, we should practice zero tolerance against hate and bullying. Yes, this should be reflected in the Constitution. But! Zero tolerance should have been an automatic response to this situation.
Because we shouldn't need a Constitution--any Constitution--to give us basic moral guidelines. The mental and physical well-being of Tray-Gnome (and of Bronwyn, and of anyone else who has been hurt or scared by Jacer's homophobic comments anywhere) is more important than the PPC's Constitution. They are more important than the PPC.
So yes, let's edit the Constitution. But let's not forget that the Constitution is only a piece of "paper." We are living, breathing, thinking, feeling human beings. We have minds. We have consciences. Sometimes, we need to use those first and the Constitution second.
(SeaTurtle--I realize this post is rather aggressive, but please don't think the aggression is directed at either you or your topic. It was a good idea to make this thread.) -
No offense taken, sir. by
on 2012-07-18 06:13:00 UTC
Link to this
It just seemed that everyone was falling back onto the Constitution to defend themselves. I am in complete agreement with you.
I'm just so sad that it needed people to quit so that we realize that we need to take action... -
Now that you spell it out... by
on 2012-07-18 03:50:00 UTC
Link to this
I propose that we include a subsection to the first rule in our Constitution: that we will not tolerate any sort of discrimination, persecution, or diffusion of harmful opinions.
I'm kind of incredulous that this isn't already in there. Isn't this a basic Thing? Isn't this a clause everyone puts into their Document of Thou Shalt (Not)s nowadays?
Mind, "No discrimination or persecution" can, unfortunately, be turned around into "You're [discriminating against/persecuting] me because I'm diffusing harmful opinions", which... actually on second thought there is no acceptable defence in that sentence scrap that thought, whoever has the rights to edit the Constitution add a clause in like SeaTurtle suggests. -
Yeah by
on 2012-07-18 09:45:00 UTC
Link to this
Most places these days do have a 'no discrimination' pointer, of some wording or other, in their document of social rules for their community.
It's rare not to... and could stand to be rarer. -
I agree. by
on 2012-07-18 03:49:00 UTC
Link to this
Sometimes, only the harsh policy works. I agree with this.
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I also support the propostion. (nm) by
on 2012-07-18 03:48:00 UTC
Link to this
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Seconded (nm) by
on 2012-07-18 03:42:00 UTC
Link to this
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for what it matters by
on 2012-07-18 03:32:00 UTC
Link to this
I support this proposition.
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Found something by
on 2012-07-18 05:35:00 UTC
Link to this
Might want to have somebody go after this one:
http://civgod666.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d51gixr
Contains trivialized domestic abuse, among other offenses. When I wrote a critique calling the author out on this he dismissed it as inflammatory, called me a troll, and blocked me. -
After all this... by
on 2012-07-20 01:21:00 UTC
Link to this
I feel like one of our senior members or PGs should send a message to the author, saying something along the lines of 'we are very sorry about Zelda, they don't represent or community, please don't judge us on their example, thank you for being civil about this'.
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I already did that, yesterday. by
on 2012-07-20 01:26:00 UTC
Link to this
Since both this guy and GoneRampant do not represent us.
The author was very civil when I messaged them, and between that and the rest of the comments on the piece, that is why I said what I did right below your post here. -
Oh. OK then. by
on 2012-07-20 01:37:00 UTC
Link to this
That comment wasn't very clear. But it's good that the author was civil and understanding.
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Ahuh, right. by
on 2012-07-19 04:42:00 UTC
Link to this
Dude. Going from what I saw of the replies and posts there from your part?
You are not welcome here. You disregarded our rules- assuming you read them in the first place- to troll and insult people.
That behavior is not acceptable. -
Hey, quick message: by
on 2012-07-19 03:42:00 UTC
Link to this
Just solved the problem- the scene'll be going down soon, but the author says, "I want the Zelda person to learn some f**king manners." Just passing it along.
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Also... by
on 2012-07-19 03:44:00 UTC
Link to this
If you're wondering, here's the author's last message:
"I've been there too...and I've offended myself with it since day one. Im informing my watchers now of what I've decided. Im going to fully rewrite Scoots side or even take it out. Im really sorry this had to happen, regardless of what happens in your group.
I want you to know that you have earned my respect tonight with your civil and fully honest approach. I'm changing the story on two conditions. One, your group is just and right, but your Zelda person needs to learn some ...ing manners. Teach him. Two, i dont ever want to hear from yall again. Im a very civil and opened minded person, but I will not be bullied. My watchers are ready to go to war with your group over this but im not allowing them to.
I wish we had been able to talk under better circumstances. Also, im not changing this for your group, im changing this for you and me. Civility goes a long ways sir." -
Ignore what I said. by
on 2012-07-19 03:18:00 UTC
Link to this
So... I talked to the author and didn't start yelling right away. They've been civil, and said that the story wasn't meant to go as far as it did, and that if, and I quote, "Feel it is too offensive, I will delete that part." So maybe no on the sporking?
Also, here's a little more: "However, what power does your group have? because my watchers arent liking this."
Any suggestions as to what I say? -
Well... by
on 2012-07-19 03:22:00 UTC
Link to this
...we don't have any powers whatsoever.
At all. We're not the fandom police, we're just finding humour in bad writing and writing funny missions to go with it.
I suggest you keep the PPC out of the public eye. We don't want to attract unwanted attention, especially at this time... -
OK by
on 2012-07-19 03:24:00 UTC
Link to this
Right, I'll tell the author they're in the clear. I'll tell them to delete the abuse.
But seriously... what's happened? -
What exactly are you doing? by
on 2012-07-19 03:46:00 UTC
Link to this
Some of us in the IRC have been watching your exchange with this author. Why did you take it upon yourself to do this? Did you think you were doing a good deed, or did you just want to rile shit up?
Also, I personally couldn't help notice the rather obvious hypocrisy between your cry of "Spork the B*tch" here and your rather reasonable initial post there:
"OK, good things- Grammer's fine, and... well... that's it.
I'm not a fan of the original material, but I can respect you going out and doing something not many people write these days.
Sadly, I'm only here because I found a link on the PPC Posting Board, and I'm just giving you a friendly warning- they may spork this, and... I think they're right.
Because I'm a Victim of this stuff. So reading it? Not fun memories, I'll tell you that much."
An explanation would not go amiss at this point. -
Let Me Get This Straight... by
on 2012-07-19 03:51:00 UTC
Link to this
I make the initial post before I talked to the author and stopped any flame wars. I get them to rewrite/delete the scene that caused all this.
I'm not expecting anything- maybe one guy saying, "Thanks for solving this before It Got Worse!" And then I'm given what I assume is the Forum version of grabbing someone against a wall.
So what'd I do this time, aside from Doing The Right Thing? -
No. by
on 2012-07-19 04:09:00 UTC
Link to this
You are not our designated representative. You do not speak on the community's behalf. That is not how we do things here.
You have not stopped a flame war. You may have actually helped cause one instead, as now an angry author with internet friends can search us out, come in here, and cause trouble. We don't that, especially now of all times.
You have been constantly inconsiderate since returning to the Board. You have ignored the requests of PPC members.
I am asking you to leave. -
Read Jacer's Permission thread. by
on 2012-07-19 03:31:00 UTC
Link to this
All of it, it's just down the Board, and follow Tranum's link when you come to his post, then read all of that thread too.
Then you'll know what happened. -
While I appreciate you wanting to help him... by
on 2012-07-19 03:36:00 UTC
Link to this
You shouldn't've done.
He's already commented on Tray's thread, the thread you made, and then made his own thread complaining that he still didn't know what was going on, and was rude, insulting, condescending over many of his posts since he first posted in Tray's thread. -
Sorry ma'am. (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 04:00:00 UTC
Link to this
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Re: Read Jacer's Permission thread. by
on 2012-07-19 03:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Right. Thanks.
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SPORK THE BITCH! by
on 2012-07-19 02:17:00 UTC
Link to this
...
*Cough*
Um, what I said above. -
Not on. Not appropriate. Not cool. by
on 2012-07-19 02:35:00 UTC
Link to this
This behavior is not acceptable here. You are more than welcome to leave if you think saying this sort of thing is okay.
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*Sigh* by
on 2012-07-19 02:41:00 UTC
Link to this
Look, I got angry. I'm not proud of me a lot of the time, but... If there's a way to delete that comment, let me know.
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Getting angry is no excuse. (nm) by
on 2012-07-19 02:57:00 UTC
Link to this
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I Know. by
on 2012-07-19 03:02:00 UTC
Link to this
That's what made me leave the Board a while a go, and made me lose Herr Wozzeck as a friend.
Look, if I can take it back, I would in a heartbeat. -
But that's just the thing, you can't take it back. by
on 2012-07-19 19:45:00 UTC
Link to this
I learned the hard way that if you screw up once, there is no quick way to fix it. You really have to put in the effort to make it right, and even if you could delete that post, people would still remember.
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Uh. Language maybe slightly less enormously? by
on 2012-07-19 02:29:00 UTC
Link to this
As in, under the post, where people can choose whether to click or not, instead of in caps-lock on the front of the 'Board?
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Um... by
on 2012-07-19 02:41:00 UTC
Link to this
The "Spork" thing. And I kind of wish I hadn't said it that way.
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Re: Found something by
on 2012-07-18 11:19:00 UTC
Link to this
>MLP Fanfic
I wouldn't touch MLP fanfics most of the time, but whenever I touch one, I usually find stuff that is not supposed to be put into the MLP-verse. This one's not even an exemption, look at all the violence and blood that is implied in the fanfic! Bleh. Bronies and their insane ideas of adding such genre to a show where everything is supposed to be happy and carefree and stuff.
>dA author's reaction towards your criticism
I am not surprised at all that he/she/it reacted like a child with an extremely fragile ego and wouldn't hear out anything that you say unless it involves a Moronic Observation, Asinine Response or M.O.A.R. comment. dA's a place where many artists and authors try to find people who will kiss their feet once they show them their 'art'. Kinda like the fanfiction.net's twin, but hosts pictures and written prose and has a vast number of M.O.A.R. posters and onion-skinned authors and artists. -
I'll be over there whimpering in pain. by
on 2012-07-18 07:14:00 UTC
Link to this
Why-hy-hyyyyyyy...
I mean seriously, what is even the point of making Scootaloo's mother an abusive alcoholic. It inserts grimdark for no reason, creates angst for angst's sake, and it's not even well-written! Ugh, it's in a kid's point of view and it doesn't sound like a kid, it's got too many formal words like 'assailant' and it isn't Scootaloo, that's the major thing because 'assailant' could be in a kid's vocabulary (coughprobablytwilightsparkleasafillycough) but this, this isn't Scootaloo.
Ow, ow, ow, Celestia this thing hurts, no self you haven't even got Permission and your schoolwork situation is in a place where you know full well it takes precedence over Fun, you cannot take a titanium spork to it! But Glod, Glod do I want to. -
If I may... by
on 2012-07-24 12:21:00 UTC
Link to this
"Scootabuse" is actually a sort of thing in the fandom. I have no idea where it started (Nor do I wish to show examples), but you can expect more of it in the future.
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Betas Wanted by
on 2012-07-18 22:07:00 UTC
Link to this
Hello, everyone. I recently finished writing a mission in 'The Legend of Korra.' It was a really annoying Suefic, and I'd like a beta to help proofread. It would also be good if said beta knew something about Codex Alera, since my agent Narav is a Canim from there, and I don't want to mess up the complexities of their body language, though this is more of an optional thing.
Please post your email here if you're interested. -
I'll volunteer by
on 2012-07-19 00:25:00 UTC
Link to this
You should be able to click my name to get my email. Lemme know if not.
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Tensions? by
on 2012-07-19 02:28:00 UTC
Link to this
OK, I've missed something.
I just came from a charming Livejournal currently (As of 2:25 AM, Ireland time) on the front page that talks about tensions on the Board. above it is a person thinking of leaving because of a bad Thread that I won't get into.
My reasoning for not being on the board is a little out of shame- after two failed Permission attempts, I felt a little like a laughing stock. Recently, I've had a falling out with the person who lead me to the PPC (Well, TVTropes did, but it was his page that led me to the PPC's Tropes page... and I'm rambling).
Long story short, I buggered off out of shame for being a f***ing idiot, and I'm wondering: What happened to cause the titular tensions?
PS: Sorry to the topic I kick off the main page. -
As someone who lurks often, let me say... by
on 2012-07-19 02:47:00 UTC
Link to this
...that if you can't take the time to read through the threads yourself and come to your own conclusions, you should at least ask someone on IM or the IRC what's going on instead of cluttering up the Board with something that you could find out by just clicking down the page. We already have a discussion underway about this topic--please join us there when you have done your homework.
In light of the fact that we already have a discussion about PPC tensions, PPCers, please do not reply to this thread. -
Link? by
on 2012-07-19 02:51:00 UTC
Link to this
Before I get snipped at, can I have a link to the discussion, or it's name? I've spent the last while getting sniped on DevArt, FF.Net, and now here.
*Puffs* Fantastic welcome back party.
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Exit, stage left by
on 2012-07-19 14:55:00 UTC
Link to this
Well, this is it for me, I guess.
Nine months, two false starts in actually contributing something in full and, to be frank, nothing's going anywhere. With IRL concerns taking more and more precedence, as well as my languishing own fanfiction to get back into, I don't believe I can devote any further time to contribute in depth to here.
Henceforth, as of (say) 09:00 am (AEST), July 20, I request to be no longer considered a member of the PPC Community and will be disappearing from this Board indefinitely. If there is anything that I need to do before that occurs, please inform me by replying to this message.
To those veteran members of this community, including the founders Jay and Arcacia (I hope I have those names right), I would like to offer you all my thanks. Thank you for what you have created here, both the universe you have created and the welcoming and fun community you have developed. Thank you for the support you guys have given myself and others who may have started out around the same time I have. I found myself enjoying the tales written by you, laughed at some of the antics your characters and those of other people's works pulled off alongside each other and I managed to gain some new insights into effectively analyzing and critiquing fanfiction work.
Now, I believe this ... is where I get off.
PPC Boarder 'CDHammer'
C.D. Hammond -
Well... by
on 2012-07-19 15:16:00 UTC
Link to this
Goodbye. Though, to be honest, false starts shouldn't cause you to quit -- look at me. Anyway, RL concerns trump interwebz every time. So, again: goodbye.
PS: It's 'Acacia' (the same as the throny tree). -
-Facepalm- Spelling Mistake... by
on 2012-07-19 15:17:00 UTC
Link to this
Thorny, not throny. Though a tree shaped like a throne is an interesting sight...
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Help with permissions by
on 2012-07-19 19:58:00 UTC
Link to this
Is it considered bad form to create a Sue/Stu from an imaginary badfic to serve as an agent's background? Normally I'd follow the "If you need to ask if it's bad, it probably is" rule, but I really can't tell for this. Please help me.
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Response. by
on 2012-07-19 20:23:00 UTC
Link to this
As long as they're not a completely overblown Sue/Stu, I don't see an issue with it. Several written agents come from that background - among them Jill Greenleaf, Kelvin Talathion and Dafydd Illian. Just don't give your new agent ridiculous superpowers - or if their origins demand it, slap some strict limitations or disadvantages on them to balance things out. It's no fun if they can wander through the fic busting everything with a wave of their hand; they should still have to struggle/ get stressed/run into actual difficulty.
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Thank you by
on 2012-07-19 21:55:00 UTC
Link to this
I was intending to take your advice even before you gave it, but I didn't know if they came from real fics or not. If I need to find a Stu to make my character work, I might just have to scream. I have an idea for an agent that, admittedly, took a while to dream up, but the cost/benefit of having to sift through such great masses of badfic before I even have permissions to make it worthwhile is... daunting.
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Personally... by
on 2012-07-19 22:09:00 UTC
Link to this
I much prefer making the characters up myself. Others have different opinions, and certainly a lot of people have a lot of fun the other way, but I find I'm most comfortable with characters made entirely from scratch.
And if their fictionalized backstory is a badfic, that's perfectly legal as well! And can add some fun characterization, too. -
Thanks! by
on 2012-07-19 22:13:00 UTC
Link to this
I shall continue with my permissions, good day to all.
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A fistful of fics, good and bad! by
on 2012-07-20 02:19:00 UTC
Link to this
Okay, so I figured I'd show some of the fics I've read over the past couple of weeks. I'll be listing them in order of descending quality (according to my own opinions, of course; I have strange tastes so you may disagree with me on what I consider "goodfic" or "badfic.") Do with them what you will; I'm just here to share.
The Passionflower by Poofable
Fandom: Pokémon
Rated: K+
Length: 30 chapters; 193,660 words
Summary: Alfie hated Pokémon until the day she died, and she had no intentions of seeing the world through their eyes. Told that destiny is her guidance and courage is her strength, she must now battle the dark forces that have festered in the overlord's body and brought destruction and mistrust to an entire kingdom, all while trying to find what she never knew was lost.
HOLY CRAP THIS THING IS AMAZING. The author gives us a really cool interpretation of the Pokémon world here. I love all of these characters, especially the lead, and there's some great action here, too. If I have anything against it, it's that the ending is a tiny bit anticlimactic, but not by all that much. Highly recommended; I'd even go so far as to say you'd enjoy it even if you're not a Pokémon fan.
Even better? It has a sequel (in progress) called Life Beyond Listening that should certainly be read as well. Have fun!
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The Tale of a Lupe and a Faerie by RandomlyInsaneWhitePony
Fandom: Neopets
Rated: M
(WARNING: Chapters 10, 11, and 17 are NSFW)
Length: 26 chapters; 82,781 words
Summary: A scrawny and unusually large lupe escapes from the Neopian Pound and falls in love with the Soup Faerie. Will he win her heart? If he does, will society accept a relationship? Beware of teh fluffy cuteness!
So I'm a bit embarrassed to share this one. If you can't tell by the author's note in the second chapter, this is adapted from a roleplay, and it shows a lot of the time in the quality and formatting. I warn you: the author isn't kidding about that "beware teh fluffy cuteness" bit, either. This probably won't be something everyone will enjoy, given the very lighthearted and silly tone and the NSFW parts, especially given the pairing. Also, the fic takes a dark turn around the 20th chapter that I found to be a bit frustrating, and the story ends on a bit of a downer when you stop and think about it like I did. I'm honestly not certain if that's where the author(s) intended it to stop or if they just gave up; it's a bit vague.
Well, your mileage may vary here, but I definitely enjoyed myself with this. A part of me wants to see Blaze (the titular Lupe) to be recruited into the PPC, because he's just so much fun, but I can't make the call on that. Just sharing a thought. ^^
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<a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7864510/1/PokemonJourneysAaronsNewExperience">Pokemon Journeys: Aaron's New Experience
Fandom: Pokémon
Rated: M
(NOTE: Current chapters are worksafe. If the author continues this work past Ch. 16, however, I cannot guarantee this)
Length: 16 chapters; 54,660 words
Summary: A heartbroken college student makes an amazing discovery. Pokemon become real and he quickly befriends a Zorua. What happens as they slowly become more than friends? Read and find out. Rated M for language, violence, and a M/F Human/Zoroark lemon.
Despite the summary, there's no lemon. Yet. See above note in bold.
This one's sort of like the Neopets fanfic above in that it's a case of "Your Mileage May Vary," but in this case, I'm not certain what to think of it, either. There's a lot going for it: the author does a decent job explaining how this world works and there's some genuinely funny moments, some good character development for the leads, and a lot of good action sequences.
On the down side, there's some moments that are just grating, like where the author goes on about pointless things (nothing controversial or insulting, just... pointless) to the point where I start skimming to the important bits. The revelation that this is based around a real life break-up with his ex is disconcerting, especially since the MC is an obvious self-insert. There's a really uncomfortable appearance from the ex-girlfriend's avatar, and it's easily the weakest point in the fic. The fact that the MC develops some Stu qualities doesn't help, either.
Even so, the ending (or where the fic currently stops at Chapter 16; the author has expressed a desire to continue the story, but hasn't updated in nearly two months now after updates had previously been added every few days) does lift my spirits quite a bit. The author is actually taking the relationship between these two characters very seriously, and never writes a sex scene in any of the current chapters despite what the summary warns, showing that he's not just in it for cheap erotica, which I can respect.
This is definitely one you'll have to figure out for yourselves. *shrug*
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<a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6601875/1/NotStrongEnough">Not Strong Enough by FalconMage
Fandom: Final Fantasy X
Rated: M
(WARNING: Fanfic is NSFW)
Length: Single chapter; 9,409 words
Summary: This is a one-shot story about Kimahri and an OC. Contains M/M stuff and all those crap. Read at your own risk. Oh, and I think this could be categorize as a furry story too. Isn't Kimahri considered as a furry..? Read it, if you like. Haters, welcome. :D
Ugh. Can you believe I read that summary and thought this wouldn't be that bad? Seriously. I figured this'd just be some mindless slash that would be harmless and entertaining to read. I'm kinda silly, huh?
Well, okay, it's not the slash itself that bothers me. Really, that part's pretty standard. It's how the author leads into and justifies it. There's an awful, AWFUL amount of continuity flubs that the author uses to justify the canonxOC slash pairing. And these aren't tiny things either. I won't give details in this post (there's some massive spoilers for the actual game, but I will say that if you've ever played FFX (or are at least familiar enough with the plot), you'll notice the issues immediately. Kimahri is pretty OOC, as far as I can tell. Also, part of me is curious now at the plausibility of the Stu in this continuum, given his species and supposed relationship to Kimahri. I say kill it.
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<a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7471170/1/LucarioandtheMysteriousMagicianof_Paris">Lucario and the Mysterious Magician of Paris by LuckyNekoNinjaMaiden
Fandom: Pokémon
Rated: M
(WARNING: EXTREMELY NSFW)
Length: Single chapter; 18,237 words
Summary: A punk Lucario meets another Lucario in Paris, France who is a talented magician. But that Lucario is actually a Zoroark who wants to make him his new sex slave. Zoroark/Lucario/Lopunny. M/M/M . Rated M for many reasons. You've been warned.
OW. Just... OW. The vomit-inducing sappiness outside the NSFW bits are bad enough, but the sex scenes by themselves are uncomfortable (gee, go figure there, huh? But seriously, some of these just make my skin crawl). Father-son incest (admittedly adoptive son, but the author makes no effort to mask the incestuous overtones) that, while I'm certain the son isn't actually underage, feels a LOT like pedophilia given how it's written.
And there are is just so. much. sex. between the three characters in this story that it gets annoying really quick and you start begging for it to end, and that's not even going into just how stupid the characters are. +1 to the "Inconceivably quick development of Stockholm Syndrome" count while we're at it. Sweet merciful Arceus, this was ridiculous! KILL IT NOW! Eugh, I need a drink... *grabs a soda and pretends to get drunk*
By the way, for those of you who are masochistic, this author has an entire gallery of fics that are all fair game for sporking as well. Or, at the least, every one I read seemed to be. Yeah, it's true, I enjoy inflicting pain on myself. *cringe*
===
Well, hate to end this on a sour note, but there you have it! Hopefully, I'll find more I can bring in the near future, and maybe have a larger percentage of actual goodfic next time. Oh, well! At the least, you can still spork it. :D -
Ikkitousen Badfic (NSFW) by
on 2012-07-26 12:08:00 UTC
Link to this
Ikki Tousen: Dragon Tinkerer by Dragonrulez
Fandom: Ikkitousen
Rated: M (NSFW)
Length: 1 chapter, 10625 words.
Summary: A new threat has come to the Region of Kanto and will change the war between the Fighters in the worse way. Can a strange teen that lives on the streets with unkown and extraordinary powers save and change the Fighters fates or fall victum to a old grudge? OCxHugeHarem.
What is this I... Gods above. The hero, Oswald (an anachronistic name – Ikkitousen is set in Japan), is a blatant Stu. He's got heterochromia (considering that aside from animé hair physique is pretty much normal, it's odd to say the least), a trajeck past, Sue-per powers (basically ESP, which people in this continuum don't have), and he butts himself into Canon rather blatantly (though somewhat plausibly).
The fic's writing quality is poor – while there aren't a lot of spelling mistakes, its tense constantly shifts between past and present, and it's got a large amount of malapropisms, including some really weird ones – 'souls' for 'soles', 'pump' for 'bump', 'tune' for 'tone'...
Sonsaku Hakufu is also very slightly OOC, but all of the other canons are fine. -
Gravity Falls NSFW/NSFB by
on 2012-07-25 02:50:00 UTC
Link to this
Just so you know, there's lots of rape in this. You have been warned.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8349024/1/Grunkle_Stan_the_Rapist
Make up your own mind on whether this is good or bad, because I just skimmed over it. But let's face it... you can tell it's not gonna be quite right just from the title. The commenters seem to think the author has mental health issues, and I suspect they're right.
But there's one thing that sticks out to me, and it's that one main character murders another and has a third framed and sent to jail for it - all in one paragraph at the end of a chapter, and it's pretty much completely glossed over.
Wow. Just... wow.
Oh, and it's only two chapters so far, but that's over the past three days, and it seems likely to continue further. Brace yourselves. -
Good Heavens. by
on 2012-07-25 07:50:00 UTC
Link to this
DAVD.
Now. -
Some Goodfic by
on 2012-07-25 00:30:00 UTC
Link to this
Still looking for goodfic?
The Pony POV series by AlexWarlorn
(Links: http://alexwarlorn.deviantart.com/gallery/32745467
http://alexwarlorn.deviantart.com/gallery/32848832)
Fandom: My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Remarks: This series takes a look at the psychological effects of Discordation... and it's not always pretty. Seriously, something bad happens to EVERYPONY. Still, the characters do come out stronger in the end... but they have to work for it.
A History of Magic by Danny Barefoot
(Link:http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6964876/1/A_bHistory_b_of_bMagic_b)
Fandom: Puella Magi Modoka Magica
Remarks: This is a great fic looking at possible historical Puella Magi... and how their lives were affected by their Wishes... and in some cases, make their ends even more depressing. The ending's rather bittersweet, but that should be expected from this series...
Marie D. Suesse and the Mystery New Pirate Age! by Phalanx
(Link: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6328454/1/Marie_D_Suesse_And_The_Mystery_New_Pirate_Age)
Fandom: One Piece
Remarks: Basically, this fic takes the cliches of OC/Mary Sue fanfiction and tears them to shreds, while presenting them via an interesting and intriguing story that keeps you hanging. -
Warrior Cat's My Immortal by
on 2012-07-24 13:09:00 UTC
Link to this
T-there is no other way of describing this. It is that bad.
http://starkitsprophecy.webstarts.com/the_story.html -
Random Theory/Tv Tropes copy paste by
on 2012-07-25 02:33:00 UTC
Link to this
Hollyleaf is not actually acting OOC (as compared to Warriors canon).
Instead, Hollyleaf is the one character, canon or otherwise, who is not affected by StraGlem's Mary Sue-ness. Obsessed with the warrior code as Hollyleaf is, she's outraged by the abomination against the code that is Satrglame - a cat who is not only the halfClan kit of a medicine cat (who is himself the halfClan kit of a medicine cat, and should know better) but also: has two cats from other Clans, one a leader, falling at her feet; kills needlessly without a second thought; becomes the leader without having trained an apprentice or even having been deputy, ever; and makes a cat who's also never had an apprentice her deputy. Confronted with the walking code violation, Hollyleaf has lost sight of her original purpose and is willing to do literally anything to destroy GleamStare, even an Enemy Mine with the Dark Forest (who are the only other cats resistant to SarGkaem's influence). This is even in character at least mostly for her: a Knight Templar willing to go to any length to "protect" the warrior code from its defilers. -
Ah, trollfic. by
on 2012-07-25 00:41:00 UTC
Link to this
Didn't somebody around here want to resuscitate Troll Division? This is prime fodder for it.
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There's no way this isn't a troll by
on 2012-07-24 23:08:00 UTC
Link to this
Seriously, how do you spell the word "one" incorrectly? All the character bios are copied from the book too, except for the OCs.
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Well that was odd... by
on 2012-07-24 19:36:00 UTC
Link to this
I think there may have been more spelling mistakes than correctly spelled words!
I don't really know the setting, but anything that gets compared to My Immortal makes me curious (and, oh, how I have regretted that on some occasions).
Sadly I had nothing stronger than orange juice to keep me going through reading it, so I quickly gave up on the fic itself, but carried on skimming through the author's notes, as I'd found the earlier ones to be particularly amusing. My favourite line from one of these has to be 'HBut thigs are guna be better no inteh clams!
Now, that one line taken out of context doesn't make a lot of sense, but... well... it didn't really make a lot of sense in context either.
Funniest bit of the actual story for me (or at least, the funniest bit that I was able to bring myself to pay attention to) is the '10' commandments, of which there are in fact 11, with number 10 appearing twice, and 3 not getting a look in.
The similar numbering system used for the chapter numbers also amused/confused me in equal measures, are we meant to be reading it as presented or are we meant to read the chapters in numerical order? Personally, I'm not sure that reading the chapters in a different order would actually alter the level of incomprehensibility. -
*stares at screen in shock* by
on 2012-07-24 15:45:00 UTC
Link to this
I'm not familiar with the canon at all, so I just skimmed, but...
The character thing at the top takes up more room on my screen than the first six chapters.
What.
And I only read the first chapter. I don't I have enough tea to try reading it all.
...
There also isn't a chapter six. Huh. -
What. *blinks* by
on 2012-07-24 15:11:00 UTC
Link to this
No, really. What?
How can anyone not understand something as basic as the function of a spellcheck? *stares* And that's not even covering the length of the chapters, or the content, or the level of fail here.
I never really got into that series, but...[bleep]. Wow. That's bad. And... Wow. At least MI was kind of funny, in it's own weird little way. But... *blinks*
Excuse me, I have to go find some thing that makes sense. *leaves* -
A good darkfic by
on 2012-07-21 21:03:00 UTC
Link to this
Hoo boy is this dark. It's incredibly well-written, but... *shivers* The only NSFW details are what your imagination puts into the blanks, so... Fair warning.
It's called Mandragora. It's set about the end-ish of Year Two, when the mandrake potions are being made to restore everyone who's been petrified.
It's rated T, close to 1500 words in length, and is a one-shot. And oh boy is it terrifying. The author (NothingPretentious) has some other stuff that's also worth a read, and it is not nearly as dark, thank [insert deity here].
Just...sleep with a nightlight after reading Mandragora, okay? I'm going to. -
... by
on 2012-07-21 21:22:00 UTC
Link to this
That's... chilling.
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Oh yeah. by
on 2012-07-21 22:14:00 UTC
Link to this
*gives everyone who's read it cookies and hot cocoa*
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Homestuck goodfic by
on 2012-07-21 17:53:00 UTC
Link to this
http://archiveofourown.org/works/266683/chapters/419402
Miracle Child, by bramblePatch
More than two sweeps after being returned to a restored Alternia, the trolls face impending adulthood and banishment from the planet. Gamzee Makara fully expects to be culled on conscription for poor health and sopor addiction - what he doesn't count on is the personal attention and protection of the Grand Highblood.
Post-game fic starring Gamzee Makara. It's also updated more frequently on the Homestuck kink meme, and links to those updates as well as supplemental world-building material can be found on the tumblr ask blog (http://miraclechildask.tumblr.com/) It also has its own TV Tropes page. All in all, a good fic. There are quite a few OCs, but none come close to being Sues, and they all contribute to the plot. Currently one of my favorite Homestuck fics.
http://boyfriendleaders.tumblr.com/tagged/boyfriendleaders/chrono
Boyfriendleaders
Part tumblr ask blog, part fanfic. It's another post-game fic, only this time it involves all the surviving characters, not just the trolls. The story itself revolves around John and Karkat's eventual romantic relationship. It's surprisingly emotional, going from hilarious to heartwarming to just plain soulcrushing. Everyone is delightfully in character, and the development of John and Karkat's relationship is absolutely wonderful (not to mention realistic). -
While I'm here, depressing USUK, anyone? by
on 2012-07-20 21:19:00 UTC
Link to this
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7232955/1/I_am_not_the_one_who_will_cry
I am not the one who will cry, by ButterFish
Fandom: Hetalia: Axis Powers
Rated: T
Romance/Friendship
Summary: Alfred becomes a volunteer and has to do some cleaning at Arthur Kirkland's house. The guy is ill and needs help; but he's incredibly rude! But as Alfred gets closer to him, he learns to like the man. But is it good falling for someone who is dying? -USUK
Length: 1 chapter, 19,854 words.
Warning: Character death and human AU.
Okay, this story is, in my opinion, very emotional. It's one of the few fanfics that have actually made me cry, and that's saying something, especially considering the amount of angsty, depressing fics I read.
It's definitely worth a read, though, if you don't mind the possibility of breaking into tears.
I really can't think of much else to say about it though, so why not just read it?
It's a bit long for one chapter, but ah well. -
Blarf! by
on 2012-07-20 15:32:00 UTC
Link to this
I have read that last one, and I would like to say
DO NOT WANT!!! -
Crackfic, anyone? by
on 2012-07-20 14:44:00 UTC
Link to this
MLP:FiM crossed over with the Cthulhu Mythos. I'm not an expert in either canon, but so far I'm enjoying it.
The first chapter is here: http://drhoz.livejournal.com/918169.html , it's probably simplest to run a tag search to get subsequent chapters. Fic is still in progress. -
An Impressivly Bad Crossover by
on 2012-07-20 10:40:00 UTC
Link to this
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5222479/1/the_shock_of_a_lifetime
the shock of a lifetime (capitalization theirs) by lana123 co-written with evie898.
Fandom(s): Primeval/Inheritance Cycle, but The Doctor and Superman turn up and there are several noncanon species: Werewolf, witches, vampires and a leprechaun.
Rated: T
Length: 38 Chapters (Yes, I read every single one), but 106,551 words.
Summery: It was a normal day for Lana, Evie, Scoble, Megan and Caitlain. But that all changed when an anomaly opened in there class room and Murtagh, hansom and ever, jumped out and pulled them back through to his home world, Alegasia. after book 3 in 2 POV's.
Where to start? First chapter they burn half their teacher's face off and laugh about it. Second chapter nothing happens. There are examples of bad SPaG. For example Lana doesn't put a capital letter at the beginning of sentences and Evie combines misspellings with faintly Urple prose.
My main problem with this is the species. There is a chapter where literally everyone (except Evie, who is Galabatorix's daughter) reveals they aren't human. This is started by Lana, who proclaims "I AM A GODFORSAKEN ELF!" Later on they meet up with yet more inserted friends, all of whom are also random species.
Now what really annoys me, is that Captain Hilary Becker (I'm allowed Lust Objects, right?) is Superman. No explanation for all the times he's been hurt in canon, no reason given for why, just Becker is Superman.
A few quotes (please say if this isn't okay): "It had been a full moon last night and would be again tomorrow." "How are we going to shave her now!" "If you look up to the skies you might be able to see saphire in the is also a call for 'friends of evie'" "I mean people don't just go blind without a cause do they? Maybe elves were different." (Yes, a character goes blind for literally no reason, the author doesn't even know.)
I want to kill this, but a) I don't yet have permission, b) it's not a two Agent job, c) I really don't want to tackle this for a first mission.
So, I will claim it (unless I'm told it's actually brilliant), but I'll see if I can find a co-writer once (if) I get permission. -
One definite badfic... -sob- by
on 2012-07-20 03:50:00 UTC
Link to this
Internal Instinct by Ideasnow53
Fandom: Bionicle
Rated: M
Length: 1 chapter; 2,411 words
Summary: Mata Nui x Kiina oneshot. these two were made for each other. funny ending with Teridax, Mata Nui x Kiina lemon.
By the Spirit, where do I even begin. It's uncanon even before it gets to the sour yellow fruit bit, as it starts with Mata Nui returning with the power source he needs for the prototype robot while it's only been "days" (and I quote) after the Battle of Roxtus. No, no no no, he didn't go up to the Valley of the Great Beings until approximately five months after that battle, so one down right there.
The prose is awkward and odd and painful to read, and that's before the dialogue, which is OOC and also painful. (Mata Nui uses a contraction ["I'm"] in his first line of dialogue, for the love of the Great Beings!) The timeline is all messed to Karzahni, as Mata Nui is trying to convince Raanu to let him use the prototype robot (which the Glatorian and Agori are using as their home) to fight Makuta Teridax, when in canon Mata Nui convinced Raanu to let him do that before going on his quest to find the battery.
Gresh is written as a paranoid little pest, suggesting Mata Nui would use the abilities of his giant robot body for destructive purposes when he has seen Mata Nui be nothing but noble and selfless, and the words put in his mouth say Mata Nui thinks he is better than them when, again, Gresh respects Mata Nui. Ackar's pretty much in character when he admonishes Gresh, though, which is a small light in the shadows.
The dialogue is, again, painful. In addition, Mata Nui knows more things in more detail than it seems like he should, like the Great Beings' original plan to have two giant robots for the reforming of Spherus Magna and that Makuta Teridax was in fact destined for one of them.
Then the sex scene. Not only is it not erotic in the slightest, the euphemisms it uses aren't even interesting ("love" for... well, everything from tingling in the 'nads to the 'nads themselves, as well as "heat" for erotic feelings), and the sex scene itself is completely uncanon because Mata Nui A, doesn't have the bits for it, and B, as a creation of the Great Beings along the lines of the inhabitants of his giant robot body AKA the Matoran Universe, couldn't feel sexual attraction if he wanted to. Greg Farshtey said so, no one has to like it but it is going against canon.
Also there was one line where the Mask of Life apparently has opinions on 'forbidden love' and I don't even care anymore.
Then... -sigh- Then Teridax... notices that the two had sex... and there was a mention of potential nosebleeds... and words in his mouth more appropriate to the typical teenager than the suave scheming son of a Doom Viper that Teridax really is... and ugh okay it's terrible and there are tense shifts and a lack of scene breakers and Teridax was freaking out which is not the right wording if he's disturbed by something PLEASE to be retaining the dignity of an evil schemer with more plans than months he's been alive and... and ugh. Also not much description anywhere, yay not.
I think the Mata Nui is a replacement, what with the whole him having equipment appropriate for sexing thing. Gresh is probably just possessed and Raanu is OOC a bit, I'm not sure about Kiina but she's more OOC than Ackar (but then he's pretty much entirely IC so that's not hard). Teridax will need neuralyzing and that will be a fun little adventure for any agents going into this thing won't it. Anyone got a way to neuralyze a spirit possessing a 40 million foot tall robot?
Verdict: Somebody forcefeed me Bleeprin before I get my hands on a spork and cause injury to my eyes.
-
New Mission: Avengers. by
on 2012-07-20 21:27:00 UTC
Link to this
Mission
Homepage
Ah well, Saline and Priyala have a new mission. As always, concrit, on the story as well as on the page, is welcome. Errors will be collected and updated after a while. Thanks to my betas for putting up with me.
Minis:
Midguard and Asguard the mini Nick Furys. These are common misspellings, so I'm not sure if they're already taken.
PS: I'll be without internet for a week, but you guys keep posting, I'll read it after I return. -
Rageworthy fic, wonderful mission. by
on 2012-07-26 03:35:00 UTC
Link to this
I appreciate the faking out of Loki at the end, as well. Yay for villainous characters. :D
~Puck -
Dun-dun-duuh! by
on 2012-07-22 19:47:00 UTC
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Nice cliffhanger at the end!
I like how Saline got to use her background and personality. It's always exciting to see agents solve a mission in a way that other agents couldn't have used. I try to do so in my own missions. -
Nice Job by
on 2012-07-21 01:11:00 UTC
Link to this
Oh, sweet Sharess.
One: Loki is a shapeshifter. He gets around fine in mortal clothes in Thor. Also, he is an illusion-er, so contacts and suchlike are unnecessary. Three: PEPPER POTTS. SHE EXISTS. Four: The only way she could be half frost giant and make it make any sort of sense is if she was Lokispawn, and that's assuming the canon version fathered Sleipnir and the rest of his children. Five: Why in the name of Madoka's Puella Magi Heaven was Loki moping in ASGARD?!?!
Sorry, I just... needed to do that. This was a great mission, and pretty funny. I do think you missed a few charges (Pepper and Loki being in Asgard) but it was still good. By the way, can I have Asguard? I kinda imagine that mini-Fury wearing widdle Viking armor. -
If he's not taken, he's yours. by
on 2012-07-21 10:02:00 UTC
Link to this
Also... Pepper and Loki in Asgard? Wait. What. Pepper wasn't even mentioned. And I do think that Loki was taken back to Asgard at the end of the movie. I doubt that he'd be whining in his bed, though.
And thank you very much for implying that they, by all means, should be related. Thank you. -
Re: If he's not taken, he's yours. by
on 2012-07-21 21:33:00 UTC
Link to this
That thing about Pepper is supposed to mean that SHE is Tony's girlfriend, since--well, most of the movie canon. This Mabry chick is usurping her, and that's why the fact she wasn't mentioned ticks me off so much, not that she wasn't in Asgard.
Also, shouldn't Loki be in some kind of, you know, cell for all his attempted-genocide-and-mass-murder? At least he shouldn't be able to teleport, if he's not in a dungeon or anything. -
Indeed he should. by
on 2012-07-21 22:36:00 UTC
Link to this
And I don't think he teleported himself. Otherwise he wouldn't end up in some random girl's kitchen... still, the fact that he can get out. Even if it's by the means of intervention from outside. Hell, in the fic it sounds like that's just, like, his room. And he's sulking in it like a teenager.
About Mabry, I chose not to really do anything about that since she's just mentioned once and it would have just been chunky to have to deal with that too. As said, I don't get the whole thing with ignoring Pepper. Maybe it has to do with another fic by the same author. -
Mission link doesn't seem to work. (nm) by
on 2012-07-20 21:51:00 UTC
Link to this
-
"Networking issues." by
on 2012-07-20 22:24:00 UTC
Link to this
Seems like I just got the stuff up before these issues started. I can't access anything either.
Fancy some tea while we wait?
-
Permissions, take two. by
on 2012-07-20 22:27:00 UTC
Link to this
Ok, let's take a deep breath and cross our fingers, shall we?
Here is my second post for Permission on the board. I put a good deal of time into this and have gotten pretty invested in it, so, while it is unlikely that it will be accepted, I really need some concrit to point me in the right direction if this is badly done. Well, what can I say but read carefully and don’t be afraid to post your most scathing replies; I learn best from such comments.
I request that they join the Department of Floaters, due to the fact that both the characters, who are both newbies, and myself, don’t know what their talents are for sporking.
The badfic I wish to start off with is http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8235051/1/High_School_dose_it_ever_end
Agent Seanoic- A less stu-ish than average stu, he was found in a Fire Emblem badfic. He was recruited to the PPC because of a sympathetic agent, who had also been a Stu in his own right. Male, relatively tall, with brown hair and sideburns, and is stronger than normal. He tends to not like fighting, as his above-par strength could give away the fact that he used to be a Stu, which is probably his greatest fear. Apart from mimes, of course. When he fights, he uses a bow.
Agent Reid- She is decidedly less sympathetic towards Sues and Stu’s than her new partner. She hails from World 1, but tends not to talk much about her past. She was asked why, and responded with a simple, “Who would care? My past is pretty much as normal as the next guy”. Female of normal height with black hair and average strength. She tends to use a sword in combat. -
Denied. by
on 2012-07-20 22:43:00 UTC
Link to this
Chill out. Put more time into hanging around and learning. Read more missions. Observe. This is the nth time you've been told this.
You have no writing sample for us to base any decisions on.
Your proposed agents are very bland and have little information in regards to them or much of an indicated personality. -
Response by
on 2012-07-21 00:08:00 UTC
Link to this
I was afraid of putting too much information in, so I will revert to my draft for Agents Seanoic and Reid, and not sending the writing sample was a stupid mistake that I forgot to fix. Ok, hang around, and just chill. I have no problem with either of those.
-
Hang on. by
on 2012-07-21 00:17:00 UTC
Link to this
Have you even read the rest of July's response there?
"Chill out. Put more time into hanging around and learning. Read more missions. Observe. This is the nth time you've been told this."
Stop rushing to get this done. You are not going to get Permission any sooner if you just keep shoving requests at the PGs. In fact, I would hazard a guess that you are more likely to get turned down, because you are demonstrating a lack of respect for the other requests being made of you.
Forget about getting Permission for now, and do as you've been asked. Participate in Board talks. Read missions. Get a good, solid idea of how missions are done. Just please, for the love of [Insert Deity Here], listen.
Thank you.