Nov 2011 Archive, part b

Nice. It's nice to read a bit of a "sequel" to an older mission, something we don't usually have the opportunity for. I liked seeing the agents get emotional over Time Lord!Hermione's actions, considering how thoughtless and far-reaching they were, even for a Sue.

I like it! I remember that Hermione-sue... ugh. I'm sorry you had to put up with that again.

And Steven... that was awful, what happened to him. Powerful story, though, and well-written on your part. Well done.

And the ending was sweet. The Nightmare Before Christmas is a wonderful angst-reducer.

All in all, a very cute mission :)

Have a bumper sticker! It says, "My agent sporked your Mary Sue." I hope you will find it useful. {= )

~Neshomeh

Hello! Have some fudge!

It's good to meet you!

Greetings, new friend! Have yourself a Nostalgia Filter! It makes everything look old-fashioned, yet somehow more interesting than anything you've seen in the past twenty years.

I don't know you, but we still love to have newish people here! :D

Here, have some Shostakovich for the Road:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQccC7ATJbE

I don't really have much more to say, except that it's great to have you and I'm looking forward to working with you!

I'm kind of wondering... Because I used to hang around at ffr, myself; and then they started flaming me for absolutely nothing, calling me a homophobe when there was no good reason to do it. Some of you may remember that. I mentioned that I thought it was a bad idea to write a canonically straight character as gay without looking into how his life would be different; and how important I thought it was to keep character in slash fics in-character, instead of turning them into Generic Gay Guys(tm). And somehow they thought that made me a homophobe. No, I don't know why, either. But yeah, that's what made me finally decide to leave.

I don't know why you're still hanging out there, with the way they insist you've got to agree with whatever their party line is--that you've got to reject only some kinds of bad writing, and not others. It's like some kind of high-school-girl in-group over there.

If she doesn't have any reason to comment aside from deliberately antagonizing you, that's probably exactly what she's trying to do. Don't let her. She'll probably get bored and go away.

~Neshomeh, saying what everyone else already said, but with a nifty Internet idiom.

She is part of a strange subset of feminists (as opposed to those who just want equality for all) that redefine what prejudice and discrimination mean and has clearly labelled you as some kind on enemy. My only advice is full on ignoring her and I mean not even responding to the arguments people post in your favour just acts as if she isn't there.

Not that you don't already. But I can't think of anything sillier than a person flocking to a really good piece of work and ranting and raving about something that really speaks for itself.

... I think that you won't have any trouble with that idea! ^_^

This person is obviously never going to like you, or anything you do, no matter what. Don't take it personally, and just keep doing what you want to do.

Hi, desdendelle,

Following some discussion about your permission status, we would like you to submit another sample so that we can better judge your work.

Also: we PGs are not trying to make you miserable, honest. I know I'm a harsh critic, but that doesn't mean I don't want you on the Board, or that you don't have anything to contribute here. The fact that we're going over your work so thoroughly means that it's worth taking the time to consider.

Cheers,

Araeph

Hello desdendelle,

I regret to say that, based on your post, your writing sample, and your chosen badfic, you currently do not have the skills necessary to be a good PPC mission writer.

Writing PPC missions requires:

• The ability to discriminate between the mediocre-to-subpar fics that populate a fandom, and the truly, hilariously bad fics that merit our attention. Your fic of choice is certainly not the greatest, but neither is it more than mildly bad. The crossover you chose is not particularly implausible, nor is the characterization blindingly awful. Thus, there is little to no humor to be mined from PPCing a fic like this, and your readers will quickly get bored.

• The ability to recognize unintentional hilarity in written work. This is a HUGE part of PPCing. Unfortunately, you do not seem to be able to find it in your own writing:

- Your first paragraph begins, It was a dark night, and takes place during a storm.
- Your fourth paragraph begins, His mount was a queer beast.
- Your antepenultimate paragraph ends, “Lo!” was all he said, as he mourned for his dead brother.

If you do not know why people will find these sentences exceedingly funny, you still lack the requisite experience to mock badfic.

• A mature grasp of the English language and the elements of good storytelling. Your sample pegs you firmly as a beginning writer. Critiquing the stories of others, as we do in the PPC, requires an advanced command of the written word.

For instance, in PPCing the climax usually occurs when the agents rush out to attack and subdue an uncanon element. Unfortunately, your action scenes are slow and complicated. There is one paragraph I recall where the commander shouts “Battle formations!” and the soldiers obey instantly…and then the rest of the paragraph is just the description of that action painstakingly catching up to the action itself. You can't make the soldiers seem "instantly" obedient if it takes you five sentences to describe how they're obeying. I doubt that your agents could successfully subdue a Mary Sue in an exciting way.

Also, PPC missions require a lot of dialogue and movement, as the agents react in turn to the badfic’s purple prose and inane characterization. Your writing relies too heavily on description, passive voice, and redundancy. I count three uses of passive voice in your first paragraph alone. There are too many flowery descriptions of generic landscapes, and subjects “begin” to do verbs a total of nine times within a space of two pages. This should not discourage you from writing further, but it does mean that you need much more practice before your agents can take the field.

• Originality. This may seem contradictory, as our missions are formulaic by nature. However, it is for this very reason that each new PPC writer must be able to do something unique, not only with the standard mission formula, but also with the constant cliché barrages of badfic. The entertainment value of your PPCing depends directly on a) how terrible the chosen badfic is, and b) how cleverly you can use the PPC framing device to dissect said badfic’s faults. Your writing sample demonstrates a thorough knowledge of one high fantasy trope after another, but there is more ingenuity in the helmet designs than in the new race of beings you created (which are eerily similar to the Na'vi from Avatar). There is nothing wrong with your agent profiles (apart from the grammar), but there is not enough potential for your spin-off to contribute something new to the PPC universe.

If you would like to discuss this further, you can also drop me a note on the PPC wiki.

Sorry to disappoint!

Araeph

Do you have an alternate writing piece available?

The one you linked is pretty florid; it's hard to determine your writing style from it.

The fic needed to die and your agents did a good job with it.

I just read the mission, and well, Fix and the Carver came off as being supremely overpowered, and as a Stu and Sue.

This was their first mission as I understand, and I read their bit in the Halloween cowrite, but nothing more beyond that.

The thing that alarmed me about them possibly being overpowered characters was this portion:

'Fix barely managed to dodge the centaur’s kick. In response, his senses heightened, his reflexes sharpened and most importantly, his nails became lethally sharp claws. Rather than running or dodging, Fix threw himself at Firenze, knocking him off balance. Man and centaur fell to the ground, fighting and struggling until finally, the centaur was dead. Fix managed to shove the body away and climbed to his feet. He fumbled for the miraculously unbroken RA and opened a portal.'

This comes out of essentially nowhere; he becomes suddenly super bad ass and is able to kill a centaur, essentially unarmed, in close combat. A kick from an ordinary horse can cause serious internal injuries that can kill even a full grown man, and those cases aren't even from a horse that thinks its life is in serious trouble. Those are just 'Eek! You are invading my personal privacy!' kicks.

But you have him managing to walk off, mostly in one piece and alive and in good enough health that he's still able to quip and explain what happened before he goes to Medical, where he's still in good enough condition that he walks through on his own power, as far as we can tell.

Reading his page on the wiki fills me with even less confidence that he's not a Stu. His personality section directly contradicts itself in that he's blunt, crude, and direct and cuts to the point in conversations, but he likes having conversations?

He's also described as having adrenal-reactive abilities, regarding the claws, his senses, agility, and balance, but you don't mention anything about strength or superhealing- the first which was implied by his choice of using force to dispatch with the centaur, and the second that you stated outright at the end of the mission. I see no real drawbacks explained on his page- beyond that he can't drink blood for whatever reason because that makes him sleep. This is something that is so incredibly unlikely to happen during a mission- there's no suggestion that he's fighting a bloodlust in the mission, or that he needs to drink on a regular basis- that it's a free power.

I can't comment much on the Carver's sueishness because I have little understanding of the Dresden Files- only read the first book- but this description here doesn't bode well for her:

'The Carver now wore a tight black leather outfit that made her look like the heroine from a spy movie. Her hair was braided down her back, and she had a number of bulges in various places that suggested the secretion of various knives.'

You have her dress in a catsuit- and directly state it makes her look like a spy movie heroine- and threaten to dismember Fix the moment he sees her. If she didn't like the outfit, or felt self conscious in it enough to make her threaten others over how she looks in it, why would she wear it? There's no point to an outfit like that in the PPC unless it's outright required for a disguise within a mission. How would she get she get those various knives out, out of curiosity? Given how tight the outfit is, what is the practicality in concealing weapons under it?

...Beyond that, there's also the disturbing issue of using 'secretion'. Secretion is very rarely used to mean things were hidden away. The more common use and meaning of the word refers to discharge, excretion. I don't think you mean to suggest she's excreting knives out from her skin or other organs.

On that topic, you charged and mocked the writing for a few things that are common and acceptable phrases, like "felt a blush creep up his neck". This is a valid use.

Beyond that, they came off as being viciously unfriendly towards each other, and the mission's tone was more overtly hostile than humorous. These agents seem incapable of an affectionate laugh either at their own foibles or at each other's- vicious comments, mocking, and threats don't count.

Your agents come off as being supremely overpowered, and have a great deal of attributes that cements them as Sues.

I'll be asking other PGs for their own thoughts on all this, because I don't feel comfortable saying anything more than asking you to take a break with writing more PPC works at the moment.

Wow, that's some pretty bad slash all right. Firenze... *shudder* I mean, crack pairings can be fun; but the way they wrote this one was just... euuugh. Pass the freaking brain bleach.

BTW, I disagree with you on Hermione's reaction to Firenze/Harry. She's Muggle-born and grew up without the usual Wizarding-world prejudices, and she's notoriously accepting of non-humans--the episode with the house-elves displays that nicely. So she probably wouldn't freak out at Firenze being a centaur. She'd totally freak out at Harry going to the Forbidden Forest, though--initially because it's against the rules; thereafter because it's dangerous and there wasn't a good reason to go there. And she'd freak if Harry were currently in a relationship and thus cheating on whoever it was. Ginny, at this age, I guess.

What annoyed me about the whole thing, ironically, was the total astronomy fail. Stars don't "align". They're too far away for us to see them moving. And those are not the names of stars, either--those aren't constellation names, and the Roman numerals after the names would mean that in the case of the XXIV, that that's the twenty-fourth brightest star in that constellation. That's probably not even bright enough to see without a telescope. If we're referring to planets here (in the sense of "wandering stars" and "the stars align"), that's still a fail. Wizards use the same planet names that the Muggle world does.

I'll admit I'm a bit of an astronomy buff, but really, the author could've googled it. There are star charts there for the asking, and as easy to read as a map of your hometown, too.

That thing really needed to be killed.

That was one bad 'fic... I'm glad you killed it. Nice mission.

*happy dance*

Loot (all up for grabs)

One (1) delicate hand
One (1) creeping blush
Two (2) mini-Aragogs (Harry potter and Quibler)

Recruits:
Five (5) centaur children, as of now unborn.

Hi there! Here, have a bumper sticker: "Got SPaG?".

Well met, rookie! Please enjoy this genuine Scottish claymore as a welcoming gift.

Hai there! Welcome to the madhouse!

Here, have a slightly sentient lightbulb. Don't ask how it became sentient, I'm saving that story for the trial. Enjoy! ^_^

Hi, have some fudge!

Well, we have some requirments:
You can only join if you want to join. Do you want to join? Good! You're now a member of the PPC!

Have a baseball cap with!

...Kidding, we don't eat people here.

>.>

<.>
...have a bag of pebbles and a Random Shiny Object! They're fun. :D

Welcome to the PPC!

Welcome to the board! Here, have some chocolate and enjoy your stay!

Welcome to the Board! Here's your two cents[1].

[1] Offer void off-Earth.

Welcome to the PPC posting board! (BTW, the title parodies a common typo) Here is a genuine, authentic, fake, cheap, and plastic bag full of jewlery. Oh, and here's a coffee.

I hope you will like it here.

Have a cookie and deposit your sanity in the bucket over there.

BTW, what are your main fandoms?

Just hang around and be awesome! That's what we do here :)

And as a welcome present, have some edible ball bearings - Earth is the only planet that's got them, you know!

Greetings, new friend! Have an antidote!

We don't "recruit" people in the sense your wording implies, but we still love new guys that sit around and chat with us! :D

Here, have some Berio for the road: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2nk52Iaouw

Right, should have read the top first. Ignore the above.

I added it to the unclaimed list yesterday, but of course it should also go here. Anyway, here goes:

"Bella goes to Middle Earth"
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6008558/1/Bella_goes_to_Middle_Earth
Summary: Bella gets sent to her rightful home Middle Earth where she is an elf. The Cullen's soon follow to help her. Set after Edward leaves her in new moon. Read as they join the fellowship and save the world. Bella falls for Legolas her true mate. Mature.

My comment: Exactly what it says on the label. Bring bleeprin for when Elrond says his immortal line: "17 companions… So be it!"

I'll take #3 if nobody else wants it. I mean... what?

First off, OOH BACKSTORY! Seriously though, this mission does a very good job of fleshing out Orken's character. It gives him a greater sense of depth, which is something that is always good to shoot for. Kudos to you for that!

That being said, the mission as a whole feels a bit scattershot regarding the overall tone. Jeannine's descent into maddness initially seems like it's going to be played somewhat dramatically. However, this preconception is almost immediately discarded with a kinda goofy crossover and a very goofy breakdown. Then, at the very end of the mission, we return to the present day and back to everything geared towards drama.

Sometimes drastic tonal switches like the ones in this mission work very well. Dark comedy, dramedy, whatever you what to call it: it's a legitmate genre. However, I personally don't think that it worked in this case. Jeannine ranting about historical politicians and coffee rain made it very difficult for me to take the story seriously. Had her breakdown been a little more darker, I probably would have enjoyed this mission a great deal more than I did.

Still, you did some nice character-building here, and there seems to be some interesting strain building between your agents. I'm looking forward to your next mission.

Yeah, that sure was different then usual. Don't see someone going mad (well, long-term anyway) very often. I can sorta sympathize with Orken, and agree with him. But, he probably should have found something better then Luxury for that, of course, Orken probably isn't used to those emotions (Well, genocide toilets aside) so, he still gets a hug.

*Hugs Orken* ^_^

Can;t wait to see more of this unfold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq9U8oL7D04

Sorry, it just kinda felt like it called for it. Poor Orken indeed... :(

And yeah, that fic was incredibly trippy. The word mishaps were all absolutely wonderful, and I had a great time with it. Please do keep up the good work!

I imagine that this is how the world looks like when you take drugs. Which drugs? I don't know, but I wouldn't recommend them.

Also, poor Orken. The new ending made him so perfectly aww-inducing. *hugs Orken* Ha! I did it.

I was kind of excited by the prospect, actually. But then I read it, and it was more of a dull Legolas/Aragorn romance than anything to do with animals. Too bad.

That's an... odd choice of canons. Huh.

Checked in, hoping to see 44, maybe 45 results in now, and found 681. Everything from 11/18/2011 8:26:19 (US Central time) on appears to be spam (it's all the same answers), so I'll be removing that data. If you're an actual non-spamming Boarder who answered the poll since that time, please do so again.

~Neshomeh

If you haven't put in a response yet, now's a great time. {= D

Also, FYI, I will wait until it's been at least 24 hours since the last response to close the poll.

~Neshomeh

Yeah, wasn't that hard a thing to do. Hopefully this resolves the issue.

So yeah, you have my opinion here. =D

I don't know, the font's a bit... dunno. I kept reading the exclamation marks as questionmarks.

But yeah, you have my opinion.

Every time I try to answer the Author Pages, question, i tells me I need to fill it in, when I [i]have[/i].

I never introduced myself and just responded to the spambot...

Welcome, new person! May your days here be fruitful as well as full of other nutritiousness foods. If your looking for something that makes me unique among all these other awesome folks, remember that I'm the one with the slightly silly name.

1) Who do I go to for "permission"
2) Any chapters you suggest I read before writing my own
3) Any rules or other random information I should know about PPC
It would be very helpful if someone could answer any of these questions for me, or at least show me where I can find this information.
And, in advance, thank you.

Here's your free crate of Bleepka so you don't go *too* insane around here.

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, and please enjoy your stay!

Hi, have some fudge!

*pokes the newbie* Squee!

Ahem ...

Welcome! Have a fruit basket and a pair of ice skates. So, how did you find us?

Welcome to the Board! It's always nice to have new people arriving. Have a bag of pebbles and a Random Shiny Object.

What fandoms are your favourites?

Greetings, new friend! Have a Good Book. Try to keep it away from the Bad Book.

I'm sorry your first PPC message had to be from a spambot.

But welcome! We love new people here! Have an Official Hipster Scarf as a welcome present - oh, you probably haven't heard of it. ;)

due to RL getting in the way, but it (and Diablo III for that matter) are definitely on my to-buy list... Problem is I'm unlikely to get any real free time to play it for weeks, if not till next year.

Elcalion, busy

... with this being national novelling month and all, but a friend of mine has been waxing poetically about it, so I'm really looking forward to it.

Oh, and I looked at Jim Cummings' IMDB page and he is in the game playing 'Additional voices'. Um, thanks IMDB, that was ... vague. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0191906/

But when I get it, I promise I am going to be the most nasty-looking, pug-ugly customer I can make in that there character creator.

I've been playing Dragon Age:Origins for a while, and I am looking at tons of mods and downloads... and one of the common mods are people making 'beautiful' faces in the dev tools and then offering them for download. Frankly, although I see their point (the in-game sliders and options look a little odd sometimes...) most of them look very homogeneous to me.

The next game I play with a customizable hero, and Skyrim is a very likely option, I am going to play the most hideous ultimate hero you ever did see.

And ye gods does that fit as a name. Through a no-doubt amusing series of misadventures I wound up trying to cross the enormous mountain towards the Eastern edge of the map. With great difficulty and enormous luck, I managed to scale all the way to the top of that ridge, overlooking the wastes on the other side, sure that I could finally get through the pass to my destination... only to be greeted by "You cannot go this way." If I could curse in Dragon, I would.

I'm playing a Khajiit-- I almost always do, even wrote a brief ficlet about it set in Oblivion/Shivering Isles. This time, I'm even playing a woman Khajiit! Crazy, I know. Aside from various benefits (claws! night-eye! fuzzy ears!), I generally play these games with a narrative running in the back of my mind the whole time, and it occurred to me that the sort of Khajiit that journeys into Skyrim from the desert would be a very interesting character indeed!

I mean, you're going from a desert to a harsh, unforgiving wilderness-- a traveler without any permanent home, drawn by a destiny unknown. But not your typical Strong, Handsome, Muscular Hero, no. A slight, wiry Khajiit, leopard-spotted and grinning, dwarfed by the towering Nords whose homes she defends (or breaks into, depending). A shadowy, unnoteworthy furred shadow, slipping through the bleak rocks and peaks amidst howling winds and blinding snow, with the Northern Lights shining above. You can almost hear the note of surprise in the smith's voice as you agree to make the dangerous journey, and the grudging respect in various Jarls' tones as you accept, and mount, their challenges. The sneering of the bandits ("Your hide will make a fine rug, cat!"), which dies on their lips as a flank and feint takes the ground out from under their feet. The unquestioning calm of the masters, so unexpected in such a hard place. The surprising beauty of the mountain streams, and wild joy of leaping up waterfalls like the ancestral sabre-cats that delight in ambush.

...I'm probably having way too much fun with that inner narrative.

I don't play Skyrim, but this is pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyCFuP3rM2w&amp;feature=watch_response

This guy also did a cover of the Shire theme from LOTR..

It's here.

7) the term ‘Internet site dedicated to infringing activities’ means an Internet site that--
(A) has no significant use other than engaging in, enabling, or facilitating the--
(i) reproduction, distribution, or public performance of copyrighted works, in complete or substantially complete [emphasis mine] form, in a manner that constitutes copyright infringement under section 501 of title 17, United States Code;
(ii) violation of section 1201 of title 17, United States Code; [Which is all about DRM circumvention, see here] or
(iii) sale, distribution, or promotion of goods, services, or materials bearing a counterfeit mark, as that term is defined in section 34(d) of the Lanham Act; or
(B) is designed, operated, or marketed by its operator or persons operating in concert with the operator, and facts or circumstances suggest is used, primarily as a means for engaging in, enabling, or facilitating the activities described under clauses (i), (ii), or (iii) of subparagraph (A);

It later goes on to cover 'Internet Sites Engaged in [rather than 'dedicated to'] Infringing Activities'... but only with the immediate addition of 'That Endanger the Public Health'.

Hmm.

hS

No way. It violates too much Constitution.

Don't we have a Constitution that's supposed to prevent these sorts of things?

The bill is so poorly written that it would allow any copyright owner to shut down a legitimate retail website, such as Amazon or Best Buy, by alleging that one product being sold on the site could “enable or facilitate” an infringement. It could even allow any content owner to block access to the Patent Office website if it receives and posts a patent application for a product that is believed to use content without permission.

This'll be killed pretty much immediately. There is no way this thing can pass.

Hope I don't get any emails from Change.org that I don't need.

This is *ridiculous*. For heaven's sake, as long as there is internet people will infringe copyright. It's not exactly stoppable. Shutting down sites will NOT help.

Especially if it's a "might".

And, I sent a letter through another website that's in on the action of telling these guys not to sign it. Seriously, this bill...

The scary thing is, it's picked up a lot of support as a "bipartisan" bill. Pfft, really, I would buy that if you didn't so heavily skew the hearings towards one side, Congress.

Well, here's hoping this bill doesn't go through. Vague wording is never a good thing.

This bill is a Very Bad Thing. Taking media law class, I've learned that America is supposed to work on the assumption that there is a free market of ideas: anybody can come in and say whatever they want. The government isn't supposed to say who can come in, stop people at the door, or stand in front of certain sources of information.

In this bill's quest to hinder a portion of the internet, it threatens to stand in front of the whole internet and prevent access... and even mess up the way the internet itself works.

Not to mention it's horribly vague and just... ahaugh. The idea that streaming a video game can become a felony... So many things use streaming nowadays- even music labels!

Needless to say, I've signed a zillion things, sent letters to all of my representatives, sent letters to the representatives of the state I'm currently in, and have my eyes peeled.

This bill is obviously draconion and overly broad in its approach. I personally do not approve of internet piracy, but a more measured approach is required to address the problem's caused by it. We need a surgical scalpel as opposed to this bill's chainsaw, one might say.

Anyway, down with this bill.

http://www.mozilla.org/sopa/?WT.mc_ID=sopa-snippet

Phobos and I sent a message through them last night. We meant to post, but other stuff came up, so I'm glad you got the ball rolling. {= ) Can't hurt to do 'em both, right?

~Neshomeh

I signed it 'cause it kept popping up on "ThatGuyWitheGlasses.com", and an't nothin' keeping me from watching the Nostalgia Critic and company!

Boy and I thought Youtube was bad... I really freakin' hate big businesses sometimes.

Seriously?
Wow, and I thought our government was bad enough already. This is being passed in blatant disregard for our constitutuinal rights.
Is there an age limit for signing this petition?

Unfortunately, I'm not an american citizen.

Also... intellectual property's such a ting. Copyright's a fuzzy thing anyways. And who tells me that they're not infringing anything.

... and I'm not even an American citizen! As if mandatory, government-regulated Internet filters are bad enough, now the US DoJ is pushing for this?

And this seems to be based on the assumption that ANY website MIGHT contain a POSSIBLE infringement? THEN the whole kit'n'kaboodle gets taken down?

*sigh* I truely fail to see the logic in all of this. IF it goes through, we might be next on the chopping block, for all I know.

Hello new guy. Have a cookie!

Have a handy link. Please do not drown in the wiki.

Another newbie! Welcome!
Have a Kit-Kat bar. But, don't spend it all in one place.

Hi, have some fudge!

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay! So, what fandoms are you into?

Greetings, new friend! Have a venomous arthropod!

Have a sock monkey and some chopsticks as a welcome gift!
We can never get to many rippers of bad pairings. What are your fandoms?

And have a cookie. It's made of awesome.

You have correctly identified yourself! Have this cookie!

Welcome to the board. I already talked to you in the IRC.

Not fun, Fun. I don't think there's a specific way deletions are handled aside from the world ceasing to exist. You can have the world fall apart slowly. You can have a sudden cut-off... oh the possibilities.

It's really flexible. Check the wiki article.

Second question: You can skip things, especially if nothing important happens or you don't get any new charges in that portion of the fic.

…I needed that. Nothing cheers up a stressful day quite like Mohawk-Dibbun Carrot Jockeys.

In fact, I don't think anything concerning anything works quite like Mohawk-Dibbun Carrot Jockeys.

(That's fun to say. Mohawk-Dibbun Carrot Jockeys.)

Would it be imposing on you to ask if this could appear in OFUR at some point? Because the mental image of Dibbuns riding carrots is too cute for words.

And Cakewrecks is getting fan creations now... sometimes I really love the internet.

But eventually I got it. Cake Wrecks is awesome. And yeah, the babies are very disturbing.

A Redwall/Cake Wrecks crossover :) .

I don't get it, but D'aaaawwww anyway.

And it was a seriously nebulous and rime-wended day, so it was seriously needed. Makes me want to reread Mossflower!

There is always room for mania, zany-ah, brainy-a entertainia here!

In this case, have a hat; hand-knit from the finest spun pelts of Cute Animal Friends, it is sure to keep your ears toasty warm in the coldest and darkest of badfic.

That is if they aren't burning. Then I suppose it can smother your burning ears in the coldest and darkest of badfic.

Ugh. Sorry about the spambots.

But anyway, welcome to the PPC! As a welcome present, have some edible ball bearings - Earth is the only planet that's got them, you know!

Welcome th the PPC! Please drop your sanity in the bin by the door.

Please read this, especially the bit regarding giving warning for NSFW content and otherwise posting things with explicit content. In case you are wondering, Mickey anally violating his pet dog counts as NSFW, and in the manner presented, it is most certainly explicit.

Don't do that again, seriously.

Greetings, new friend! Have a VCR that displays the correct time!

Well met, rookie! Please enjoy this jar of Awesome Sauce (guaranteed to contain fresh squeezed Awesome, not from concentrate) as a welcoming gift.

Hi, welcome to the PPC. :D

Please start with reading this and everything it links to if you have not already.

Also, please leave the tropes on TV Tropes, because contrary to what HerrWozzeck said, we're not actually especially fond of TVTropes, Tropers, or tropes.

And feel free to hop into the IRC channel, there's a link up top of the board. :)

We love new people, and especially Tropers! :D

Here, have some Luigi Dallapiccola for the road: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lJziJbu97w

Completely forgot to list them in my introduction post!

As an avid gamer, I'm very familiar with the Zelda, Metroid, Portal, and Starcraft 'verses. I am also a fan of anything Orwell wrote as well as Redwall and Discworld (though it's been ages since I last read the books, so I'm slightly rusty).

Also, it seems I've scattered (nm)(nm)s all over. *Scuttles around, scooping them up*

Welcome! Take this slightly defective portal gun. I would not suggest going through any portals it may make.

Here, have some line noise and a bottle of Bleepka.

Greetings, new friend! Have a plastic bag. Just remember, it is NOT a jellyfish. Do NOT eat the plastic bag, Mr. Turtle.

Welcome to the Board! Here have some chocolate and enjoy your stay!

... although I don't have an account and don't edit stuff, so I guess that makes me a demitroper. Being in the similar situation of having nebulous amounts of time, proficiency in the long-lost art of lurking, and general admiration for everything PPC does, it seems only natural that I give you a long-distance high five and welcome!

*gives SeaTurtle a PPC bumper sticker*

Welcome aboard!

(And our apologies for the troll.)

Hello, Turtle-of-the-Sea!

Have a Holy Hand Grenade (Do not use near rabbits. Or do, but only evil ones.)

Here, have a sentient shield. No, I don't know how it came to be that way.

Hi, have some fudge!

http://manxandshadow.webs.com/

I toyed around with that program too - never managed to finish a game, though. Also because I have no longer time for that and my new PC can't run it.

*tilts head* I can't help thinking that the Daisy in those clothes looks like the first Doctor.

Thank you! Especially for the diagrams of the portable console and the not-so-portable variety. I've always struggled to picture them.

Wow. Stuff. Lots of it.

Some of it seems to be from that "Lost in the Multiverse" game thing. Did you make that? Or someone else?

As it stands now, it's pretty condescending, as July said. Also, I'm negotiating some edits on the C*l*br**n page with Ellipis. Care to weigh in on the disscussion?

I suck at giving feedback, but I agree that, the more people voice their opinion about this, the better, so here I finally go.
All of the below is my subjective opinion. I do not claim to speak for anyone but myself or to be in anyway "right".
Also, if any of the below comes of as snooty, arrogant, insulting or anything else, it was not my intent and I was not aware of it. It is only meant to be helpful suggestions. (Giving feedback makes me paranoid.)

This article draft is really good and I am very happy with the content. My favourite addition is the division between primary and secondary traits. It just cleared up a lot of things for me, that I had been dimly aware of, but unable to put into words.

Hopefully constructive criticism:
In terms of flow, I think it would be better if 'Related terms' and 'Controversy' got pushed back to after 'Mary Sue as a Character'. I agree with Sedri (disclaimer: at least I think I agree with her; she might have meant something very different) that the article should not start out with what-Sues-are-not (the Controversy) and related-to-but-not-quite-Sue (Related terms).
Also, most pages on wikipedia that has one or both of these two categories has them after the main definition, so having them at the top, looks slightly odd to me.

I also agree with Sedri (see disclaimer) that the tone is on the defensive side. I think rearranging the content might do a lot to clear that up.

The only specific example of defensive wording I have is the opening. "This article discusses the term Mary Sue as used by the PPC. Other people may use other definitions, but we've worked hard on ours, so we think we'll keep it. We'll endeavor to explain what it is and why here."
I know that most of it is from the old page, but it still rubs me the wrong way.
"discussing the term" should IMO be saved for the talk-page and the board (like now); the wiki-article should be strictly for the current agreed-upon definition.

I would like the opening to be simpler and more assertive, along the lines of: "This is the definition of the term Mary Sue, as it is understodd and used by the majority of the PPC", leaving out the bit about how other people might have different definitions, and also the bit about endeavoring to explaing, since I actually think the article does a really good job at explaining it.

So, like I said, I really think this is a good article-draft and those two suggestions are the only things I would like to see changed. Thumbs up!

...a note about how Sue traits don't necessarily make a character automatically a Sue.

I was talking about this in the chat and mentioned Sherlock Holmes as an example: He's superintelligent and extremely perceptive, but also a flawed human being. If the exact same character with the exact same traits were written badly, he would be a Stu--the "brooding, emotionally cold loner who nevertheless solves cases with almost psychic precision and wins the respect of all of London", and Watson would have been turned into a zombie whose entire purpose was to praise Holmes, rather than a fully real character.

But Holmes isn't a Stu, because he's well-written.

The Sue/Stu traits don't really make the Sue/Stu; it's how they're handled, how the writing is done.

I feel like the definition could be a little more direct. The "fictional character" part is necessary right up front, but I think we should move where Mary Sue is found to the end of the first paragraph.

Second, I think it's important to note the role that wish-fulfillment plays in creating the Mary Sue. I mean, that's the main reason that any Mary Sue exists.

Third, I also think we need to say that Mary Sue lacks significant character flaws while usually sporting out-of-proportion abilities.

I would write it this way:

A Mary Sue is a fictional character that achieves its goals in the story with minimal effort, out of proportion to what the audience would expect given the setting(s), culture(s), and other inhabitants of that universe. In order to accomplish this, a Mary Sue will have character traits heavily skewed in favor of outstanding abilities vs. significant flaws. The primary reason for Mary Sue's existence is wish-fulfillment for the Mary Sue author. This character type is mostly associated with fanfiction, though it can be found in original fiction as well.

Overall? Very good. You've summed up all the major points neatly and efficiently, leaving little or no room for error. Aster has several good points, though, and I'll add that you might want to make some references to Sues in non-fantasy worlds.

What strikes me most is how very legal it all sounds. Very defensive. The tone is markedly different from the rest of the wiki - which is understandable, but also makes it more obvious that you/we are trying to be very careful here. And it is obvious. The first thousand words are more about what a Sue is not than what a Sue is, and the original point of having this article is to define the term "Mary Sue", not defend said definition.

I think you need to do a bit of rearranging; maybe try making a more thorough general definition first and then doing the "but not THAT" bits - so, the "Mary Sue as a Character" section should, I think, start it off. After a brief introduction, yes.

The "Why Hate Mary Sue" section is also extremely defensive. I understand why, certainly, but can't it be toned down? Can you start with the positives (i.e. the third paragraph) rather than the negatives and defensiveness?


Also, a few very technical things:

* I don't know if we have a standard style about such things, but as the following words are being singled out as words, I think they should be in quotation marks:
also referred to as Sues for short
eschewed the term Mary Sue

* Technical tweak with this line: "Other people admired it, and so, being generous, they invited the others" - your referential function for "they" is ambiguous, and the first impression is that it IS the "other people" who did the inviting. Maybe "and so, because this someone is so generous, they invited these others" ?


Is that helpful?

the only thing I find left unmentioned is that Sues not only often warp the canon universe, but display a vital lack of understanding for the real world as well. It doesn't take any warping of Arda for a Mary Sue to make use of badly-misunderstood 'Stockholm Syndrome,' nor does it take any canon disruption for a character to claim she can backflip off a giant ogre simply because she knows 'karate.' Or to somehow gallop across Middle Earth in the space of two hours on an otherwise normal horse.

Another thing to add is that for whatever reason, many Sues tend to become (probably unintentionally) creepy and inhuman. So many of them become utterly obsessive or disturbing in their romance, or trivializing of violence to the point of being creepy walking bloodbaths that don't realize they're career mass murderers, or even unnervingly neglectful to the world outside themselves... such as being willing to doom everybody else just so they can get a day in the limelight.

Neither of these are primary Sue traits but they certainly are things I see a lot of PPCers criticize Sues for displaying. Your call on if they're important to add or not, though. Your writing is more than suitable as it is. Really, it's a vast improvement.

I was thinking, once this is out of the sandbox, taking a crack at beginning to re-do the 'FAQ: For Other People' that was in dispute myself.

Other than that, seems good. I'm a bit baffled by the switch in definition from the old page, though.

Hope you don't mind a newbie's opinion on this...
I think that this is a very good improvement over the old Mary-Sue page. The term is well explained and the "controversy" sub-section is a welcome addition. The "primary" and "secondary traits" sub-sections give good examples to what constitutes a Sue. I also feel that it's important that we specify that we're not mocking the authors: we're not trying to offend anybody here.

I've heard you can grow the most amazing sunflowers there - but anyway, welcome! I don't have a tumblr account or anything, can you recommend it? I tend to start and abandon things which is a terrible habit of mine, but it'd be nice to have a place to connect with people, maybe. Well met and warm wishes!

Hello. Pleasure to meet you. Have a boar tusk, not to be confused with a mammoth tusk. Those don't squeal at you.

Please enjoy your stay, and remember to leave your sanity in bin marked accordingly.

Welcome aBoard! Nice to meet you, I'm Rosie! Here, have a Pidgin! *Hands you a leathery, black-and-gray bird* They work as rudimentary backup translators, messengers, and spawns of Satan. I brought a few back from a mission a while ago, and they've taken up residence in my RC. In fact, here, have a few! *hands you a crate of Pidgins*

Anyway, don't forget to drop your sanity in the conveniently placed bin by the door (You won't need it here), read Da Rules, the Original Series, and a few Spinnoffs to get a feel for us! Also, pop into the chatroom every once in a while! We like Newbs in there!

So! Who is(are) your favourite Doctor(s) and Companion(s)?

Well met, rookie! Please enjoy this crate of wand polish as a welcoming gift.

Since you've already come across the wiki, just read the stuff from the top clickable bar link, 'Guide to the PPC'. ;) That'll tell you all you need to know as to how to join. (No actual trials and tribulations!)

Anyhow, welcome, hope you stick around.

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay! Also, nice taste in fandoms. ^^

I've never encountered someone who found us by stumbling across the wiki before! That's kinda cool. Enjoy your stay, and don't pet the walrus.

*pokes the newbie* Ohh, shiny!

Ahem ...

Welcome to the PPC! Have a brick and a gin and tonic (can be exchanged for a non-alchoholic beverage if you don't drink).

Seems there's already a "Brooklyn" on the wiki, so henceforth I shall be known as Brooklyntaff. :D

Very handy things, they are.

Welcome to the Board, HATI.

Welcome, HATI! Your message not only reached us here, but is actually floating through the universe at large and has introduced several far-off corners of the universe to beautiful chamber music! Or possibly that was the golden record, but both were quite nice. Hopefully you'll stay here for awhile and we can chat about nothing in particular - I find that actually getting where one should be takes the fun outta life! :P

Greetings, new friend! Have a neuralyzer! I'll show you how it works. You set the length of time you want forgotten, aim at the eyes, and press this button. Then



Greetings, new friend! Have a neuralyzer! I'll show you how it works. You set the length of time you want forgotten, aim at the eyes, and press this button . . .

Well met, rookie! Please enjoy this special Scrabble set (made out of the finest imaginary materials) as a welcoming gift.

Welcome to the Board! Here, have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay!

I'm returning to sentience after a long bout of cryogenic stasis. So, count that as you will.

Here, take this chrome spork. And some scrapings from the fluid that spilled out of my stasis tank.

The way things have been going in RL lately, I don't know if I qualify as sentient :) . But have some fudge anyway!

Man, I hope this gets seen...

Another two questions for you folks:

Firstly, do Spies have SEP fields? When reading one of Architeuthis' reports, it is implied that Assassins are completely invisible to canon characters so long as they don't do something dramatic (because of their SEP field, I presume) while Spies need to be a lot more careful with disguises. I'd like to play with the idea of a Spy always having to fiddle with a DORKS to avoid detection due to a weak/nonexistent SEP field. Can I do that?

Secondly, what constitutes a badfic ripe for sporking? I can identify 'Sues, bad SPaG and OOCness from several kilometers away, but what separates a simply mediocre fic from something PPCable? Unintentional humour? Horrendous characterization? Something that is just so wrong it can't be ignored? I've got my eyes on a potential Zelda badfic but I can't determine if it's something that deserves attention or not...

1) Intelligence and how things should be done with reports/missions for that can be found here. Please note, that it is slightly different from the format found with Archy's spinoff, but if you want to do either way, you're welcome to do so once you have permission. Aster's mission is in no way representative of how Intelligence missions should done because you're not there to kill or do anything, just to observe, decide if badfic or not, and then report back.

Think of it basically as an analysis sort of thing.


2) Alice can talk because she started off talking. Normal animals from our world do not talk. Talking Animals are from those canons that have them, and do not represent the average animal.

3) Weapons for assassination should be consistent with the canon, and in cases where that is impossible or difficult, it should be ensured that nothing uncanonical is left behind. The case with Littlefoot X Cera is that weapons are not canonical at all in that canon, and dinosaurs are quite large and difficult to kill with yon average pointy sharp metal stick.

Additionally, more to others as a reminder, if you have any questions to ask, ask them here instead of starting a new thread if this is still nearer the top. We'll see it still, promise.

DON'T COPY Agent Aster. Agent Aster set out to do intelligence, but she actually failed at it, which many people remarked on in the comments. This was actually kind of intentional, but I fudged the context a little and cut a bit too much, so it looks like it ended on a happy ending. My bad-- everybody's improving all the time. >n>

In her 'next' mission (the next one I'm writing actually happens BEFORE the Ferelden mission) she actually is still in trouble because she screwed up.

Really, I would suggest making up your own way of doing it so long as it doesn't step over what's already been established. The only hard and fast rules in PPC spin offs mostly have to do with 'don't make any facts that cause somebody else's spin-off to be wrong.' Such as, you can't make up canon that makes other people's approaches suddenly be the 'wrong' way to do it. Basically, just respect others and you should be fine.

Many creatures in HQ are weird or different from World One critters. I'm not sure about Alice, but she was a badfic character, and her depiction seemed to be intelligent, I think. I think it might be a case of 'It works because it does.' Really, there's no rules as long as it doesn't eclipse the story.

Weapons preferably SHOULD be along the lines of the canon an agent brings them into, because leaving them behind in case of emergency should be safe. It's also harder to blend in with non-canon weaponry. However, if non-canon weaponry is concealable or if other circumstances exist, I suppose you could sneak them in if nobody noticed. Once again, no hard or fast rules. Just common-sense ones. How weird would agents disguised as orcs carrying around lightsabers be?