Dec 2011 Archive, part a

Mainly, I'm wondering where you got the idea that being informal is frowned upon. I don't think that's the case. Heck, I've heard complaints recently that pages aren't entertaining enough. Is there something saying otherwise somewhere?

Also, I don't think there's anything saying all pages must have images, either. They're nice, of course, but still, nothing to panic over.

It's okay to take things slow, too. Just do one article at a time, and research twice, edit once if you're worried about mistakes. Really, it's no big deal. {= )

Not that more people shouldn't help edit the wiki, of course.

~Neshomeh

Not sure how much I'll get done, though.

Sorry your post got ignored for so long! Here's what I've found with a little bit of research.

This appears to be the most recent Yu-Gi-Oh! OFU, last updated in October:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6134663/1/Official_Fanfiction_University_of_YuGiOh
In chapter three, it names mini-Kuribohs (minibohs, as it calls them) as the mini for Yu-Gi-OH!.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6134663/3/Official_Fanfiction_University_of_YuGiOh

This does contradict our wiki, which says the mini is the signature monster of the misspelled character's name (which is clunky and complicated, and doesn't address non-dueling characters), but I can't seem to find any mention of this appearing in a mission or OFU anywhere.
http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/Mini (way down at the bottom)

So, to get back to your original questions, OFUs do not require permission (they once did from Miss Sandman, but she's not active anymore; might still behoove mentioning her in the opening author's note) but it's generally bad form to make a new one for a fandom that already has one.

By extension, the OFU I linked above seems to have created the first specific Yu-Gi-Oh! mini, which generally means that's the one the PPC will adopt. (I did find another, older OFU, but it only mentions minis once as mini-duel monsters, which is too general to be of much help.)

Anyone, am I in the wrong here? Can anyone find the source of the mini type mentioned on our wiki?

Hm, I know there's an entry for it on the Minis page, but past that I don't know.

A mini could probably be a Kuriboh, or (as the page says) the signature monster of whoever's been misspelled.

Dammit, botched up the title...@_@

I already told you my opinions and theories in main chat, but I figure I'd give a stamp of public approval, since those are always nice. I look forward to the missions these two take on.

They sound like they're going to be a lot of fun!

You have a talent for writing amusing banter, of which I definitely approve. Look forward to seeing a mission!

Elcalion, amused

I'm definitely looking forward to some missions with these two.

These two should be even more hilarious on missions. :D

Fun times. There wasn't a whole lot, but this pair of agents looks like a lot of fun. I can't wait to see what you do with these two. :D

Fortunately, I am not at a lecture hall, so I could giggle loudly at the whole "Shaaaame!"-thing. Well done! :D

Unfortunately, I'm in a lecture hall.

Anyways, there's not much going on in this thing, but it's funny. I like Heather and yes, I'm looking forward to see them in action.

I loved it. Your agents work so well together, and the kids are really cute (although now I'm wondering what'll happen if the quarian kid wants to go on his Pilgrimage). Nice one as usual, dude.

I'm gonna fight this bill as much as I can, 'cause no big business is gonna keep me from watching videos on Youtube!

...Look, I get what they're trying to do - as my brother put it, "We live in a generation where we don't have to pay for stuff" - but this is JUST GOING TOO FAR.

I already have a hard time finding certain videos on the internet, let alone Youtube! Can't they just let me watch an episode of Kamen Rider in peace?!?!

...SIGH. I hate big businesses.

Every PPC mission, OFU, etc. EVER WRITTEN will need to be taken off the internet. On top of that, every fic ever written will deleted. I am assuming that you can determine what would happen then.

This is really heartwarming. I look forward to their next mission...

Yay, Tommy and Orken made up this time! And seeing Orken cry...? Aw...

Good job as always, Guv. :D

I'm a sucker for sappy interpersonal things like this... and this was great. I love Thomas and Orken, and I love their slightly screwy, usually strained, always funny, and sometimes genuinely heartwarming relationship.

Have some muffins. ^.^

Hi, have some fudge!

We love new people! Welcome!

Here, have some Robert Graettinger for the road:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98zBYz2Oa94

HELLOOOO!!!!! DOOOON'T WOOOOORRRRY, I AM JUST IMITATING BRIAN BLESSED!

Another Discworld fan!

Here is a rock with a hole in it. It's magical, everyone knows that rocks with holes in them are magical.

...It just so happens I love everything you've mentioned. :D

I was pretty much raised into D&D by looking at my dad's old books, and right now I'm learning to be a DM myself.

I am kind of a rabid Whovian and Pterry fan, I've just got into the Dresden Files... oh, and TVTropes still persists in eating my life.

I also snark at anything that moves, up to and including the daily news. It kind of makes me feel better.

I am open to conversation and general gleefulness about all these things, and I gift you hereby with a silver fob watch. Just don't open it.

Awesome to meet you, new person. :P

Have a bag of pebbles and a Random Shiny Object. 's good to meet you.

I like your fandoms. *nod* I've never been involved with Dresden, but I am a big fan of Discworld, and have no issues with the Doctor. What are your thoughts on Forgotten Realms, Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter?

Also, good to meet a fellow D&D player. :D I've been involved in my first game since the beginning of the year. It's addictive.

Good to see another D&Der around :) What edition do you play? And what sort of character? I've never tried anything other than 3.5, but my party has reached the point where we're writing fanfic of our own story, and then MSTing it :P.

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay!

Hail, fellow Troper. Here, have a plate of Generic Muffins. Since they're Generic, you can choose the ingredients - simply describe them, and they'll transform accordingly. Bon appetite!

Here, take this rain detecting rock. It will suddenly become wet if it's raining.

Greetings, new friend! Help yourself to the sack of venomous arthropods. Don't worry; they don't bite!

Welcome to the PPC! Have an Official Hipster Scarf - you've probably never heard of it, but it's guerenteed to make you at least 42% more hipster!

Good day to you and welcome to the PPC! Have a mutant goldfish*!




*May or may not be goldfish. No returns/refunds. Not responsible for damages to property or person should mutant powers manifest themselves.

The new address is http://rc1587.wordpress.com .

If the redirect thing works, however, the old Splinder address should get you there, too.

When you explained it suddenly everything made sense, or rather it made sense why nothing made sense. Do you think the author realised they had done it?

This was fun to read. Very different from most missions. Very . . . bizarre badfic. You set up the realization by your agents of the personality swap between Raoul and the Phantom very well. (I was expecting you to keep the jerkiness of Myrin as his real attitude, and just kill him, so I was surprised to see him get recruited.)

I want to bring up something I see in your writing quite a bit. When you're narrating a character do something, and you've already used their name, you frequently start referring to them by some phrase. Xanthus becomes "the disguised Turian," Cindy is "the former Beaxbatons student" and Anneli is "the female agent" or some-such. This is really clunky and detracts from the actual action. These sentences would read a lot nicer if you used "she" or "he" instead. If you think the readers might get confused between who you're referring to, just use their names again.

I really like that swipe at Justin Bieber. Keep it up!

Then a rather good one comes along. Hopefully Sonic, etc. will recover.

Assume every piece of writing as this one as a trollfic unless given concrete evidence of it being an honest piece of work, just for the sake of sanity. This fic could pass off as legitimate plain bad fanfic if it were not for what's in the author's notes and in the profile description. It's just too overdone to be real.

Crossover with Mass Effect 2 (post-Arrival DLC) and middle of SC2 Campaign, right before the "Breakout" mission.

Mass Effect 2: Wings of Liberty (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7157475/1/Mass_Effect_2_Wings_of_Liberty) rated T.

I need a second opinion on this, since I haven't played any Mass Effect before. The fic itself is average story and SPaG wise, but what really, REALLY irks me is the fact that the story continually portrays ME tech as much more advanced than the Terran's. Shepard's team overpowers a sizable group of Marines and Marauders (equipped with Stimpacks and combat shields to top it off),declares Gauss rifles to be inferior to their weaponry (the author has never heard of F=1/2m v squared, apparently), and has the Normandy shrug off a Yamato cannon blast (http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Yamato_cannon) In game, Terran tech is nothing to be sneezed at, with cloaking for some units, regenerating metal, powered armoursuits for every soldier, and super-efficient FTL travel.

The sight of defiled canon is starting to get to me.

I don't even know Hetalia that well, and I thought it was bad. I recommend that no Agents native to the Harry Potter continuum get within ten feet of the thing, lest they fly into a murderous rage. Yikes.

I just...I just don't know what to say. I took one look at her upcoming projects and got out of there immediately. Bleach and Harry Potter!? WHAT IS SHE THINKING?!?! As a fan of both those series I can certify that there is quite possibly no odder or more out of place combination! The only real similarity they have is that both have ghosts, and if you're going to use that for justification why not mix Casper the Friendly Ghost in with the shinigami?!

I think I get why IAHF's most recent seminar was on nation and human relationships. That bottom fic... Ugh. Russia is so OOC it's ridiculous. (And what is 'askaban', by the way?)

Oh, and is it even possible to be in a coma for two years and still come back out perfectly healthy in the end? I don't think that happens that way.

How can she spell 'plea' correctly but not 'shocking'? So she sees the wizard world as using Potter, which is a popular interpretation, so removes him from the story utterly? Perhaps she's just trying to keep him safe and away from all the nasty wizards.

This person did a WarcraftxHarryPotter! This is the description:
Night Watcher, daughter to Sylvannas and Arthas former high commander, has to leave her son in the hands of James Potter. She will come and get him, when the time is right.

You can't...just...ARGH!!

This girl just created a whole army of uncanonical brothers and sisters of Harry! And each main one is a victim of "abused by Evil!Dursleys/Evil!Potters/Evil!Wizards" to put the plot into motion. Talk about variety.

And I got it only reading the summary of each of them. I pity the Agents who will have to tackle all of this.

I'm... I'm not even going to bother reading this.

Just. Wow. No.

Given the religious symbolism inherent in the Kings' Cross scene in the last book, in which Dumbledore appears to be some angelic or perhaps deified being, surely the author was continuing the same theme with an allegorical retelling of the fall of Lucifer, perhaps some sort of cleverly-written tribute to Paradise Lost.
Thus we see Harry as Dumbledore's 'son' and heir lead the armies of Heaven (or Hogwarts, which is populated by Dumbledore's students or metaphorical creations) consisting of Dumbledore's faithful followers against his fallen students the Death Eaters, led by the greatest and most powerful, Voldemort.

Not quite sure how to work in Ron being put in Azkaban for rape, though. Some sort of creepy reverse-gender Fall of Man, perhaps?

I'm thinking the China character is a replacement. Sure, in canon China has gotten angry before (he broke holes through several walls when he got fed up in one episode), but he would never go so far as to do what that China in the fic does. (Sure, I only read the first chapter, but I think that's enough to understand his behavior...) I would suggest not too violent of an execution, however.

As to workings within Hetalia, I don't think the harm done to America and England would cause spikes in violent crime. Considering that such an incident would probably never come up besides in this fic I would think that it wouldn't affect the country. My theory tends to be that scars and serious wounds and the like are usually representative of actual events such as battles and perhaps large national tragedies (I do believe China has a large scar on his back from a war with Japan), and that it would probably not occur the other way around. Most people would probably agree along those lines (though other fans correct me if I'm wrong). That help some?

I'd send them to DAVD's Medical section. Those guys are set up specifically to handle DAVD worthy cases.

Although, I usually just kind of gloss over what Medical does. The agents deliver the canons. The Nurses take them into a room, and the agents wait.

I once said that Dr. Watson had literal cobwebs in his brain that Medical had to remove. In the same mission Holmes died from an OD of some mystery drug and they were both fine within an hour.

Oh and don't forget Bacta. That stuff is awesome.

I don't want to read any more missions where the Agents have "fun" with killing the Sue. I'm sick of them.

For that matter I've been really weirded out with some of your recent work, though since you'd been here longer I felt kind of uncomfortable saying anything. I don't know if that was your intention or not, but it was the end effect and it really made me reconsider what I wanted to see out of not only your stuff but my own, and PPC work in general.

This isn't the best place for it so that's all I'm going to say, but I'd really prefer to talk some more about this and voice concerns if you're willing to chat more privately.


Now, all that nasty stuff said, considering that Hetalia IS a light canon the best solution would be a light one. If you can't just repair the eyes and the fic argues that harm done is represented by crime, then replace England's eyes with security cameras--wouldn't be hard for DoSAT to gin up some mini-sized ones. Blink, and they're back to being eyes, and you get a solid Britisher joke out of it too.

Limbs can probably just be reattached by Medical, but a similar analogy can likely be drawn if not to go with the crime theme. Represent the restoration of a "long arm of the law" with like a taser or pepper spray.

And while I'm making suggestions, since Villain Stus are so rare, I think the Medical Study subsection would adore you if you could capture the China replacement alive instead of straight killing him. That would be a fate worse than death, for sure.

In this DAVD mission, we see Thranduil healed from being tortured almost to death and beheaded, so it looks like Medical can patch up anything.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ithalond couldn't get his hands back because he was an OC, while Medical has a much easier time getting canon characters back to full health because that's their appointed, canon state. It's the same reason Medical can bring dead canons back to life, but not agents; the true author's influence over the canon character is on Doc Fitz's side, helping put the canon back the way they belong.

My Google Chrome has been acting up ever since I've joined the board...it sometimes refuses to show sites I've been in countless times, and sometimes it's just turns right around and lets me in. Same thing for Firefox...haven't tried it with IE though...

I call it the Troll Virus.

My Norton firewall was blocking intrusion attempts from both the Board and the Wiki. Then after a while, I tracked down my attacker's IP and set my firewall to automatically block all connections to and from that address. That solved it for me.

I doubt that the Board is giving you viruses. I really can't comment on any of the spin-offs, though. I do think we would have noticed that before now, in either case.

Unfortunately, I can't offer any other reasonable explanation for your virus troubles.

As a fairly fresh inductee, I'd say probably have another look at the fic, but if you do spork it, I'd keep the authorship in doubt until it can be confirmed one way or the other.

Tara's writing style seemed fairly easy to duplicate if a skilled troller knew what to look for and what made the "real" Tara tend to tick.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7529166/1/Time_Of_Your_Life

I'm scared

Let's see what kind of badness we're in for.

Just check the Comprehensive Dictionary out of the Library, that's what I always do. Why make things difficult?

-Steve D., DMS

http://www.realelvish.net/

I keep this one bookmarked for reference.

councilofelrond.com has a really good set of dictionaries and a forum where you can ask questions. Also lessons if you've got the time :)
Obviously, you have to join for those last two, though.

councilofelrond.com has a

Can I please kill this person.

...I'm just gonna put this on my "To-Spork List..."

Such a crossover wouldn't involve any Scott Pilgrim plot or characters- merely the storytelling, themes, and ideas. Presenting Mass Effect in the style of Scott Pilgrim, using that kind of goofy humor to parody it... that might be kind of fun....

Hmm, its not the worst fan fic I've read. However, its far from the best. My only real problem with it is the action scenes, which are poorly described and the fact that I really, really don't like first person narration.

Still I must agree, why did they choose Mass Effect and Scott Pilgrim? True they are both quite excellent and the idea of Scott Vs. Shepard is a very entertaining one, but the whole plot thing feels odd and a little absurd.

To be honest, that fic is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. I know it's utterly stupid and idiotic, but for some reason I can't help but like it anyway. It might make for interesting sporking material in the near future, though...

But then I transferred to get into Nursery, so maybe I don't count.

Elanor (DBS > DW > Ops)

I swear I'll become Lord of the Question Treads by the end of the year if I keep this up.

Anyhow, I'm starting to formulate a story for a prospective Intelligence Agent and I was wondering what I should read to get me up to speed on the workings of that Department. I've read the wiki pages and all available reports but I'd still like to know more. There doesn't seem to be much canon for Intel, and even less active agents. I figure there is a reason for that (who wants to read the adventures of Bob, the guy reading stuff in the Sorting Room anyways?), but is there anything I should read to gain insight into DoI?

Mission Writing Guide

It's not specifically labeled a FAQ (though it is in the FAQ category), but it covers why two agents in the field is recommended, and may answer other questions for you. {= )

~Neshomeh

Agents work in whatever structure works for them. Really, it's up to the spin-off. There's been at least one spin-off that have had one agent as mission control, or stayed at the RC while the others went off to duty... I think Mithiriel, Agent Ithalond's wife stayed in the RC and did stuff like cooking and archival work. While she wasn't an action agent, she was very loyal to the PPC.

But yeah, really it's your call. Sometimes the FAQ doesn't say things because it's up to you. And really, I'm happy for that because I'd hate to see every spin-off become the same.

http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/Category_talk:Slain_Mary_Sues

I like the idea of the Sue suffix. I think that might be a community issue though. As for division, I say we should all take a chunk. As long as one person (whose in this "group") says we should keep a page, I say we air on the side of caution and keep it. I can divide them up if none of you want to. As for coordination, I'm seeing the talk page as the most popular spot to do this.

Sounds good. Should we divide up the pages among us, or just all tackle them all at once?

Also, as a suggestion, I'd like to name all Sue&Stu pages in "Sue's Name (Sue)" format. When randomly browsing around the wiki, it can be difficult to differentiate Sue pages from Agent pages by their name alone, and I think marking all of them "(Sue)" would just be helpful.

Personally I wouldd prefer to communicate by email, if only because the computer I usually use won't allow me to edit pages for some reason, and if I want to do that I have to switch to the Mac (which isn't actually difficult, it's just kind of annoying). However, using the talk page would be fine if that's what people prefer.

An alternative to emails, could be using the talk page for the Slain Mary Sue category, but otherwise I'm game.

If a Sue-page is noteworthy, but needs a re-write, then if the agents' boarder is still active, we could perhaps ask her/him to do the expansion. Otherwise we can figure it out on a case-by-case basis.

My only concern is whether e-mails about Sue pages might get lost in an active inbox. But since I don't have an alternative idea ....

Very, very funny. Picturing Ebenezer's deadpan was snerk-worthy, Nicodemus's exchange had me dying of laughter. Well done, that dude!

Oh yeah! I've read this, and I liked it.

I don't quite believe that fictional characters DO exist in the Nevernever, or how Pinkie got there, but I still enjoyed this.

I could certainly go into a long essay on this (and I might later), but on this point:

All of the regular arguments PPCers use to defend the term Mary Sue - that they perpetuate negative stereotypes, that they are boring characters - these are all soundly defeated in this essay by pointing out that those traits can all be pointed out /individually/ and so there's no reason to use a gendered, ambiguous and loaded term to describe such characters.

Of course all of Mary Sue's traits can be pointed out individually. But that doesn't mean there's not a good reason to use one term. When certain literary components appear in conjunction with each other time and time again in works of fiction (and in real life), it is useful for people to sort them into categories for ease of discussion. Isn't that what TV Tropes is all about?

I can't prove that the term isn't ambiguous and loaded, but I'd be surprised if someone could prove that it was. All points in that essay are well-made, but not that hard to refute. And I'd be very astonished if someone could prove that it was both loaded and ambiguous at the same time. Either "Mary Sue" has a meaning that everyone knows about (loaded), or it has a meaning that no one really knows about (ambiguous).

As for making up a new term only to be used by the PPC...wouldn't that go directly against your suggestion of making the PPC more accessible to new people, especially people who come from places like TV Tropes where the Mary Sue term is widely used? (It would also imply that we are somehow ashamed of having used the term in the past, which would come with a stigma and language-drift barrier attached to older PPC writings. Yay, difficult for newbies and offensive to oldbies at the same time!)

Sorry that you're leaving us, though. Hope you find another fun place online!

~Araeph

I don't really care enough to address any of anybody's points about Mary Sues. It's just jargon, and were there a push to change the term used, I have problem with adapting my vocabulary as long as the newer term had a convenient way to shorten it.

(Warning: tl;dr may follow.)

What I am on about, is that I'd like to point out that hS's poll/survey/whatever earlier this year did indicate that a majority of us do want some kind of change to the layout in some way, and roughly two thirds of us want to leave this board all together. And then nothing happened. Until about two or three months ago this got brought up in the IRC, a big discussion happened, about why a change to basically any kind of board other than this one was a bad idea, and ultimately nothing came of it. Except for the fact that I started to notice a few trends every time the subject comes up (aside from absolutely nothing happening).

As far as I can gather, the major arguments against moving to a newer board, or even better a proper forum system are thus:
-We can't change the links to this board on some older sites/this is the place returning oldbies know to come to. (Easily solved by placing a large, noticeable link on the top saying 'The new home of the PPC is here' or something like that, and having someone come back here occasionally and adding trash responses to old topics to make sure this board doesn't get deleted due to inactivity.)
-Forums and organization will fracture the community. (Proper organization can neatly dodge that problem, but if people are still unsure about that, then there's no problem with just having a single forum with a multitude of threads. Also, this one pretends like there's not already a split between people like me who mainly frequent the IRC and people who avoid it entirely. If anything, a better board would pull some of us back. I know it would for me.)
-Topics dropping off the front page is a good thing. (I actually had to have the logic behind that explained to me, and I still don't agree with it. It indicates a lack of trust in the community to know when to drop a subject, which is troubling. There's also the nice little bit where newbies who make too many threads too soon, or people who make multiple badfic threads when there's already one near the top get yelled at because doing that pushes topics off of the front page.)
-Authority is bad, and we'd have to have moderators and stuff. (Admittedly this is a newer one, but it's possibly the most troubling of all of them, as it indicates either a lack of trust in your fellow PPCer and their likelyhood to not abuse their power, a lack of trust in the community to not not be jealous of those with the modpower, or that there is such little trust in the IRC that having mods (or, well, A mod at the moment) and designated arbitrators is fine for them but heaven forbid we add those to the board. Also? This one is nearly a direct quote. There was a long discussion on why mods are or are not a bad thing, and how one would go about selecting said mods. I made quite a few stupid suggestions, but ultimately I'd think that elections like we do for the PGs or DAs would work fine.)

So yeah. There have been other arguments, but those are the ones that spring to mind, and the last one is really the only one without a real solution. Topics not dropping has a variety of solutions from locking or deleting old topics, to making it so that new posts don't bump topics, to simply getting a new board that does drop the topics after a time. I would like note that even though I may not remember all of the arguments against moving, I do remember that a surprising number of them had me going "Really? Do you have so little faith in the community/your fellow PPCers?" which is something that should probably be addressed. Of course, given my lack of faith in the community's ability to not sart or get involved in drama, maybe I'm just being a bit hypocritical.

This does however lead me into another... well, I'd say point, but at the rate I'm typing, it'll probably be a rant.
There is, as DS pointed out, a certain dismissive attitude about the IRC. I, myself, have been told by boarders to not mention the IRC's problems here, because you lot didn't want drama here. That's all fine and dandy, but if I actually bother to come here, it's usually because I was directed here. And if I actually bother to mention problems? It's because they affect the whole community. Or at least, they should. Just because I mention that something was brought up on the IRC does not make it "an IRC problem". We are not separate communities. Or at least, we shouldn't be. However, the IRC is continuously treated like it's somehow inferior or separate from the board, despite it being the most active hub in the PPC and just as important and legitimate as the board. To provide a reversed example, this would be like if people said that the IRC was the only thing that really mattered, and the board was just a bulletin board for updates and the occasional idle conversation. The each hub for our community is just as important as the other, and people need to start acting like it. I don't avoid the board because I think it's not important. I avoid it because it uses outdated software that became obsolete well before dial-up did, and because the host of problems I see with it (Which I fully recognize some people see as advantages for one reason or another) show its age every time I visit. Which are entirely stupid reasons, I know, but my point is that it's not because of any lack of respect for the board's importance. Similarly, avoiding the IRC because it's unimportant is stupid and wrong. Avoiding it because you have problems with the technology is still stupid, but forgivable as long as you're aware of how important it is.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to avoiding the board like a plague, and praying that I don't recall any of what I've done tonight once I sober up.

Incidentally, SkyyRum, while an amusing pun, is a terrible idea when you're a light-wieght like me.

Hey, DS. Just want to say we were sorry to hear about you leaving, but if that is your decision then good luck and don't be afraid to stop by every once in a while.

Now, on to the points.

1) Inflexible Adherence to the 'Way Things Have Always Been'

What we do here in the PPC is write fanfic. We right fanfic of the Original Series. As a community, we believe that when we write fanfiction, we need to leave the world in as good a condition as when we got there, as if we were visiting someone's house. This is why the Original Series is required reading. It is our canon. It sets the rules for the universe. I don't see a problem with insisting that everyone read TOS before writing PPC stories. It is like insisting that someone read the Harry Potter series before writing fanfiction of that. It is something that we advocate in the community.

As for the out-dated tech on the Board, it is not a matter of fragmentation of the group. It is the fact that there is a growing number of PPC-related sites that link to the board, that we don't have access to change. There is also the point that it is a good thing that posts can fall off the front page, and don't get resurrected every time someone posts in them. Neshomeh would like it known that she also doesn't like the idea of separate sections for separate topics, as that is a surefire way to fragment the group.

The paradox you mentioned is an oversimplification of the message. It should say, "Know where you are coming from before you venture off the road." We encourage people to explore, but if you are exploring Africa (writing original fic) and calling it Asia (the PPC), then there is a problem.

Phobos would like to note that he agrees that there is a lot of inflexibility in some members of the PPC, but that the community balances that with people who would like to burn everything down and start from scratch. He thinks it comes out to a happy medium most of the time.

2) Ferocious defense of the term 'Mary Sue'

We don't use the TV Tropes definition, so we don't know that the article you linked really applies in this situation. However, we would like to address a few of the things that were mentioned in it.

We hold male and female characters to the same standard in the PPC. Are they too powerful for the canon? Did they gain this power for no reason? Does everyone inexplicably adore them within two seconds of meeting them? Probably a Sue/Stu. One of the most important things in our definition of a Sue/Stu is that it doesn't follow the rules of the world it is in. Batman has many Stuish traits, but he is in a world where that sort of thing happens all the time.

Phobos is fond of saying that Sues/Stus can be written well, unpopular though that position is in the PPC. He says, if it looks like a duck (Sue/Stu), sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck, then it is probably a duck. If the duck is in a pond, do we care that the duck is where it is? No. However, we do care if we see a duck in a dungeon. It is out of place.

Batman is a Stu. We don't care because the rules of the world tell us that his level of Stuishness is acceptable. The villains in his world are usually at or above his level. If Batman were in an episode of NCIS he would be out of place because he has all of these advantages that don't exist in that world.

[We see that, as we were writing this, there was an exchange between you and Alleydodger. We would like to address a couple of points you brought up there as well.]

To say that there are no other literary archetypes that use gender specific names is patently untrue. A clear example is the Wizard/Witch archetype. Additional point about this archetype, there is no standard definition. Sometimes they aren't even related concepts at all. Other examples are Hero/Heroine, Priest/Priestess, the Judas, the Jezebel and the Benedict Arnold (the last three are other examples of people's names being used as an archetype).

As for the assertion that people in circles other than ours use the term Mary Sue as an insult and thus no one should use it, we disagree. People use the term Gay as an insult all the time. However, the Gay community continues to use it and has even run ad campaigns to educate the public as to the correct usage of the word. We believe that this is a more productive way of dealing with this issue than just coming up with a different word that means the same thing. The baggage will travel with the definition and we will be having this same discussion in the future. (So, you think these powerful, beautiful, female characters are anomalies? That is sexist!)

3) Elitism

We're not sure if you were around during the TV Tropes editing spree, but Neshomeh was, and she'd like to clarify what actually went on there as she recalls.

It had nothing to do with tropers being "unworthy" and everything to do with the fact that people actually were showing up with the wrong idea of what the PPC was about, and it was getting kind of ugly around here. Namely, there a series of incidents involving people focusing on finding squickier and squickier fics to spork, and creating more and more tricked out, uber-powerful, Sue/Stuish agents. We determined that people were getting that idea from the high prevalence of links to Tawaki and Laburnum's stories with little else to balance them, so we set about trying to correct the matter. We weren't just deleting things--we went trope by trope and asked ourselves, "Does this relate to the group as a whole? If yes, let's add more examples of the trope." We only deleted things that really had little to do with the PPC as a whole and only appeared in one or two spin-offs.

Also, it was about this time that we started writing the Guide to the PPC and FAQ for Newbies, and all that other educational material. The learning curve you mentioned had been made much steeper thanks to uneven representation on TVT, and we reacted by trying to level it out. We did this not because we wanted to discourage people from joining, but because we wanted the people finding us to have an accurate idea of what they were joining. [/Neshomeh]

We are wondering where you got the idea that PPCers don't like Tropers. It seems to us that a large number of PPCers are Tropers. If Tropers were undesirable, then we would probably tell them to leave when they introduced themselves as such. As it is, they get lavished with the same gifts that non-Tropers do. Can you clarify where the community has been anti-Troper?

As for how we intend to continue to grow and spread our message, we seem to be doing just fine at the moment. We had a boom of newbies in the past week, which was mind-boggling. The message is getting out there and people are continuing to find us. One of the people who found us (a few months back) was the person who edited Cupcakes. They were well received and stuck around a while to talk.

4)... ... ...nope, that's about it.

That is our side of things. Sorry this is so long, but we felt that this stuff needed to be said.

We don't bear you any ill will and we are both sad to see you go. Phobos is actually proud that you came back long enough to post this. We will be having a word with anyone that insults you over this.

We'll talk to you later,
Phobos and Neshomeh

1. I've only been here a few month, so i'm not exactly sure about the first point. Although, I know that V.M.s post on "Mary Sues" a few month back was met with a lot of critisism.
   
   As far as I know, it isn't enforced that you read the original series in order to get permission. I said that I haven't read it (because I have no interest in Lord of the Rings) and I still got my permission.
   
   2. No comment. For me, a Mary Sue is just a badly written character, male or female.
   
   3. I have no idea what you're talking about with TvTropes. All I know is that we should ask before we update it. I think it would be pretty cool though if the page were updated with more examples from more recent missions though.
   
   The part about people who read Tvtropes not being worthy to join; I don't see it. I found the PPC off of TvTropes, and so did a few others.
   
   Although, in the IRC, i've seen people get jumped on for saying things that really aren't a big deal. A friend I introduced said something as a joke and the reaction to it, which was basically a "WHAT THE HECK?! YOU'RE WRONG!!" scared him off, as he hasn't posted anything since. I also saw someone make a joke saying that what we were doing basically was the definition of uncool, and some one else jump on them a bit.
   
   In the past few weeks I have actually wondered though, if we are the "good guys".Maybe with a bit of an attitude change everything will be good again.
   
   See you when things improve I guess. Hopefully that'll be soon. Be sure to check back every once in a while!

While I disagree with you, I respect your decision and wish you the best of luck.

It's been real. See you on the flipside, bro.

I don't want to counter-argue, mainly because it'd be rehashing the same old topics over and over again. I hope you've enjoyed some of your time here, at least, and hope you'll be happy whereever else you go.

Adieu,
- Sedri

I'm not 100% up to scratch on some of the events you mentioned but I do have something I want to clear up in case of misunderstanding. With your paragraph about the term Mary-Sue It comes across as if you think that that is the only term used to describe such a character when I've seen Gary-stu used just as commonly. Just wanted to know in case I didn't read it right. Thanks.

I will be hanging around this thread for a bit if anyone wants to counterpoint, etc, so you won't be speaking to an empty room.

I mean, the Clover's pretty easy-going, but he always told me I wasn't allowed to write anything... what Department are you in?

S.

Sorry about the dodgy first link. Here is a better one.

http://www.youngwriterssociety.com/page.php?id=852

What is /with/ this influx of Time Lords into HQ? Is it the promise of TARDISes? 'cos I mean really, those DoSAT-issued knock-offs aren't a patch on good old-fashioned Gallifrey-make.

I suppose it's all down to that so-called 'reboot'? It's not enough that my bloomin' planet gets blown up offscreen (and I later find out Rassilon came back when I wasn't looking - seriously, I wasn't /that/ unobservant back then... was I?), but I have to put up with new mysteriously-named fellow Time Lords every time I turn around! I dunno, it almost makes me want to leave the old place behind... maybe take a tour out in the 'verses, check up on the Avon Rift...

Nah. Not yet, I don't think. Maybe in another few years - like, just before the Hobbit film comes out.

... sorry, don't mind me. I'm just cranky. Just came out of a couple of years of hibernation courtesy of a little mixup in DoSAT to find my partner's dead and I'm still stuck in a cranky body. Then I come on here and this is the first thing I...

... hang on. This isn't the HQ network. How did I get on here?

Um, look, just really ignore me.

-Agent Morgan, DMS

WHAT!!! SHE HATES LEVIATHAN! HOW DARE SHE! I LOVE LEVIATHAN!! HOW DARE SHE! Wait, was that redundant? GOLIATH IS AWESOME!
Hmm... let's see... Discworld (quite common), Artemis Fowl (I'm an Artemis Fowl fan too), His Dark Materials (read it about three years ago), and, that's pretty much it. But still... HOW DARE SHE HATE LEVIATHAN!

I have to say, I like them. Time Lord OCs you always have to be careful about, but The Scribe sounds like she can work well. (There is precedent; check out Morgan and The Fisherman to see how Time Lord agents have been handled before.) Also, as has been mentioned, the PPC has used TARDISes before. The Fisherman still uses his. An idea could be to have her come out of the plothole somewhere dangerous like DOSAT new technologies testing or the Reality Room or something, and have her TARDIS be destroyed and unsalvageable, if you want to continue that plotline.

As for not knowing about the Time War, I think it could be a very powerful story if you write her only learning about it for the first time through the PPC.

And while "Because it's cool!" is a flimsy justification on its own, the Doctor isn't the only one to have a sonic device. Jack Harkness had a sonic blaster and seemed to imply that those, at least, weren't particularly uncommon; the Master had a laser screwdriver, mostly to be able to boast that it was so much cooler than a stupid sonic one. So if you can come up with a good reason - "sonic engineering is a popular class at the Academy," maybe - I see no reason why you can't keep it.

As for Lisa, thirteen is a bit young. I have an agent who's 17-18, and he's on the younger side of the age curve.

I would really like to see a Young Wizards-verse agent, though. I think she could be really cool.


I know this is just a short bio and you can't put everything in. But, as it looks now, if you tighten up the backstory a little and flesh them out as characters, I think you could have a great pair of agents on your hands!

Were this a request I was PGing, I would probably make my call based on how you wrote the two of them in your writing sample and just make some comments on possible problems here, so I'll do that now:

The Scribe: I don't know the Whoverse so I can't make a call on the validity of her background, but she doesn't sound bad as long as the emotional connection to her TARDIS is canonical. I wouldn't name her "THE Scribe", though - aside from being awkward to read, it'll be irritating to type so many times - but just "Scribe". Also, I'm assuming that the Time War is a known part of Whoverse canon, and so I believe it'd be almost impossible for an active agent working in that field not to have active access to the knowledge.

I like the touch about indigestion. Saying she "absolutely hates squick" is all nice and good, but squick is subjective, so all you're actually saying here is that she hates the things that make her cringe and hide, which is just redundant - you haven't defined what it actually is that she hates.

Lisa: Generally, unless something has changed while I've been away, if a fic is unpublished it doesn't actually affect canon - as in, it hasn't gone out into the world of public access and so can't affect the word worlds. You could easily change this by pretending the fic was once posted and then deleted.

Having Lisa be speshully dumped in the PPC is not the best idea - how about just have her be recruited like so many other agents are? You don't want PPC agents to have things happen "luckily" very often; it makes them seem favoured by the Ironic Over-Power/Universe/TPTB/et cetera, which they never are. I worry about her youth in that it's far too easy to write children (or teenagers) as adults, or at least as equals with adults. I see that you're going for contrast with Scribe, but I don't think it needs to be that extreme. If you don't want to change the fic she came from, how about saying she was thirteen when she was recruited, and put to work behind a desk for the next five or six years until she could go out into the field?

Overall, for the both of them, you're paying a lot of attention to how they look, but as this is just bios I'm not worried. Their interactions oculd be very funny; just be careful not to push them to extremes just to make contrast.

And... those are all my initial thoughts. I would like to see some more depth of character for both of them, but again, that's what the writing sample is for. I hope that was helpful!

The Scribe: First, about TARDISes and the PPC: The PPC used them occasionally, and at least one pair of agents uses one as an RC. So they seem to work in the PPC.
Another thing: Why is it that Time Lords all have a sonic whatever? It was an invention of The Doctor... or has it been leaked and I don't know about that?
Also, since when are Very Bad Ideas endearing? They're very bad.

Lisa: The mysterious sole surviver of a deletion. Does that whole "my world has been deleted and I've probably been floating through the space between spaces" thing even bother her? She's thirteen. Also, oh wonder, she still has her manual... what a nice coincidence.
Also, thirteen seems to be a bit young to become an agent.

I am leaving the PPC and recalling all publications. Anyone who has contributed to the Tangodown! may request an electronic copy of their work (with all other text redacted) by emailing me, until February 28th, 2012, when all content associated with Tangodown! will be deleted. I'll stick around and watch this thread for a bit in case anyone else wants to say something.

[Majority of text redacted]

At first, Nume didn't realize that Sylvia was talking to him. There were lots of people in the room; she could have been addressing anyone in the general area, and anyway, he wasn't finished with the Yeerk. As Orken walked away, he curled his lip—it might almost have been a smile, sort of—and was about to remark to Ilraen how much the Yeerk seemed to like the sound of his own voice, but Ilraen shook his head and pointed over Nume's shoulder, anxiety writ large in his green eyes (not literally, thank goodness).

Nume turned around. "What?" he said before taking in the woman's appearance. "Oh, that. Well, I warned people to get out of the way. If you didn't, it's your own fault." He folded his arms again.

Ilraen shook his head. He wanted no part of this. "Excuse me, I think I saw someone else I know. Good-bye!" He went to look for Maeryn/Kaliel.

Ilraen could only stare, wide-eyed, as his partner—his partner—charged into the room and doused the fairy (and anyone unlucky enough to be standing in the same trajectory) with punch.

"Excuse me, Orken," he said weakly. "I need to . . . " he trailed off as he approached his partner.

Nume, for his part, watched the fairy flee the room with satisfaction, though not pleasure. There were still flames, though the smoke was rising into the rafters for the most part, and no one seemed to be suffering from it. He looked around and spotted Ilraen coming toward him.

"There you are," Nume said.

"Here I am," Ilraen agreed. "What are you doing here? You told me you would not come."

The black-haired man shrugged. "Came to keep an eye on things. Some fishy messages were going around, and Maintenance hinted the power might go out somewhere. I figured a mass panic would ruin my evening more than the Lounge, though given it was on fire when I got here . . . " he shook his head with a grimace.

"Most of them are out now," Ilraen observed, watching the largest blaze above mysteriously die down as, unbeknownst to him, all the oxygen was sucked away. "Since you are here, you can meet Agent Orken." Seizing Nume's arm cheerfully, despite the man's resistance, Ilraen dragged him back toward the food table.

"Orken, this is my partner, Nume. I do not believe you've met."

"Agent Supernumerary," Nume added for the sake of completeness, pulling his arm free and eying Orken dubiously. "So, you're the Yeerk?"

(( I apologize for Nume's complete lack of tact. ~Neshomeh ))

(( Since it's starting to look a bit cramped down there on my screen. ))

Ilraen flinched at the shout from the red-haired girl with the radio and watched for a moment, until she left and everything settled down again. He shook his head, then took the brown-wrapped package from the top of Orken's stack and replaced it with his, which had the unmistakeable heft of two middle-sized paperbacks. He watched Orken tear into it with his characteristic precision. Inside were copies of A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess and Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.

"I'm not certain if you have read these before," Ilraen said, "but since you are in a science fiction division, I thought you might like to have them anyway. If you don't, that is. They're considered classics in World One. I read them both during the quarantine in 2008 and found them fascinating." He watched for Orken's reaction, unconsciously hunching his shoulders and turning over the package in his hands.

July peered at the assorted snacks, pondering what to try.

Chocolate covered pretzels, chocolate covered mints, chocolate covered orange slices, chocolate covered strawberries, chocolate covered cheese balls, chocolate covered chocolates, and what she suspected was chocolate covered ham were all within easy reach.

"Hmmm." She poked at one of the chocolate covered chocolates with a tiny plastic fork. "Someone got a it too fondue happy."

I thought it was a real party... I guess it was too good to be true, really. Oh, well. At least the hot chocolate's real.

Rather long, but very thorough. Only thing I can really complain about is 'woul' in place of 'would' when talking about the second "crowed". (“I don’t suppose you woul like several dozen more ‘gifts’ ”)

We need more drunk Cadmar, entire missions and interludes should feature a Cadmar who started drinking 2 hours before the beginning.

Do misspellings of races even spawn minis? I was under the impression it was mostly proper names and places (and sometimes bad punctuation).

More to the point, would "turin" be an ME mini or a kidnapped mini-Balrog?

A most impressive mission, very well done and well written, and while I can't say I've read the fanfic it was about, I'm rather glad I haven't.

You seem to be missing something. Like, say, beta credits. Just saying.