Jan 2012 Archive, part a

I noticed that in your story Veronica said that Lisa would fade away due to not being a canon character when the fic ended.
I'd just like to say that if OCs and bit characters haven't perpetrated crimes against canon and would fit in, Sue or no Sue, these characters would simply be assimilated into the world as if they'd been there their entire lives.

Like July said, I've got a few questions relating to YW-verse.

First, if Lisa's a wizard-in-training, has she gone through her Ordeal yet? I guess I'd be lying if I said the prospect of that coming up in the course of a future mission didn't intrigue me. One of the things I really like about YW is that the PTBs can plausibly turn up anywhere, including other canons (though, in LotR, for instance, given that Morgoth is trapped in the Void, it's probably safe from any personal appearances by the Lone One). On the other hand, given that a wizard's Ordeal can a big freaking deal, occasionally world-changing, I'm a little leery, too. Do you have ideas about handling that, or has Lisa already gone through it? If she has gone through it, what happened? That's an important thing to know for a wizard character. Also, what does the Lone One look like to her? As I recall, It's supposed to look different to everyone (though I think even Diane Duane forgets this for convenience).

Second, new wizards have a lot more power at their disposal than more seasoned ones. I can tell you're making sure to limit how much she can do, so I'm not too concerned about that—actually the opposite. The nature of YW-verse is such that I'd really expect its magic to work anywhere, though of course the wizard would have to become intimately acquainted with a given world's name in the Speech in order to be effective at casting in it. I think the mechanics of YW-verse magic are limiting enough themselves, as long as they're borne firmly in mind and respected. I'd hate to see it nerfed beyond that.

Third, I am a little concerned about Lisa herself, based on the RP. While the fire was going on, Lisa tried putting it out and failed, and then this happened: "Lisa swore and went to go off and collapse on a couch. Maybe eat a cookie. She didn't really want to deal with other people's problems right now. Particularly when she was so new to magic."

Wizards are supposed to be combating entropy—Lisa agreed to it when she took the Wizard's Oath—and an indoor fire that could end up with people getting hurt or even killed seems to fall solidly into that category. "Dealing with other people's problems" is part of the contract, so her willingness to leave everyone to their fate really worries me, new to magic or not. As I recall, that sort of attitude can get a wizard stripped of the ability to use magic, and probably any memory of having been able to do so.

I see two options here: One, you're running with this characterization. If that's the case, I will expect a reckoning for her carelessness with the power she's been granted. If she doesn't take her Oath seriously, she's in big trouble.

Two, that was a fluke, and I will expect her to behave like a wizard.

On more of a side-note, I sort of assume her work in the PPC would be official errantry, since badfic is definitely a force for entropy (and one even the Lone Power may not like much, at that), but that doesn't mean other commissions can't come up. Since conflicts between one job and another could be really interesting, I'm curious if you've thought about it.

I think that's everything I wanted to say. I also second July's specific comments about the writing sample, though I'll note that solo missions do happen, if not generally to very new recruits. Still, they aren't encouraged or the norm, for the reasons July gave.

~Neshomeh, also holding off on a yea or nay for the time being.

1) Line breaks between paragraphs are your friends. They help the reader to differentiate between paragraphs when indentation is not used as part of the formatting.

2) Paragraph indentation is also your friend, but is usually not done on online documents due to the use of the tab key for other functions.

3) Sending solo agents out on missions isn't done. Spies- the agents from Intelligence- are solo, but their role is different from those who actively take charges and are close to the Sue and canons while doing their work. Agents are in pairs because a) it usually prevents them from doing something that is entirely idiotic or against the rules, b) putting two incompatible or clashing personalities into roles that force them to work together is funny, c) everyone needs help sometimes and a single agent with no backup does not stand a chance against a Sue or Stu who catches them unawares or is not caught unawares. Beyond that, the PPC would certainly never send a completely green agent out on a first mission alone. That is tantamount to sending them out to either die unpleasantly, or realize the opportunity they have been given and never returning and living a mostly quiet life in the world of one of their favorite canons.

4) There is no four.

5) Show. Do not tell. You did a great deal of 'tell' here in your sample. It doesn't convey anything. You are telling us what we are supposed to get out of your sample, rather than leaving it to be interpreted or up to the actions of your characters to evoke something. Being told things is not interesting, at all, in the realm of fiction. We read to learn and discover. The reason fanfiction is something so many of us read and write is because the books we read- when they are good- show things, so we can come up with our own interpretation of the reasons behind their actions and their motivations and so on. Telling leaves nothing to interpret. It is cut and dry. It is not engaging.

As an example, from your own piece:

“Well, you know. That’s life.” Veronica sipped her coffee. “But yeah… I’d like a partner…”
“Well…” Lisa felt very awkward all of a sudden. “I mean… you said you would have to recruit me.”

Changing it to show- but get across the same intent you are trying to do with telling results in the following:

“Well, you know. That’s life.” Veronica sipped her coffee. “But yeah… I’d like a partner…”

“Well…” Lisa fidgeted in her chair, rubbing the back of her neck. She didn't meet Veronica's eyes, instead looking down at the table. “I mean… you said you would have to recruit me.”

You can see the difference here, yes?

6) You have quite a few repetitive sentences in your writing sample. You have two sentences that begin with 'As' in consecutive order, and three more following it none too long after. This is noticeable. Readers notice this sort of thing. It is jarring.

7) In regards to your agents:

i) The uniform is black and the relevant department flashpatch unless it is Medical, who have armbands. That is what the uniform consists of: clothing- if the agent wears clothing- that is black, and a flashpatch.

ii)ll agents consider themselves real people. Of course they're real people, what else would they be? The term we use for agents that are from what is ostensibly is the real world is to say that they are from World One.

iii) Nice to see some younger agents again.

iv) As to Lisa, I believe that Neshomeh had some items she wanted to say or something. I'm not sure. I will leave it to her discretion to comment and elaborate and actually say whatever it is she was intending to say rather than speculating.



I'm going to err on the side of withholding permission, given what I have said above and the reasoning included in each section. That said, I suggest reading more missions and spending more time reading relevant side materials on the wiki and asking people questions when you have any.

BTW, what are your fandoms?

Read ALL the things! The same reaction I had when I first came across the PPC! :)

Welcome to the Board!

Have an explosive Christmas tree decoration, it's a leftover from one of my holiday, er, experiments... ^^;

Welcome to the forum, and have some invisible swords! Good for killing Sues without being blocked; just be careful not to cut yourself.

Hi, have some fudge!

Have fun in your stay and in your future prospects here!

Nice ta meetcha! Have some spiced, Bleeptodismal-laced apple cider; you're gonna need it.

Thanks for the Wiki Magic, hydrophobic water, chocolate, awesome-laced cookie, bag of pebbles, and Random Shiny Object. I will treasure them forever.

Hello, new guy! We love new guys!

I'm sure someone probably asked this already, but just to make sure I'm not missing anything...

What are your fandoms?

In any event, here. Have some Tournemire for the road: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BtcK-KHa1w

Greetings, new friend! Have a bag of Wiki Magic!

Welcome to the Board! Have some hydrophobic water! Fun to watch but not to eat.

Welcome to the Board, here, have some chocolate and enjoy your stay!

Here, have an awesome-laced cookie.

Welcome to the madhouse PPC! It's lovely to meet you! ^_^ Have a bag of pebbles and a Random Shiny Object.

We aren't that crazy.

...Most of the time. >.>

:)

What fandoms are you most interested in?

Is that from an actual badfic?

That's because my Agents too have a mini from MGLN (I wanted a mini Nanoha to blow up their RC regularly), and back then I said that Nanoha Takamichi was a mini-Unison Device.

However, since I actually didn't do any MGLN-based mission, it's sort of unofficial. If you have actually got a MGLN badfic in your hands, you get to decide what MGLN minis are. (And I'll edit a couple wiki articles and mission to match that. In most cases, it's a single word to change)

Looking forward to your first mission!

First: We do not leave characters from a canon- even Sues- to their fate in another canon. Especially not one that can be construed or is a torturous fate. If you remember in TOS, they got in trouble for shoving a Sue to be taken care of by Discworld elves, who are by no means nice or lovely and are incidentally avid carnivores.

Second note: Your request has a few paragraphs that don't have line break between them, such as that at the beginning.

'“Alicia-tan?” asked Yuuno, staring into her deep red orbs. “Huh? Oh, it’s nothing, Yuuno...” she replied, trying to ignore the snickering behind her--probably Vita or Nanoha, they were always spying on her and trying to steal Yuuno for themselves.' This should be two different paragraphs. New speaker, new paragraph.

Third note: The dialogue for Flowers is italicized. You did not do that in your sample.

That said, your writing is fairly crisp, and direct. There're no spelling errors, and only a few grammatical ones that your betas did not catch. 'Ah, thanks, Lana. She’s awake, so we may as well get this over with.” replied the familiar without turning around.' The second sentence in that line of dialogue should end with a comma. You do this when the tag for the line interacts with it "X," Y said roughly. Or: "Z," grumbled Y."

You definitely have room for improvement as your sample shows, but I think you also have the ability to do so, and in spades. I'm already a fan of the writing style you've gone with here.

Consider permission granted.

... Now with three times the fun!

Welcome to the PPC man!

Here, have some Arthur Honegger for the road: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKXiYIiVrbc

Another who expresses interest in this series. This pleases me.

Here, have a Pure Water. It will raise your resistance... but not to badfics, unfortunately.

Have some cookies. They're yummy.

They were also definitely not mixed in a bowl used to trap diseased rats... Nope, totally not.

I think.

Let me check.

Welcome to the madhouse!

Have this random jewel-encrusted key. I have no idea what it opens, but if you ever find yourself dropped into the Resident Evil continuum I'm sure you'll find something...

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, won't you?

Greetings, new friend! Have a Zerg rush!

Hello and welcome to the forum! As a welcome gift, have three Famous Fangirl Trading Card booster packs (ten cards to a pack).

Hi there! Have a bunny that can decapitate people!

Hi! Have some fudge!

Welcome to PPC, CruentusDeus! Take this Bleepnerary, this drink will heal and remove the damages that you might have in reading badfics.

Here, have an artifact steel pick!

Welcome to the very odd club, and have some Bleepolate truffles while you're at it.

I have a ROM of Fire Emblem 6 somewhere, but I never did actually play it; I kept on crying and restarting any time someone died.

I don't actually play it, because I don't do strategy games (I keep meaning to try one some day), but nonetheless: Zerg Rush kekekekekekekekekeke? :)

Welcome to the PPC, good sir/ma'am/thing in front of a monitor! Have an invisible car!

Oh man, another Starcraft fan! What's your favourite race? I'm a Terran.

Welcome aboard!

If you have any questions or just want to get to know someone who's been here awhile, feel free to shoot me a few over email- which should be clickable with my name- or through Gtalk (same address as email), or AIM, YIM, and MSN (fairladypsyche/fairladypsyche/fairladypsyche AT hotmail.com).

I love talking to new people, so feel free if you want to start up a conversation or anything. ^_^

...is really, really hard. Mostly, listen to what's been said: it's pretty much all solid. In general, when I review bad or simply somewhat shaky fic, I try to remain absolutely clear. If you're concerned about the quality of the review--in either content or phrasing--I'd also suggest getting the review beta-read by someone who A) has some knowledge of the canon in question, B) probably takes the time and pain of reading the fic, and C) will be as honest with you as you want to be with the author. It probably is more tactful to avoid calling the character a Sue outright, and I agree with VM's reason of not using it due to vague definition far more than anything else. (Keep in mind that I am, in general, far more confrontational as a reviewer than I should be.)

One of the hardest things I've found to deal with in the DCU in particular is that so many writers have worked on it that defining "OOC" can be difficult beyond belief, but if it's truly that bad, just be prepared to cite sources. I'm sure if the author has betas at all, then he/she/thing is convinced they're fantastic, but it never hurts to offer a few suggestions about what to look for in a Beta.

As for the mission material thing: as Neshomeh said, that's no reason not to review. It may delay things, mind, especially if the author really does improve. Plus, wanting to do this is... really nice and incredibly admirable of you, and that's always worth it.

Oh yeah, and you're looking at the DCU. The Badfic will never end and is probably deep enough to do diving contests in. I've been afraid to dip my feet in for fear of Death or Permanent Mental Damage. That said: if you ever want a partner along for the ride with one? I am going to be horribly selfish and self-serving and offer to hop on-board. *sheepish*

I've felt the same way in the past, but I'm with VM: go ahead and review, and if the author receives it well and makes improvements, ask for their permission to spork the old version. It would be in poor taste to spork it after improvements have been made without the author's consent. If they're really making an effort, there's no sense dwelling on past mistakes.

On the other hand, if they turn out to be unreceptive and act like a jerk about it, spork away.

It can be disappointing to lose materials, but remember that there's always more badfic out there. If you end up not being able to spork this one, something else will come along, and you'll have done a good deed by promoting goodfic rather than just thrashing badfic. Fear of losing PPC material shouldn't deter you from reviewing. {= )

~Neshomeh

If this fic is ALREADY bad, right now, and you don't need it to be 'finished' to spork it (as in, if you sporked it you could get a good story out of the 'badness' with rising action -> climax -> falling action) what you can do is copy the text of the fic as it is right now and THEN leave the review.

If she changes the story, you have a snapshot of the badness as it is at this exact moment. If she does end up fixing it, that can even be written into the sporking, too! Remember, Spidey3000 was handled by his own author in the past.

I don't think by sporking it you'd disrespect the author if she improves. If the current, unedited work is genuinely terrible, and it's the Sue, not the author... As long as you spork it with respect for the author and in the spirit of the PPC/in good humor it should be fine. At least in my eyes.

You could leave an honest review, letting the author know what problems you have perceived in her story and tips on how to fix them, and then PM or ask her by review if she minds if you PPC the older version.

As for the Sue thing-- it's possible to point out the flaws in the character without calling her a Sue. That's become such a loaded term it can be hard to use without any kind of issues, partly because the criteria are so vague. Instead, focus on why the character doesn't work, and how the Riddler is off character-- and how the two are related.

Leaving good reviews isn't always easy, but if the author takes crit well, it can be really satisfying. Mostly just be honest-- "You've got issues here, here, and here, but you're doing this well and I think if you fix this, this, and that, the story could come off a lot better."

It's a pain, but we are here to promote goodfic, not just slash badfic. And it does get easier to write stuff like that with practice-- like anything else, the more you do it, the better you get. Good luck, San.

...I'm not brave enough to read this.

'Bout on par with Cupcakes. Better written, but still not horribly scarring.

... some unhealthy obsession with Rainbow Dash in badfic. Does anybody have an explanation for this?

Aside from that, my hate for this fic burns with the force of a thousand Class-O stars.

No no no no no no nononononononononononononono
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You know something's terrible if I forsake proper grammar to express my horror! The fact that it was decently written only makes it worse! By the Emperor why?!

Wh-what is... I... *SOB*

I have not been so horrified since I made the mistake of reading Cupcakes... and at least Cupcakes kept Pinkie weirdly and creepily IC personality-wise, if not action-wise.

WHY, FANDOM? WHYYYYY?

Where's the Bleepka? I need it badly right now.

Seriously... someone please just kill it. I don't think I trust myself to stay calm and restrained if I did it myself...

I don't know anything about this Rainbow Dash but I can tell that a lot of stuff don't mix in here...

Violence, blood, gore, and darkness does not mix with anything that does not portray such things at all. I'd say that the author must have been sadistic, dark, disturbed, and/or bored enough to write this sick pile of cow manure.

May Elimine guide this author's poor soul to the right path... if s/he have any.

*rocks back and forth in the fetal position*

Is there a category for people in HQ who aren't agents, like the people in Medical?

Still plugging for Heather Draconius, by the way.

Checking the Talk page again, I thought it was voted that you guys were going to keep Aveline Vagan's page. The discussion on Aveline Vagan as it appears on the talk page:

"Aveline Vagan. First appearance of an "Impetus Miserabilis" Sue-wraith. My vote: keep.

Concur Guvnor Of Space 10:35, December 29, 2011 (UTC)"

Okay, first of all, I want to say I rather enjoyed the story; the characterization was lovely, as were all the little side details.

Things like Jenni actually aging just to match what Henry would expect, and Suicide and his interesting choice of shirts were lovely, and added to the overall feeling of the piece within the theme of most Ten Years Hences.

However, as I mentioned before, I was disappointed with the writing here in some parts. Normally the things you and Tungsten write are rather high quality- solo or together- but you both left a lot of rough spots to the point that while it was a lovely story, the overall writing made it seem more likely a lightly edited roleplay.

Roughly the point when Henry admits that he said 'some stuff' is around when these rough points begin to kick in.

"You already said some stuff?" Suicide repeated. The kid was laying it on kind of thick, but he also had a point. Suicide's partners might go insane a lot, but they had one of the lowest rates of mutilating injury in the PPC—mainly because he took all the damage himself. Henry would probably be safe if he trained with Suicide . . . wait a second. "I'm being manipulated, aren't I," he said dryly, finishing off his kefir. "You Robinsons are good at that. And said what stuff?"

Henry cringed. Mouthing off always seemed like a good idea at the time, but once you stopped being angry it didn't take long to turn into guilt. Now Su'd caught him trying to flatter his way out of it to boot, which was even worse. "Well . . . she wasn't listening. Or she was listening to the wrong things, and . . . " Suicide didn't look impressed with the excuses. Henry took a deep breath and plunged into it. "I might've sortakinda saidshewasaSue." He stared at a spot on the floor slightly to the right.

For several paragraphs, from this section on, the POV and accompanying narration rapidly switch back and forth. There was also an awkward mix of show and tell that would have worked better if the piece was entirely from one POV, but as it stands, it was being used as the sort of shortcut you see in RPs- getting the most information across to the other player in as quickly an accessible way as you can without breaking the narration or going out of character.

While it works well in RP, it can be a bit confusing with other works, and I did occasionally feel like it was hitting me over the head here, because the moment one portion that was backing Henry's POV was done hopping up and down to arract my attention, I was getting hit up the head with Suicide's rather straightforward end of things.

This whole section was lackng in transitions to smooth that sort of jerkiness, which was somewhat strange. Your writing style and Tungsten's normally complement each other and blend well, but this story was lacking in those usual smooth transitions, which again, helped to contribute to it reading, overall, like it was a lightly edited RP.

That said, the later portion of the story, with Jenni and Suicide interacting didn't quite suffer from the same rough POV switches, the mix of show and tell, and lack of transitions. This is possibly because Suicide's background POV information had already been filled and added in during his conversation with Henry, so there wasn't as much of a hard toss happening.


Beyond that, again, I did enjoy the story, I just think it should have been- and I was expecting it to be- somewhat more smoothly written technically, given the writers.

Also, this has completely reminded me I need to add my TYH to the wiki article there.

I like character stuff, and this was well done character stuff. Props to you and Tungsten Monk on that. I really don't have anything critical to say about this; the character interactions where believable, and of course the spelling and grammar were find. I'm just sorry it took me so long to get around to actually reading this.

Very well written, very heart-warming. I do have a question, though: What's gonna happen when 2018 and 2019 really role around?

That was an incredibly sweet little one-shot there, Nesh. Props to Tungsten Monk as well, for making Suicide such an awesome dude.

In case you can't tell, I quite liked it. :D

I believe in a case where there is no description of the character, the dummy would look like a dummy. In the case of a second-person fic, it could look like whoever is looking at it. For instance, if you and I were both looking at it, I would see myself and you would see yourself.

In addition, Sue-Wraiths often have few qualities of their own, and are merely sparkles layered over another character in the case of possession. Many recruited Sues, once the sparkles are stripped away, have at least a few traits of their own that may become seeds for an eventually-realized personality. Strip the sparkles out of a wraith, many times, and you are left with well... nothing. In cases of Possession, the Wraith is what an agent aims to remove.

In cases of POV situations and use of dummies... I dunno. Maybe you could seal one inside a golem? But the thing is that in those cases, the wraiths are locked into 'I' and 'You' and may be dangerous for other agents to interact with. Most agents live in third-person POV. A character that exists only in first or second person POV may not even be able to interact with others in HQ.

I believe the reason Wraiths are not recruited is that they require a body in order to do anything. So, if you were to recruit one, you would have to supply a body for it or it would dissipate. Then, once a body was supplied, you would have to find a way to feed it. Since they live off of the emotional energies of the beings they possess, it would be difficult to find a sustained source of nourishment.

Long story short, it is very unlikely that one could be recruited.

I'm going to be somewhat blunt with you, so I apologize if my tone seems somewhat harsh at times. It's nothing personal, it's just the way I sometimes approach these things. I apologize in advance if I cause you offense in some way.

First off, I’m not going to bother talking about the length of the piece. Enough people have already brought up that particular point in this thread, so there’s no point in retreading that path. I’ll just say that I agree with JulyFlame and Joe on that point and move on.

A major sticking point for me was the way the Stu was used. For all his abilities and blustering, I never felt like the Stu was any threat to your agents. Even when he was torturing Cindy, I wasn’t really that concerned. Part of that was probably due to the fact that you picked an easy ‘leaves no marks’ kind of torture for him to use. Add that to how easily Cindy seemed to bounce back and the whole thing felt like something of a copout. If you want to show how tough a villain is by having them torture a hero, you’ve got to be willing to take off the hero’s plot armor, at least for a little bit. A few scars build character.

The final climactic battle was even worse in regards to the strength of the Stu. You spent the story touting the Stu up as a huge threat, but in the end he falls to a few well-placed spells/biotic abilities. The agents even have time to interrupt each other during the reading of the charge list in that typically amusing PPC fashion. They should know that the petrifying charm has a time limit, and that when it wears off the Stu will try to kill them, and yet they proceed as normal.

That falls in line with what I saw as a problem with pacing. Any dramatic tension that might be produced by the torture scene or by the Stu or by the C-Sec agent (I'll mention him again later) is undone by the story just plodding along like any other mission. This isn't a typical mission plotline, but you write it like one. What should be gripping becomes boring.

I also never saw this Stu as being more intelligent than any other garden variety example of his ilk, despite what you said in your first post. More powerful, sure. But an intelligent Stu or Sue would know how to torture someone properly (i.e., until they get the information they want) instead of just until the victim passes out. An intelligent Stu/Sue wouldn’t just throw attack after attack at a shield; he/she would try to find some way around it. [PERSONAL OPINIONS/HEAD CANON]A really intelligent Stu/Sue might even know what the PPC is. To have an ‘intelligent’ Stu or Sue who doesn’t know what the PPC is, considering that our own canon includes such things as Mary Sue Factories and the like, doesn’t quite sit well with me. Plus, having an enemy that knows what you are and what you can do makes that enemy a little more threatening, at least in my mind.[END OF PERSONAL OPINIONS/HEAD CANON]

While the romantic subplot with Xanthus and Annie was nice, it felt a bit shoehorned into this mission. Had it been contained within its own interlude, then both it and this mission would have likely been improved. That being said, the sub-subplot with the C-Sec investigator Gaston was wrapped up in a clumsy manner, what with him basically vanishing as soon as Annie shooed him away from the door. He was more plot device than character and it shows.

This mission is a mess. It has its areas of polish, to be sure – your characterization of Thane was fantastic – but those moments were buried under poor pacing and an underwhelming threat.

Chiming in to agree with what Joe said; your missions are way too long. Most people here do not have the time to read them, and that includes me. The entry level for reading your stuff is way too high.

Beyond that, I have to admit, you have another issue that makes me reluctant to read your stuff at all. In the chat, you tend to express an attitude that implies the onus is on everyone else to read your stuff, and comment, and you've been annoyed in there on several occasions because people don't.

When people tried to point out how long your stuff was, you brushed it off, and instead of taking it as constructive criticism, you chose to say you didn't understand how everyone else's were so short, and that your missions needed to be as long as they were.

That's not an attitude that encourages me or others to read your stuff. Entitlement is not the name of the game; we complain about it in writers regardless of whether they write fic or original works, so it's not fair to expect that sort of treatment of ourselves here, eiher.

Beyond that, there is a reason that missions are short; the attention span of the average reader and the fact that as a writer you can only take so much of a badfic aside. It also partially has to do with the goal of missions, as a story format in general.

Missions themselves are formulaic for a reason. They're part analysis, part wish fulfillment (Oh no! I used that dreaded phrase!).

You can't have it really be proper analysis when it's completely full up with plot. Making a mission have a heavy focus on a plot involving the agents results in the analysis either being lost, or the mission stretching out and becoming even longer than it ought be. When there's too much character progression in an individual mission, it removes the wish fulfillment portion. While agents might have their own backgrounds, personalities, and opinions, when character development and the analysis and wish fulfillment involved in a mission go at cross ends, the main purpose they serve in a mission- being our fill-ins, our window, our mouthpieces- fails.

Most people aren't skilled at balancing the two ends evenly in a mission or try to force it into the formula that we usually use. This results in stuff being glossed over or hastily shoved in, and a mission that's ultimately subpar. The average PPC mission is 'set up tone and feel, go into mission, complain about how horrible the badfic elements are, try to kill or otherwise do something about it, and head back'. There is not a lot of room for variety in that formula. If you want it to be plot based, or characterization based, you need to be willing to break away from it. Most people do not. Most people have not. If you want to have more focus on plot and characterization, then break away from that basic formula.

This whole problem, of course, is eliminated with nonmission pieces. It's why I do so many interludes, why VM writes cafeteria stories, why Dann writes DoSAT. The point with interludes isn't badfic or examining it, the point of those is character progression, and plot if you feel the need. Cafeteria stories and DoSAT and any of the departments that are not field based are the same. They are character and plot driven instead.

Huinesoron's Crashing Down and Reorganisation are both excellent- and long- novel length works. They both feel like very short reads, however, because they're legitimate stories, with a beginning, middle, and end, with character progression and plot. There's also the implicit knowledge that what you are reading will be resolved, and will have some sort of 'end'.

Wih novellas and novels, as readers, we have been trained to know that things will happen, and will resolve in some manner. Length- in terms of how a story works- is of little issue here, because plots expand and close, characters develop. It has to be the right size, but that can mean anywhere from ten pages to a thousand.

That does not work with missions. They are not stories in and of themselves. The spinoff is. You have arcs, and portions that can be definitely attributed as having beginnings and ends, but that isn't the same with an individual mssion.

If you read two random missions in the same spinoff, for the most part, you are going to not be able to tell what the order is unless they explicitly reference the others. Any character development? You aren't going to be able to tell. Missions do not have that focus.

The Sue is killed, the bad slash is fixed, the locations are untangled or set fire to, and then the agents head back to unwind just enough to be able to relax to the point where the mission sound off happens at the exact worst possible time. There's no real plot there. Characters are going to remain the same, for the most part.

Missions are, at best, scenes and chapters within a spinoff. They should not have to carry a full story on their own, because they are not a full story.

... I loved every bit of it! While the mission itself was very long, I actually didn't mind it at all: the degree of immersion that was achieved can't really be replicated in shorter missions. I like the idea of having a plot within a mission: it's a refreshing change from agents go in, snark, rage, charge, assassinate. It allows for character development and more interactions with the canon world.

Hats off to you, sir.

PS: There's a typo in your disclaimers, bolded by me for visibility: "The PPC was uoriginally"

while I do think the mission was long, it did give full feeling of why the stu was so bad some missions just skim to the extent that I have to read the fic in order to follow why half the charges are there. I enjoyed it all in all but you may need to try putting your plot lines in intermissions or stretching them over two missions. I also have bad news http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7211420/1/Subject_23_Cryonics

Ladies and gentlemen the sequel.

One hundred and eight pages?

That is too much mission. This is a chronic problem of yours, Wozz, and as much as I love your writing I feel like it's time for some tough love. I'm not going to read this thing--it is way too long for whatever it could involve.

You need to cut WAY back. I'm willing to help with that. I've worked with you at least once, I'm totally willing to do so again, but not unless the thirteen-page missions you're promising become your average instead of your extra-short outliers.

However, the story, along with the romance subplot, dragged on a little longer than I thought. 108 pages? I understand your reasons, but toning it down a bit would help us a lot.

The good fic - she is funny and awesome! Discworld and MIB forever!

As for the bad fic...(Incoming total dorkage/rant, be warned) The Aircel (later Malibu) comic series that the film/cartoon was based on DID have vampires, werewolves, mummies, and invisible people.

The point of the MIB, at least in THAT series, wasn't just to isolate and contain aliens, it was to exploit the mysterious and spooky for their own ends, which they did until the mini-series ended.

Now maybe, JUST maybe, the author knew about the comic and wanted to make an Original universe fic. Fair enough...

but the PROBLEM is that most of the vampires in that comic were homicidal maniacs...NOT EDWARD BLOODY (pun intended) CULLEN! And Bella? She wouldn't just be neuralyzed for her actions. She'd be finished. Finito. Ended. In a word, DEAD. (Dorkage over.)

What makes this worse is that it's set in MOVIE MIB. Vampires AREN'T their dept. (rant over.)

Fic, y u incite nerdism?

Seriously?! Men in Black meets sparkling disco balls that passes off as vampires and girls with no common knowledge about love, vampires, and common sense? Big NO!

And to make this badfic worse, it's being supported by foolish people who make stupid reviews about it. The fic's bad enough that it might as well ruin my Grey Matter. Elimine forsaken Twilight fantards should have at least done some research about MIB to make it a goodfic... wait, they wouldn't do that since they're FANTARDS who's mind runs on hormone-induced glee and too busy glorifying the Twilight fandom by crossing it with a world where a secret xenos embassy is protecting the world from the space alien monsters and galactic criminals.

Damnation, why do many Twilight fanfic writers do this? Disrespecting the other fandoms they have little to no knowledge about it by including them in their crossovers, mucking it up, and breaking every rules and bending it to their own joy of seeing and reading Bella and Edward sogging each other and confessing their "twu wub" to each other while an intergalactic crisis is spiraling out of control. *gasping for breath*

I'll be more than happy to see this fic sporked.

Of the two images that brings to my mind, one is rather odd and the other has entirely to do with the bear of a man I used to live with and is NSFW

I happen to know quite a lot about Twilight (former fan...) so that actually sounds kinda funny. Also, I am curious as to how the MIB could hide Twipires... Anyway, I also know the canon of the MIB movies, and a bit of the cartoon series, but I am not sure if it is enough.

So... anyone interested in a possible co-write? (Yes, even you Nesh :P)

Name: Riley Coyote
Age: 32
Species: Cartoon Coyote
Home Continuum: Looney Tunes
Department: Floaters
Partner: Rhodes Runner
Fandoms: Pirates of the Caribbean, Super Mario Bros., Looney Tunes, Harry Potter, Sherlock Holmes, The Chronicles of Narnia, etc.
Lust-Objects: No official ones, but he tends to act oddly around Anamaria from POTC.
Favorites: Wile E. Coyote (again, natch), Bowser, Jack Sparrow, formulating plans, things that go boom, etc.
Weapons: Explosives, traps, a cartoonish six-shooter (brand unidentifiable, but appears to be a .44)

Riley Coyote is a replacement of Wile E. Coyote from the same Looney Tunes AU as Rhodes Runner. His status as a character replacement first came under suspicion when he had failed to use a sign to communicate even once whenever he actually had some lines to say. It was confirmed by his disregarding Rhodes Runner when, and instead focusing his attentions on the "star" of the story, a Replacement!Sue impersonating Lola Bunny. His character was sufficiently complex enough to warrant rescuing, and he assisted the Agents, along with Rhodes, in killing the Sue and finding the real cartoon stars.
He is a bit more cynical than his partner Rhodes, but is overall a decent guy. He does retain the "mad scientist" traits of his canon counterpart, and is an ardent believer in the notion of applying explosives to any sort of problem, no matter how trivial. He gets slightly annoyed when he's in a continuum without explosions of some variety, and seriously annoyed when he's in a fic featuring any sort of uncanonical Bad Science (Biology, Physics, etc.). He also appreciates a person's ingenuity, tenacity and perseverance, so he gets REALLY irritated if a character disregards his dreams or goals because of a Sue's presence. Sometimes, he gets aggravated by Rhodes's antics, but usually he just takes it in stride (though not without being snarky about it).

Okay, that actually sounds pretty cool.

As for how much it should be toned down, my usual rule of thumb is that while in their home continuum and in HQ, an agent is able to behave normally, as per the rules of that continuum. However while in another 'verse with different rules, the agents are bound to follow those rules, at least as much as possible. So if Rhodes and Riley are visiting, say, Narnia, they won't be indestructible or be able to pull giant rockets out of nowhere. However, if they were visiting Tom and Jerry or Scooby Doo, or whatever, they'd have a lot more leeway with what they could do.

Of course, other people might have better suggestions for how to handle it.

I hope by lots you mean more than one but less than three...

No such luck, probably.

But... but... but REALLY?!

Sigh.

Why am I even surprised anymore?

Sounds like the same old nonsense to me. Nonsensical and full of nonsense, like something lacking in sense.

How would Hobbit/Dragon even work, anyway?

Mini-Kali (the statue from Temple of Doom)
Mini-Thuggees (the cult from the same)
Mini-Crystal Skulls
Mini-interdimensional beings ( I think that's their name? It's what the LEGO game called them.)

First, please allow me to remind everyone that the first person to actually write an OFU or, if an OFU is lacking, a mission in the continuum gets to name the mini. It's one of the perks of branching out.

That said, I think there are two pretty obvious choices. The first one, Indie's main antagonists, is Nazis. Of course, there are some potential issues with mini-Nazis running around, especially with names resembling the good guys', so my other choice would be Indie's biggest fear: snakes—either not-so-mini regular snakes, or mini-whatever that giant water snake was from The Last Crusade.

~Neshomeh + $0.02

Just a thought. I mean, that hat of his is pretty iconic.

Hey, guys! I found a few goodfics as well. They're all in the Pit, but I assure you it's goodfic. The Pit is weird. There's a lot of dirt, rocks, and general crap, but sometimes you find some gold or a diamond. But you have to wade through a lot of crap to get to such valuables. Here's the gems I've found in the Redwall section:

Killy-s in general, is, in fact great. But it'sOf Fur and Flame, in which "At the Mountain fortress of Salamandastron mother-to-be Peony Linwood anxiously awaits word from her husband Long Patrol Captain Tutsan Linwood. Meanwhile out in the woodlands an ambitious young fox longs to become a great warlord feared by all." that I'm recommending.

Killy sometimes makes spelling/grammar mistakes, but they're usually quite minor, and she's very accepting of concrit.

And then there's Highwing, who wrote The Urthblood Saga, which is actually still in progress, and currently has two novles ("The Crimson Badger", the first book of which is linked above, and "The Shrew War", the second novel) and a total of 11 "books" into which the novels are divided, as well as an origin story for his author surrogate, Highwing the sparrow, a few short stories, and a few outtakes from the first draft.

The summary for Book I on TCB is: "The Badger Lord Urthblood arrives at Redwall bearing a dire prophecy, and soon the Abbey is preparing for a war like no other."

I personally have read all of what's there. It's simply the best fanfic I've ever read. I warn you, though, it's a little darker than the original "Redwall" series, and there's some pretty nasty stuff that goes on and a lot of controversy, and the TSW gets loads of gruesome deaths.

And last but not least isSamadhir, who wrote two fics of The Urthblood Saga (yeah, fanfics of fanfics), both of which are fairly good. They're called "Wolfrum, an Urthblood Saga Fanfic", and "Waiting For the Worms, an Urthblood Saga Fanfic". The summaries are, respectively: "As the army of Urthblood prepares for their journey to Redwall Abbey, Mykola the Sword fox gets the responsibility of looking after Wolfrum, one of the "problem soldiers" under the badger's command. Based on "The Crimson Badger" by Highwing."

And: "Taking place shortly after the end of Highwing's "The Shrew War", this story follows two beasts, a shrew sergeant and a woodland rat, through an eventful day in the aftermath of a very important decision made by Urthblood."

I hope you find them good. Here's my recommendations from, of all places, Team Fortress 2:

Morbid Curiosity, in which "The medic dwells on his isolated past and fascination with medicine he held since childhood, and how they influenced the man he is today."

Purification, in which the Pyro reflects on his/her/its past, and why he/she/it is the way he/she/it is. Warning: reference to rape.

Medic's Acid Trip, in which... Well, I think you can figure it out.

And, finally, here's a nonsense (but still hilarious) crackfic from Harry Potter (fair warning, there's some bad language): Napalm I think you know what happens, guys.

Feel free to set up your own rec lists!

This may have been mentioned on here before...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/TheManWithNoName

A Doctor Who/Firefly crossover set after Serenity and before S4 of DW. Highly recommended if you're a fan of both series! ^_^

Most stories on EQD have to go through proofreaders. so that's a good place to start. But at the moment, I'd recommend

Luminosity by Alicorn (I absolutely despise Twilight, but loved it),
Infinity and Ready, Sette, Go by Moczo,
Echoes of the Past by DezoPenguin
The Snob From Canterlot http://www.fimfiction.net/story/4806/The-Snob-from-Canterlot

And...probably more stories that don't come to mind right now.

Title: The Life and Times of Caughlin Mare
Fandom: My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Link: Here
Info: There are no books on Discordian history, because only four ponies have survived from then until now to tell the tale, and two of them are in hiding from the other two... Origins, pre-diarchy. P.S.: Everything you know is a lie.

Title: Growing Up Kneazle
Fandom: Harry Potter
Link: Here.

Info: On the cusp of Harry's third birthday an impressive display of accidental magic will change his life forever. When Harry is rediscovered nearly nine years later, what will become of our intrepid hero when he finally attends Hogwarts?

Title: The CAT 'Verse
Fandom: Batman/DC AU
Link: Here.
Info: A massive Batman fanfiction effort centering on the villains of Gotham City-- the Scarecrow and his three unwelcome hangers on, specifically --written by Twinings (formerly Bright Nova) and BiteMeTechie.

I highly recommend this 'Verse to anyone who likes the DCU and just really well written fic in general.

http://whydoyouneedtoknow.fanficauthors.net/Harry_Potter/#Dangerverse_Main

Dangerverse is an extreme AU Harry Potter fanfic. The fic's quite weird to begin with since it was supposed to have few chapters but then the author changed her mind. She made four main AU Harry Potter fanfic books, eight Dangerverse crossovers, and 21 oneshots about Dangerverse. The entire series have at least 1.6 million words and still counting since she is also making her fifth book.

You'll hate the first few chapters since there are some blatant Mary Sueish elements but they'll be gone as you continue to read the series and yes, the author is a big fan of the Grangers family. Anyway, have fun reading the entire series.

I'll repeat my rec of the MIBxDiscworld crossover I mentioned down-Board:

"Watchmen in Black" by Beth Einspanier
The result of an idle mind, too much caffeine, and an overall feeling of "What would happen if..." Agents J and L of the MiB hunt a shapeshifting alien in Ankh-Morpork, and enlist the help of the Watch. Naturally, things don't go smoothly. Revised!
Crossover - Men In Black & Discworld - Rated: T - English - Adventure/Sci-Fi - Chapters: 11 - Words: 16,660 - Reviews: 31 - Updated: 11-18-09 - Published: 2-3-02 - Complete

It's got a few flaws—the characterization's a little off, and some of the jokes run on a bit too long—but aside from that it's still pretty entertaining. Lots of the jokes made me laugh aloud, and the overall concept is solid. I'm glad I read it. Please forgive the lack of scene breaks, since ff.net has arbitrarily removed them in the past and it's not too hard to keep track in spite of not having them.

~Neshomeh

Last night I found a Goodfic while I was looking for Badfic. How is that crazy? Well it's a Batman x Dr.Horrible's Sing Along Blog x Dr.McNinja.

AND IT'S GOOD. Or at least I liked it. As far as I can tell, everyone's in character and the author really knows their continuity. They even site references to past events! It's a fun read, and I hope everyone enjoys reading it as much as I did.

Fic:http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4533220/1/Medical_Help

Have some Bleepka.

Well met, rookie! Please enjoy this fine selection of Throwing Bricks as a welcoming gift.

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay!

Welcome to the Board! Have a pair of pared pears as a welcome gift! What you'd do with them, I'm not sure, though. XD

Hi, have some fudge!

Sweet! :D

I haven't actually started hunting for Hunger Games badfic yet (mostly because I have yet to start reading "Mockingjay"), but I'd really like to spork a Hunger Games badfic in the future, so...

So welcome!

Here, have some Mahler for the road: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Px44IuVKM&feature=related

Greetings, new friend! Have an Internet Explorer pith helmet!

As a reward for joining PPC, you can have a lifetime supply of Bleeprin and chocolate bonbons. Anyway, have fun in your stay here in the PPC.

Nice to see another new face around! Have some home-made Bleepolate truffles.

Eugh, sorry about not being logged in, but I'm doing this from a phone and it won't allow me to stay properly logged in to post.

Welcome to the Board, good sir/ma'am. Have some of my patented hydrophobic water! Fun to watch but not to eat.

This whole, "No, you cannot write PPC, we don't know you" thing happens quite often (or happened quite often, it may have changed) to people.

But if you try try try again, I'm not kidding, you'll probably succeed. Most people do.

The seniors here won't give any permission to newcomers.

Please read this. We don't give permission to people who we do not know, and certainly not people whose time since they joined is still in the 'hours' range of counting.

Read more missions.

Seriously, we have no idea who you are, really. So please, take your time and get to be known first and be personable and all that. After that, then we can start to talk about permission.

Aren't we just supposed to pretend we don't notice that it's religious and just decide based on how much of the usual bad stuff there is?

By bad stuff I mean character replacement, Mary Sues/Gary Stus, lack of SPaG, lack of accuracy in regards to canon reality, urple-ness, etc.

Admittedly this does kind of make me want to say some rather vicious things, especially since the ahem writer decided to put that quote at the end, but none of it is undebatable, so if I was sparking it I'd attempt to stay "professional".

Of course, most agents are not "professional", if part of "professional" means "behaving in an emotionally detached manner".

Various Sues have received a blasphemy charge. It's been leveled at people who mangled various religious texts so badly that even the atheists cringed; or who created character replacements of deities (omnipotent deities cannot be out of character; they are immune) by turning the deity into a joke; or who displayed bigotry against various religions in various ways.

Religion is a difficult issue; and, in general, the PPC doesn't deal with it much because of how many different opinions people have and how you have to respect their viewpoints.

That said, though, we do deal with a lot of serious stuff that goes into fanfic; for example, agents have entered fics that contained homophobia, sexism, anti-disability prejudice, trivialization of rape, torture, and other forms of abuse and assault, and prejudice against races or cultures. Those things have been addressed with the same sort of high-quality writing I see when the issues are only grammar errors, anatomically impossible slash, or tru wuv with the resident cute guy.

Where would I draw the line? Well, there's a difference between an author writing from a viewpoint you don't agree with, and an author who's using that viewpoint to hurt others, or as a part of bad writing in general.

It's very much like the "your kink is not my kink" maxim for slash and erotica in general. Sure, you might get squicked by one act or another; but that's preference, and preference hasn't got anything to do with bad writing. On the other hand, if the author is doing a rape-equals-love story or turning a decent canon guy into a misogynist or just messing up the sex so badly that you're sure the act in question would be impossible even with three arms and two sets of reproductive organs... then that's spork-worthy.

Here's my suggestion for fics containing religion: If it's just an author with a viewpoint that you don't agree with, don't touch the fic. But if they are writing in a way that is obviously meant to be offensive, or shows obvious bigotry against a religious group, or makes so many mistakes that it's evident that they didn't do the research--then spork it, and show no mercy.

You know how people recommend that if you don't like slash, then you probably shouldn't be sporking it, because you have to know what good slash is to recognize bad slash? This is kind of like that, too. If there are religious issues in a fic, you should know about the religion in question; and, if you can find someone who holds that belief system, co-write with them or ask them to beta so you know you have your facts straight. While a comparative religions class can give you enough to recognize when a writer has neglected to do even basic research, all the little ins and outs and minority beliefs are generally only well-known within that religion.

I don't think we should stay away from religion just on principle, any more than we stay away from rape or child abuse or any other really heavy subject--but I do think it needs research and a good knowledge of what is bad writing or poor research, and what is merely a different belief system.

I'd say my biggest issue with it is the Bible quotation at the end. To me, that actually gets very pretentious if you do stuff like that, so yeah.

Actually, on the topic of badfic, and on the topic of Biblical quotations... I recently stumbled across a series of badfic that could qualify as Legendary Badfic, if not Bleepfic.

The fact that this series has a TVTropes page should tell you everything you need to know.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the bible-thumping murder-fest only known as "The Prayer Warriors":

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/ThePrayerWarriors

It's a series of five badfics in different continua (Two in Percy Jackson and the Olympians, one in Harry Potter, one in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, and one that's both Percy Jackson and World War One. Yes, this series goes there.). Basically, this group of extremely overpowered Sues goes in, kills characters who don't believe in God, equates everyone who doesn't worship God with a devil worshipper, and writes his author's notes so that Jesus Christ himself is applauding the author.

I could barely get four chapters into the first Percy Jackson fic before I found myself wishing I had never read this fic.

Heya! So you're Kippur. I've heard about you.

I actually like IC. Even if I never could get into it like I do with Redwall, Harry Potter, Death Note, and so forth, I still like it. I know, I know, stolen plot, major Gary Stus/Mary Sues, etcetera, and most PPCers don't approve in any way. I just have a few things to say.

On the subject of Sues/Stus- yes, yes they are. Arya, no doubt about it. Nasuada, kninda. Murtagh and Eragon aren't so bad- Murtagh is a bit more gray than good or bad, and Eragon would be a total Stu if he wasn't Too Dumb to Live. Roran is demi-Stu. He's super-strong, but there's a logical explanation of all that time spent doing farm work and, after that, helping in Horst's forge. It's not an excsue to kill around three hundred soldiers in one go, but still. Also, he's only slightly less thick than Eragon, still TDTL. Saphira, I'm not sure about. Yes, she's infintely wise, incredibly powerful, and rather emotional, but she's also so vain and proud it makes Draco Malfoy look humble. And then there's one other character we need to bring up on that charge: Angela. She's uber-powerful, probably old beyond measure, her mind is razor-sharp, and she spends a lot of her time being unbelievably badass. But she's also amoral, bats**t crazy, and isn't exactly charismatic.

On the stolen plot: I agree completely. It follows the same basic line. Poor farmboy becomes part of a long-forgotten order of badass people of various races, goes on a journey with an old dude who teaches him stuff, gains special powers, a special weapon (he even participates in the forging of Brisingr, much as Luke made his own lightsaber), and many strong allies, and eventually brings down the big bad Empire. I don't know if Paolini did that intentionally, but it seems like it. It was almost a matter of just replacing names and terms.

Urlple Prose, I didn't actually spot much of. Certainly it was there, especially when they talked about Arya, Saphira, or many Elven or Dwarvish cities. And it was horrible. But the books aren't truly riddled with it.

And yes, the Ancient Language, Dwarvish, and Urgal are cat-on-keyboard. Although that does make them unbelievably fun to try and pronounce!

The Cycle does have some small merit, basically. The books are fairly large, and an entertaining read when you can't sleep or have a long car ride (provided you're a passenger, of course!).

I know the lot of you are virulent Paolini haters, but I thought the second part was fun to read.

The first part, now, that was a bunch of pointless Iliad-style, "And then I swung overhand and crushed his shoulder and then he tried to stab me but it didn't work because a random dwarf came up and axed his head off which was good but then the dwarf got hit by an arrow" sort of thing.

*goes off to read pluggage*

Ohdearlord Paolini.

Good luck... you'll need it.

I can't seem to find the previous books on there... I shall continue looking. The Internet confuses my head, though.

To see how awful it is.

Yay! I've been waiting for this for a while now! Thank you for reading this!

Hopefully you can stay sane while you read the book!

I just finished reading it. I think part of my brain was actually consumed by plot holes and bad science. Oh, and the constant urple.

Good luck on the critiquing. I'll be reading with interest.

I too am reading the book, and I'd just like to say that there is a nuclear physics uberfail in there somewhere. I was tearing my hair out for days afterwards.

My thinking is that each deity is an entity unto itself, unless there is good reason to believe otherwise. These deities may have the ability to do anything within their continuum, but are not outside of it.

I'm put in mind of the Chronicles of Amber in which there is one 'real world' of which the others are all shadows that have been distorted to varying degrees. So perhaps the gods are shadows of the Ultimate God, as filtered through the lens of the Author of each universe.

A while back, before deciding that I'm not cut out to write PPC missions, I thought about creating an agent with Deity given Healing Powers and that he would have access to them only in continuums where there was a deity willing to grant them to him.

I actually apply the backstory of the Kingdom Hearts cosmology to the fictional multiverse. It essentially says that there was originally only one World, which was only light, no darkness. People started to get greedy, and wanted to hoard as much light to themselves as possible. This cast a shadow in those people's hearts, and the light started to break apart. After the light seemed completely torn up, some of it still survived in the hearts of children. From that light, Kingdom Hearts, or God, or whatever, recreated fragments of the original World, but separate from each other. The assumption in KH is that someday, all the disparate worlds will come together again recreate the greater World, but only after darkness has disappeared from every heart, and all the people of the multiverse can live together peacefully in the light.

I take Kingdom Hearts to be a metaphor for God. So here, we have God splitting existence into many worlds, each one slightly different due to each being a different part of the original World. Hence, they all "see" God, or Kingdom Hearts, as being a little different. Narnia is filled with talking animals, so for them, He is a great speaking lion. The Stephen King universe is full of strange creatures and occurrences, and there, He is a giant intergalactic turtle spirit. The Pokémon world is filled with Pokémon, and its residents see Him as—well, a Pokémon.

So this was a long way of saying, "I believe they are all the same being." (Still not sure I actually swallow Arceus being God, though. It should not be possible for God to be captured in a Pokéball and forced to fight for a ten-year-old.)

"Omnipotent" would mean omnipotent throughout the entire multiverse; and unless all omnipotent people were in exact agreement at all times (which would make them functionally one being), there would be disagreements with one person trying to do one thing, and another doing another; and how do you pit one omnipotent deity against another? They both, by definition, can do anything.

So, yeah, they would have to be all the same, because the multiverse is connected; or else they could not be omnipotent. They could be able to influence everything within their own continuum, but that wouldn't be "omnipotent", only very powerful.

Thankfully, there are very few of them, and they are all alternate-universe representations of the God of the Bible, from either the Christian, Jewish, or occasionally Muslim viewpoint; so their authors likely thought they were the same thing too.

So, yeah, they're all the same thing. Otherwise you run into logical contradictions. As for different writers giving their versions of God different personalities, different opinions, etc.: Two possibilities. Either the Authors are seeing the same person from many perspectives, so there aren't any contradictions; or else the logical contradictions exist, God is different in different continua, and it's better not to think too hard about it, much the way one shouldn't think too hard about the mechanism by which Bleeprin erases badfic headaches. The PPC runs on plot holes--this would be just one more to add to the collection.

I'm personally a fan of (though not an adherent to) the theology in Young Wizards, so there's the One, who made everything, and then there are the Powers That Be, who helped (or didn't, in the case of the Lone Power) and actually run around doing things and interacting with people when necessary. The Powers That Be are finite in number, but they exist outside of time and have infinite capacity to create avatars of themselves in the world(s). Thus, from just one of the PTBs we have the One's Champion, Michael the Archangel, Prometheus, Athena, Lugh, etc. And a pet parrot, which just goes to show that an avatar can be whatever the PTB needs it to be, not necessarily a god-like being. Each avatar is separate and autonomous, even though they're all technically the same being.

I figure, this easily extends to other continua. The One is the One, but any potent personalities that actually get involved in-universe (Aslan, the Valar, etc.) could be avatars of the various PTBs. So, yes, some of them are the same being—but then again, some aren't, and either way it doesn't matter, because they aren't just puppets, they are unique fully-functional incarnations imbued with some of the Power in question's essence.

That being the case, you bet they know about the PPC, but it's pretty much Multiversal that the local deities/PTBs usually don't get involved with the affairs of mortals unless it's absolutely vital. So there you go. {= )

~Neshomeh

I've always assumed that any deities/supernatural entities are 'contained' as it were to one continua unless canon suggests otherwise.

At any rate that would make more sense from a writing point of view, otherwise we could get into a big mess very quickly. :P

I like to think that every 'verse is separate from the others: there is no link between them aside from the portal network used by HQ. Therefore, the three Goddesses from Zelda aren't related to the Discworld Gods, who aren't related to Aslan, and so on so forth. A universe apiece, as you put it.

It's pretty explicitly stated in Narnia that Aslan is our God too, so in at least one case, yes. Beyond Him, though, I don't know. I certainly wouldn't bet against Eru knowing about the PPC, but I would bet against him intervening in PPC affairs on anything short of the most dire of circumstances - and even then, he seems to be a fan of the indirect (and often Wizardly) approach.

(To be precise, Aslan and the Emperor over the Sea mirror the God the Son / God the Father parts of the Trinity, and it's far too late for me to dive into trinitarian doctrine at the moment. Suffice to say, they're both God, omnipotent, omniscient, distinct, etc. And God is singular in that last sentence.)

...but I'd like to say that a spin-off with an Agent searching for his/her/xir home continuum is something that I'd definitely want to read! ^_^

Considering agents can be from anywhere in the multiverse, from any text and non-text medium, I wouldn't say having a home is very important. And even when an agent does have a 'home' it can be sort of arbitrary. An agent that hails from Middle Earth may be very different from one lifted out of a badfic set in middle earth. An agent from a Middle-Earth-set romance fic may even be very different from an agent that hails from a Middle-Earth-set action/adventure fic.

Agents can be from unpublished works, original fiction... ANYTHING could be out there, so anything goes, really. As long as it's enjoyable and well-balanced.

("Use Transform, Ditto!")

But on the second item, asking questions is not pestering. That said, a lot of stuff can be found on the wiki and throughout

While asking questions might help you understand the PPC, it doesn't really get you involved in the community itself. Comment on missions and stories! Get into a (friendly) debate with someone! There are plenty of places and ways for you to show your viewpoint; we don't really see that with you only asking questions.

There are plenty of interesting topics on the board right now. Huinesoron's thread on deities and how they work across various continua if they're the same- and whether they might even be the same at all despite sharing similar roles to ones we are familiar with in the real world- is just barely getting started, and then there's the goodfic thread with a link to the PPC Rec Center and the fics that people find good in that particular thread already!

I don't see it as being that important to have a home continuum. What is important is that there is a consistent set of rules that govern your character. Who knows, maybe the search for their home continuum could be a major plot line for that character.

I'd love to see the next one of these! Hopefully I don't forget.

1. "The dummy" works, or "the Sue," or "it," or whatever other pronouns apply, or whatever else you can think of to distinguish it from the other characters. Kinda like anything else.
   
   2. They are mini-Reapers. (What those are and why not Daleks I have no idea, but there it is.)
   
   About the wiki, I'm curious about what you find confusing. I'll be the first to admit the organization could be improved in places, but specifics would be useful.
   
   That said, though, there is a search bar, and putting in "Mini" gets you a page that lists all the ones we've defined in alphabetical order by continuum, so... yeah.
   
   3. I... don't actually know. I know you get a mini by misspelling the author's name, though those minis aren't adoptable, so I guess that could apply to actors as well. I don't know if it's come up before, though.
   
   ~Neshomeh

4 kids try to play a game and then everyone starts dying.


ben-to was amazing, it was over the top in all the right ways

My ultimate favorite:
Codex Alera by Jim Butcher
Lost Roman Legion with Pokémon.

Smallville
Clark Kent has a really angsty “no flights, no tights” adolescence before he gets off his attractive butt to put on the cape.

Others of awesome:

- Kingdom Hearts video game series
The decade-long Love Affair between Disney and Square Enix—makers of Final Fantasy.

- The Laundry series by Charles Stross
A brilliant mix of technomagic, the British civil (and secret-er than secret) service, and summoning Lovecraftian horrors.

- Babylon 5, J. Michael Straczynski
A sci-fi series with intricate politics and a fascinating perspective on the destiny of the galaxy.

- Sandman by Neil Gaiman
"The Lord of Dreams must change or die, and makes his decision." – Neil Gaiman

- Discworld series by Terry Pratchett
Satirical fantasy novels set on a disc-shaped world supported by four elephants riding on the back of the Great Turtle A'Tuin as he moves through space.

- Batman: Arkham Asylum and Batman: Arkham City
The Dark Knight is stuck in an insane asylum with all his enemies.

- A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin
Realize life will always get worse, so drink every time someone says “Winter is coming.”

Tales of Symphonia (Gamecube game)
The game starts off as your average "save the world" plot, but eventually evolves into something bigger, leaving the fate of everything in the hands of your requisite bunch of outcasts and misfits. It also goes out of it's way to deconstruct a few video game tropes as it goes along.

Axis Powers Hetalia (Anime)
A look at World War II and other historical events through the eyes of anthromorphic countries. It... might not be everyone's cup of tea, though...

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (Cartoon)
Yes, I KNOW, but this is only meant to be a recommendation, I'm not forcing you to watch it. Anyway, it's the adventures of six ponies in the land of Equestria, using their skills and the "Elements of Harmony" to save the day. That's pretty much it.

That's it for starters, what do you think? (Though I also recommend these to other people as well...)

Girl Genius (webcomic)
"As mad scientists fight over a balkanized Europe, a young woman learns she not only has the mad-science 'Spark', but is the child of one of Europe's greatest heroes."

(The "official" synopsis is better, but it's two sentences. This isn't a fandom that gives us much business, but it's nice to have something the Suethors leave alone.)

Shadowrun
- In the year 2072 corporations rule, using governments as their puppets, magic has returned to the world, bringing with it a whole host of fantastic creatures, and natural disasters coupled with vicious take-overs mean that maps have had to be entirely redrawn.

Good Omens (Book, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman)
-The Antichrist is born. The Four Horsemen ride the earth. Prophecies are filled. Angels and Demons work together. Apocalypse to ensue.

Gentleman Bastards Sequence (Book series, Scott Lynch)
-A band of thieves who are richer and cleverer than everyone else suddenly finds themselves in the midst of a war.

Hot Fuzz (Movie, Blood and Ice Cream trilogy)
-A London cop suddenly finds himself a bit away from where he normally would like to be. Shenanigans, cake, and violence follow.

The Dark Tower (fanta-sci-horror series by Stephen King)
"Ambiguously-good!John Wayne fights robots and monsters while the world ends around him."

Final Fantasy XII (Square-Enix video game)
"The writing is actually good, and the sphere grid is no longer broken."

Lost (television series)
"You'll come for the mysterious and adventurous setting, and stay because you'll come to know the characters better than your own mother."

I'm a hardcore gamer, so I have a few...

Starcraft series Real time strategy game
Fight as either the Terrans, the Protoss or the Zerg in a three way battle royale for survival.

Half-Life series First person shooter (18+ for blood and gore)
You are Gordon Freeman, PhD in theoretical physics, and you unleash an alien invasion of Earth during a scientific experiment. Run. Think. Shoot. Bludgeon stuff with crowbar. Live.

The Legend of Zelda series Adventure
Wield a legendary Blade of Evil's Bane and free the land of Hyrule from the darkness that shrouds it.

Metroid series Adventure
Join Samus Aran on her quest to free the galaxy from Space Pirates and Metroids.

I'm gonna try my hand at this.

Mass Effect- Video Game
Humanity is found by a bunch of species, they rise to prominence, and one of them attempts to fight against a threat that will destroy all organic life.

The Hunger Games- Book
A young girl growing up in a lower-class part of a dystopian society becomes picked to participate in a massive fight to the death against twenty-three others her age.

District 9- Movie
An alien ship appears over Johannesburg, and an apartheid allegory ensues.

Saw- Movie
Two guys wake up chained to the walls of a filthy bathroom, and they find themselves embroiled in a sick game with horrible consequences if they don't play by the rules.

Warehouse 13
Two government agents get roped into collecting mystical artifacts for a secret warehouse in South Dakota.

Silent Hill - Video game series, film (technically an AU)
Survival horror in which the titular town manifests the nightmarish horrors of various people including a tortured young girl, a man with latent guilt and the psychotic delusions of a cult.

Neon Genesis Evangelion - 26-ep anime, anime film series (2 of 4 released currently)
Teenage pilots battle Things That Should Not Be in near-future Japan while coming to terms (or not) with their own psychological issues.

SCP Foundation - Collaborative writing website
Shady non-governmental agency contains crazy, terrifying and just plain weird things that it's best the public do not know about. Not a 'fandom' in the typical sense, but worth a read.

Uzumaki - Manga
Small Japanese town is afflicted by various... odd things surrounding spirals. Body Horror and cosmic horror abound.

Hmm... noticing a theme here? XD

Doctor Who, BBC Live-Action TV Show.
"There's a box, which is bigger on the inside, and there's time-wimey stuff and living statues and dinosaur thingies and bow-ties and fezzes involved, any questions?"

Black Butler (Kuroshitsuji), anime/manga.
"Fangirl trap no matter which way you turn, that is all."

Young Wizards, book series, by Diane Duance.
"Young Adult fiction so layered and deep that my brsin will occasionally implode from simply amazing writing."

Pandora Hearts, anime/manga.
"Creepy rabbit toys that have bloody eyes, a girl that turns into a giant black rabbit with an even more giant scythe, memories that try to kill you, an overarcing plot that actually ENDS (unlike some anime *coughcoughNarutocoughcough*), what more could you ask for?

I'll admit, I had the same problem when I first joined. And still do, as I know next to nothing about half the fandoms people seem to like. This seems like a good way to get those of us not familiar with the more popular fandoms to have something to talk about.
As for my fandoms...

The World Ends with You - Action RPG from Square Enix
What happens when you take Kingdom Hearts, kick out Disney, and shove everyone into the middle of urban Japan with nothing but bottle caps and a pair of headphones.

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Series of light novels and accompanying Anime
About a hyperactive high school girl who is, supposedly, God and the chaos she inadvertently causes.

Mother 3 - Turn based RPG by Nintendo
Sequel to Earthbound with traveling doorknobs, fire-breathing robot dinosaurs and an army of fat guys wearing pig masks.

I like this idea. It is always good to have a new game.

The First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson

Misanthropic leper meets giants, Ravers, Drool Rockworm, and a villian named Lord Foul.

BBC's Sherlock - Live Action TV show
"Sherlock Holmes in the 21st century, with Arthur Dent as Watson!"

Tales of Vesperia - Japanese RPG video game
"Start off chasing down a thief, and end up preventing the Apocalypse, with a subtle environmental lesson sneaked in."

Bento, huh? Does that come with tempura?

For mine, there's one fandom I make references to in nearly all of my missions and firmly believe everyone should love as much as I do, so here goes:

Farscape - TV series
- Peacekeepers and Scarrans and wormholes, oh my!

This is a great idea, by the way. ^_^

~Neshomeh

I am not a Tolkien expert in any way shape or form, so the best I can say is that I liked it. It had a wee bit of the warm n' fuzzies without overloading on sap.

I'd really like to help you more but Tolkien is REALLY not my forte.

the thread directly below this one also plugging fic. Sorry!

Okay... So I took a look at the first five chapters of this thing. Here are my impressions:

Well, the ICness of the characters tends to vary a bit. Miranda and Jacob were fairly OOC when they were first introduced (Miranda doesn't really harp on her 'second in command' status that much in the games, and Jacob isn't really the kind to be confrontational), and some other lines make no sense (Garrus and Mordin have a couple lines that don't agree with their characterizations.) But on the other hand, this is the most IC I've ever seen the Illusive Man in badfic, and the writer has Mordin's speech patterns down pat. So it's not totally in character all the time, but it's not the most OOC I've ever seen people get in this continuum.

I question the logic of a second omni-tool manifesting on someone's wrist, though. That isn't plausible, since omni-tools need a free hand to manipulate, and I'm pretty sure that the omni-tool also has to have something physical there, I don't remember what. It's not just a holographic interface, so... I'd chalk that bit up to Rule of Cool abuse, since it's there to allow Shepard a second omni-blade (which will be a canon weapon come ME3, so...). That bit doesn't work.

I'd also question the Normandy's ability to repel a Yamato cannon. If you upgraded the Normandy's armor and shields in-game (which I'm assuming this fic did because they make mention of some of the other ME2 ship upgrades), it's true that you can throw a very high-powered particle beam at it and still be safe. At the same time, though, the Normandy is only a frigate, and it was designed for stealth and excellent maneuverability, not for direct dogfighting. As I don't know how Starcraft tech goes, I'd have to know how a Yamato cannon actually works in order to accurately assess how easily the Normandy could withstand it. It is feasable for the Thanix Cannon to tear right through an enemy ship, though, as that particular cannon manages to take down a Collector cruiser in two shots in-canon. Seeing as how the Collector cruiser in question was a ship that was both larger than the Normandy and had superior technology, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that it could do some serious damage to ships of another continuum.

I'm not totally sure about how fast the Normandy takes down all the ships, though. Even for the Normandy, it looks like they take down a huge amount of ships in a ludicrously small amount of time. That might be a function of the prose itself, though, because that bit was very rushed.

There's a big issue you probably wouldn't think of that came to my mind while reading this, though. See, in ME canon, not all the aliens speak English. This is handwaved by the fact that these little things called "translators" exist that allow you to understand any alien language since they translate it for you. Crossovers tackle translators in different ways, but I think the most accurate depiction is to not have 'em if the other continuum doesn't have it. Again, seeing as how I don't know Starcraft all that well, I'd have to know for certain if the Starcraft continuum has translators. If it does, then I can possibly see why the aliens would be instantly understood. If not, that could possibly be a pretty big charge.

Hm... I know that the biotic barrier that Jack summons can block smaller objects from entering. But if said object is travelling at a high velocity, that makes me less sure because the biotic barrier they're talking about can't block mass accelerator rounds from either side, in both gameplay and cutscenes. Thus, I think it would be too much of a stretch to assume that Starcraft bullets can just bounce off the thing, so that bit at least is fairly implausible.

I know that Grunt would DEFINITELY be able to charge guys while taking a ton of punishment, but I don't think people would fail to notice him charging, given that krogan are huge in comparison to humans and that the aliens are probably stealing all the attention in this situation.

The whole bit about the ME-verse technology being based on Xel'Naga technology is actually really canon breaking for the ME-continuum, though. The thing is this: the Protheans inherited the mass relays, rather than making them. So did the species before the Protheans, and the guys before them, and vice versa. See, the technology of the ME universe is based on the technology of the Reapers that go in and destroy all organic life every 50,000 years, and it's been like that basically since the beginning of the universe. It plays into their Xanatos Gambit in rather large ways, which I won't go into here. The fact that all species are essentially unwittingly playing into the Reapers' plans by developing a technology along their path is thus a piece of the Reapers that plays as a pretty big plot point throughout the first Mass Effect. As Sovereign says in the first game, "We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it." Thus, having ME-tech be suddenly based on Xel'Naga technology creates a massive plot canyon in the ME continuum. That is definitely implausible, and if this were ever to be sporked, then this would constitute a canon break in the ME continuum. I'm sure it would also create a canon break in the Starcraft continuum as well, given the nature of Prothean technology as I've explained above.

Reaper indoctrination not working in the Starcraft continuum is also very implausible. If the experiences we've had with indoctrination throughout the entire ME franchise say anything right now, nobody can escape indoctrination, especially since you don't know that you're being indoctrinated when you get indoctrinated.

So overall, my impression is that this fic is pretty canon-breaking for the ME continuum, but not in the way you'd expect. It's possible for the Normandy to do some of the things it does in-fic, but my bigger concern is in the stuff that attempts to bring the Starcraft and ME universes together, because it makes no sense at all and breaks canon for both continua. Honestly, part of me is wondering if this author ever played the first game, so yeah.

I'll have to look through the rest of this thing at a later time, but for now, those are my impressions.

I do realize I've already posted this before under a badfic thread, but since then I've been told by a friend that the things pulled off by the ME characters are plausible. I'm not sure if I was trolled by my friend or I'm seriously misjudging ME tech, so bear with me here...

You could've added this question to your previous question thread, which isn't that far down the Board.

Anyway, yes, I think that counts as a mini.

~Neshomeh

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one instance where that was the case, but I can't recall specific examples. More research is needed.

To the Researchmobile!

This is definently a lot more light hearted then usual for missions, and my mental image is pretty cartoony. A very funny and amusing mission through and through.

My favorite part has to be... Hmm. Probably the CAD talking HK-47! Yeah, great idea using that, he was my favorite character! ^___^ Either that or the execution method, having a faulty sense of humor is something I'd never have thought of. Good idea!

I loved that gag. It was one of my favorite parts of The Emperor's New Groove.

I don't know the Dragon Age canon at all, but that Sue was patently awful. Good kill.

I thought the interaction between the agents at the very end was a bit odd, with the sudden prostate begging, but overall the interactions were good. It kept the mission moving along nicely and made some nice jokes with the fic.

And I find it amusing. The Sue's trajeck past was not convincing the agents after her over-the-top show of her Suelike characteristics.

I just had to say, the two assassinations in this mission are probably my favorite ever! (As in, funniest.)

I noticed a few minor issues in the mission. First,
"Marcello seemed to be in a ‘good mood’ and thought she was looking ‘exceptionally pretty.’ he bHgan to smile, and there was a light in his green eyes as he asked her if Angelo was bothering her earlier, although he was there to witness it."
The underlined part looks to be missing a sentence seperator and contains a typo. Short after that
"The papers made a special effort to saturate every square foot of the interior's volume"
Volume does not work with square feet. Use a different expression to show that they are filling up the whole room.

Other than that, the mission was rather well done.

...but I knew that Sue was really bad from the moment she started being all "I don't want your sympathy, you idiots!" That is a common trait with trajeck Sues indeed.

Really fun mission, you two. :D