Apr 2010 Archive, part b

Um, I really hate to point this out, but you said the mission was going to be in 2006 when I handed over my two. They weren't there in 2005. Sorry, but I realised the timeline doesn't mesh.

If you want to change it, I think it's okay to use the names of non-"player character" agents from the OS or other early missions - I think Joe Bob and Zaneth from Architeuthis' stuff could be useable, for example.

Welcome to the PPC! Here's a sabre from the Raven Armory and a bottle of bleeprin. Beware of the legendary bad fanfics, beware!

Have a big stick. Try wiggling it. I stole it from a Magic!Sue, so it has to do something interesting.

Have a mutated strawberry, even if it grows legs and wanders off it should still taste the same. Or you could use it as a paperweight, but it might be a bit too ambulatory.

Lots of people come here through Tv Tropes. I know I did.

You should try a MST or two. They can be really fun. Hope to see you around.

*poke*

I don't know what you've already read, of course, but there are a few things you should definitely make time for. First, there is the Original PPC Series by Jay and Acacia--but you HAVE read that, I see. {= )

Second, we require that everyone read and abide by the Board Constitution, because it's nicer that way.

After that, there are several helpful documents on the Wiki designed to help acquaint newcomers with us and our habits and behaviors and general weirdness. Sedri's Guide to the PPC is particularly informative, especially when combined with the FAQ for Newbies and the Mission Writing Guide. If you do want to write PPC missions, you should also see the article about how to get Official Permission.

And that's probably quite enough to start with. {= ) Welcome! Have a bumper-sticker! *sticks one on you* ^__^

~Neshomeh

*eyes your username* We may have some conflict. Regardless, have an enormous guilt-free chocolate cake.

Welcome to the Board! Please deposit your sanity in the provided receptacle. *indicates bucket marked "Warg Fodder"* You shan't need it here. Also, here's a thingy stuck to a wotchamacallit with stuff.

Hello and welcome to the PPC Posting Board! Have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay!

Hi! I'm new here too. And, as it seems to be customary to give away a lot of random thhings, have a piece of fool's gold and some cheesebread.

Glad to see that the reports of this board welcoming rookies were not exaggerated! Looks like I'm going to need a bigger swag bag.

In response to BattleHamster I'd say that I'm most into Firefly, Doctor Who, Discworld, and Avatar (the one with the airbender, not the one with the blue elves). I'm bit like a magpie when it comes to other fandoms; if something shiny catches my eye I'll probably end up taking some interest in it.

Welcome to the PPC! TVTropes and the wiki have definitely been good publicity.

As a welcome gift, I offer to thee...a coxcomb! It's a sort of silly hat with Shakespearean lineage.

Here's a venomous arthropod, though you may...or may not...need gloves for handling it.

Welcome! Are there any particular fandoms you're into?

Fair winds!

Your story is similar to mine--I found a link (with one of Neshomeh's nice pictures) on the side of the wiki I was looking at, and, clicking it, found myself here. If you have any sanity, though, enjoy it while you can. It-hypothetically-won't last much longer. Also, someone will be along soon with several useful links. Here's a bladed yo-yo to play with while you wait (feel free to keep it afterward, as well).

The only things you need Permission for are 1) missions, or 2) things that would noticeably alter the PPC. As long as you're not doing those things, you're free to write whatever you like. {= )

As for the questions:

1. I'd personally prefer it if you adopted him permanently, but since Jay and Acacia did say he was free to use, I don't think there's anything stopping anyone who wants to borrow him (though it is polite to ask the Board first). If that is what you decide to do, just make sure you address what happened to Agent Robyn, who he got partnered with.

However, that said, I agree with the people who are confused that you don't want to make your own character. If you don't have a team ready yet, why not just wait until you do? Heck, I hung around for almost four years before Ilraen came along and I partnered him with Nume. {= P I'm an extreme case, but still. There's no reason to rush into writing missions if you're not satisfied with your team.

2. DoSAT tends to appropriate canon technology and modify it for PPC use rather than make stuff up out of whole cloth. The CADs, portal generators, and disguise generators are a few exceptions. Also, as someone else said, what's wrong with a regular leash?

3. No one's ever really bothered about this before, as I recall. I am positive that HQ does not do any translation of its own accord, though. I am also positive that every agent is equipped with a Universal Translator as a matter of course, just like they're equipped with a flash patch, a CAD, and a remote activator; and it would have to translate written words as well as spoken. The agents couldn't do their job without it.

However, as others have pointed out, the Rule of Funny trumps just about everything. If you need the UT to stop working for a joke, then it will.

As for what it looks like... well, no one's ever bothered about it before. I figure it would have to be something very small, not easily noticed. Maybe it's even built into the flash patch. They've already got a microchip and SEP field generator in there; no reason for the UT not to be part of the same device. ... Of course, in that case it wouldn't work if the agent wasn't wearing the flash patch.

Then again, there is more than one kind of Universal Translator in the multiverse. The most obvious is the Star Trek device by the same name. But then, Douglas Adams gave us the Babelfish; Farscape offers translator microbes; some species have the ability to learn languages very quickly and/or communicate on a different level entirely and don't need one at all; and then there're all the various types of magical translation spells and/or artifacts you could wish for. I wouldn't be surprised if the PPC makes use of all the options available.

~Neshomeh

1. I once created an agent for the purpose of appearing in one scene only. I guess to each their own, but why don't you want to create an agent for just a few missions?
   
   2. As you've probably guessed already, the guidelines are: new technology should be funny, and it should not make the agents too powerful. The energy leash could be funny, if you took it into fandoms where it has no chance of actually working.

If I were you, I'd make up your own partner, but I may be a bit biased...I love having lots of characters. (I have seven active agents right now.) Having the pair be entirely your own, even if it's only for a few missions, gives you a lot more freedom. And you can make up an Agent who's already been in the PPC, if you want. Most of my Agents have been in the PPC a lot longer than I have...

New technology should be used sparingly. We have so many canons at our disposal and so many devices that have been created by past Agents--too much new stuff can be overdoing it. If an ordinary leash would do it, or you could find something that already exists in a continuum, that might be better.

I have a native French speaker, Agent Michel, who routinely speaks French while in HQ, and another agent who swears in multiple languages without their being translated. But it all goes by Rule of Funny. I don't think we ever came up with firm rules for it.

Well, first of all, you can practice your writing style any way you like - we're not the Writing Police. So don't worry about what you do for practice as long as it's not posted anywhere prior to your getting Permission, and as long as you take under consideration whatever suggestions you are given when you do ask.


1. I really don't think you need to fret so much about this; there's nothing wrong with creating an entirely new character for just a handful of missions - the only downside to it is that those of us reading your missions could get confused and you have less time to develop them as characters. You can make up any team you like, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I created Agent Iza as a partner for my Agent Sedri, but after four or five missions, it was clear that the two of them didn't have long-term funny dynamics, so I gave Iza away to Trojie and Pads, and will make up a new partner for Agent Sedri next time I write a mission. But if Trojie and Pads hadn't wanted Iza, I would have simply let her fall aside. There's no reason you can't do the same.

That said, if you're certain it's Agent Ranger you want, in a temporary basis... I suppose so. As he is a TOS character, it'd be polite to get opinions from the Board as a whole first.


2. There are no specific guidelines, but generally we don't create new technology unless there is a need. For example, I co-wrote a mission with Trojie once in which she rightfully pointed out that murder leaves far too much blood on the floor - so we came up with the idea of a Capillary Towel, which could effectively clean up the mess. It's been used a few times since.

Concerning your energy leash... I'd rather you didn't, particularly it sounds a bit too unusual and powerful, what with technology from multiple fandoms and all. What's the point of having it rather than, say, a normal lightsaber? Or a Ferengi energy whip? Those are canonical, there's no need to explain them, and they work just as well. Also, take another look at the bit about special weapons in the Mission Writing Guide; too much speshulness is a bad thing.


3. That's an interesting question - I'm not sure. Since HQ is a Word World, then UTs technology would work within it just as anything else (like lightsabers) would; the Real World rules certainly wouldn't get in the way. I imagine that agents who don't speak the dominant language (or who are of a species that can't) would carry translators around as a matter of habit. I doubt that it would be the building itself that translates - that place likes to make us late by playing maze, remember? It'd probably muddle up the translations just for fun.

Still - opinions, guys? Whatever we decide, we'll certainly have to add it to the FAQ:For Newbies...


Hope that helps, Goldenrod.

I know of one or two characters that were/will be recruited but that haven't been used yet. One of them is an unnamed Blood Elf Sniper Commander from the Warcraft Universe. He was recruited at the end of this mission. He has been in headquarters for a while and so may know what is going on. You should probably ask Farseer Lolotea before using him, though.

The other is an Orc Warrior from the Warcraft universe. His name was Rathkurr, but that will likely be changed when he gets reprogrammed rehabilitated by FicPsych. He is likely to end up in DMS as he is very fond of killing things with his axe. Since my agents rescue him, I have no problem with you using him.

As for question 3... the rule is, "If two things are possible, but one of them is funnier, then that is the one that will probably happen in HQ."

Regarding your first question, yes, it is possible to write an introductory piece for your agent/s as your Permission piece. I did it myself, and I know several other people have as well.

As for the others:

1. I don't recall seeing Ranger in anything since TOS, and I've read a good number of spinoffs, so I think you're safe to borrow him. There may be offers of other Agents you can use, too, but I'm pretty sure Ranger's a safe deal.

2. I think it would depend on what function you need the technology to perform. Why exactly do you need a retractable energy dog leash, for example? As a general rule, we tend not to allow things that would make things too easy or comfortable for the agents. Admittedly, technology's not my strong point; you might be better off taking that up with some of the oldbies, particularly Techno-Dann.

3. The universal translator issue is pretty much governed by the Rule of Funny. If there is an amusing reason for the translator not to work, then it won't work. Otherwise, communication is possible throughout HQ, as far as I'm aware. As with the technology query, though, you'd be better off getting a wider consensus rather than just going by one person's view of it.

Hope this was helpful.

*reads*
*posts reply demanding blood elf for use as partner*
*realizes that partner needs to have worked at DoI for a while, and therefore could possibly violate the timeline*
*posts reply demanding to know when this occurs*
*realizes that since permission has not yet been given, timeline does not matter*
*retracts previous reply message*
*realizes timeframe matters regardeless*
*retracts previous retraction*
*realizes that since permission has not been given, blood elf will currently be next to useless*
*retracts everything and denies it was ever written*
A REALLY LONG TIME LATER:
*finally gets around to wondering what a blood elf is/does*

Pretend I actually did all of the above, it'll save time.

I'd say give them the benefit of some doubt - if there's enough other charges to take the fic down, add it in, but don't make it the charge that's used to justify sporking the entire fic.

I like to read stories set in certain seasons--ones that could have happened in off-screen time of the certain seasons. Especially, when there are cast changes that come with various seasons.

But this sounds more like you are dealing with one that is just ignoring and re-writing everything after a certain season, like saying Kate is still alive in season 7 of NCIS?

If they don't specify AU there, then I'd charge them with getting the canon wrong, because they are getting current canon wrong without saying that they are setting it somewhere other than current.

If the author posts that they are aware of the contradiction and have chosen not to rewrite their story, then that's fine, and it wouldn't be a charge. If, however, the author says nothing, or says that they started writing the story after the revelation, then it can be a charge.

It would be nice to come to a Gathering. If there is a date available, maybe I can see what I can do.

I haven't been on the board for a few weeks, so I missed this when it was first posted, but I'm located near Boston.

I will probably be on the east coast this summer, so I just might be able to make it. Possibly.

-- Beetle, existing in lurkerdom

Boston's not that far from me at all, really.

If i can get a date for the meeting, there may be a possibility that i could make it to the meeting. However, no promises.

I might actually be able to make it to this one. 'Course, have to convince my father the scary internet people aren't going to axe murder me first.

That actually totally works for me. I'm going to school in Boston. Should be fun.

I do have an erratic work schedule, though, so avoiding Saturdays is good, and advance notice as far as possible is even better.

But yeah! I'm Hartford County, so Boston's not far at all, and I do relish another chance to wander about there, as it is (for those of you on the fence) a very beautiful city, with awesome history. (As long as we don't have to do the Historical Freedom Trail. *shudder* So... many... redundant lectures...)

I'm in college in New York until the end of May. But I could probably do June, if I could find a ride. I live up in New Hampshire. I'd definitely love to come!

You are NOT allowed to disappear without telling me how you did that fadey thing with the letters!

My brain...GAH!

And I haven't even *seen* the movie yet.

My condolences...*shudders*

But I wish the potential sporkers good luck.

I have to see the movie, methinks. looks nothing like the book, so it should be good.

*falls to knees and weeps* The poor canon! It was so young! D X}

I'm claiming one of the first two. I don't know which one yet. I will have to look at them. But since one of my agents is a former dragonrider... well... there will be blood. Lots and lots of glittery blood.

~Neshomeh

I'ma gonna fire up my MST-ing pen.

Or maybe I'll use one for my Permission request mission...


Thanks!

I can give it a read-through.

I think the author of the essay must've been someone whose friend got PPC'ed or Sue-shamed somehow. Mary Sues aren't female empowerment characters -- often they act shallow and vapid and replace strong female characters.

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said. All I can say is this: I've written rants when someone gave me hard crit. Long-winded rants, sometimes. This piece of pseudo-academia, though, takes the cake. It's giving a mature mask to an otherwise immature reaction. Mary Sues are unacceptable. In fact, sometimes the Sues are bullies in their own right.

I only wish I'd discovered the PPC boards sooner, so I could have given my two cents in the heat of this battle. Right now, I have to settle for comfortably smouldering.

...by being caught up in real life concerns. Silly me.

I found out about all this brouhaha today by reading a post on Geek Feminism that was much more concise and in the same vein as Mary Sue sporking = misogyny, bullying, and marginalization of women writers.

It's the last part that really bugs me. There is marginalization of women writers -- it is real, and needs to be addressed. Honest criticism of bad writing =/= not being able to get published in fantasy or sci-fi unless you take a male name (CJ Cherryh is who I'm referencing specifically). Female writers are still marginalized, especially in 'genre' writing.

But no, instead of addressing problems in the book-publishing industry, let's say that sporking is the real problem here.

Give me a break.

You know, I'm a feminist, and proud of it...I understand -- I really do -- that there is misogyny and abuse in telling people to grow a thicker skin when they're dealing with real marginalization. I deal with it every day. If I can't get published because I'm a woman and you tell me to grow a thicker skin, that is misogynistic. Telling me my writing is what's preventing me from getting published because my characters are unbelievable, or my setting sucks, or my dialogue isn't connected well enough (which is a real problem in my writing that I've been working on), is not misogyny. It is criticism.

(Now, if you specifically said my characters were unbelievable because most of them are women and strong and defy traditional gender roles, then yeah -- sexism right there. But that's not the same as saying "This passage is awkward, and your MFC seems a bit OOC." Not at all.)

Also, what I find very interesting is that it seems okay to criticize bad writers if they're male, or have a male OC that warps the canon. How is it feminist to want to give women special treatment because they can't handle criticism?

There are not enough headdesks in the WORLD for this.

I'm so riled up I wrote 15 pages worth of essay last night at work. Here:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc42qtdb_2c4rnmrc6

*breathes in*

*breathes out*

Right. So. This discussion seems to be approaching a point at which it will no longer be productive for anyone. That means it's time to take a step back and attempt to regain some objectivity.

Let's be clear about a couple of things:

1. Boosette and her friends don't like the way we do things. That's okay--they have that right. Yes, even if they don't precisely understand our point of view.

2. We don't agree with the majority of what she said about us, or how she said it. That's okay, too.

To sum up, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Right? Right.

Now then. I think most of us would be fairly happy to quietly go back to business as usual, without further unpleasantness, but if we want to continue a dialogue with our fellow human beings, we're going to have to cool our heads and come up with an actual line of communication, 'cause what's happening right now doesn't count--it's more akin to shouting at each other from either side of a ravine. We've done the whole "circle the wagons" thing; to switch metaphors, we've also run up the colors and fired a warning shot across the bows. Now it's time for parley, if they'll have it, or surrender if not. Because this isn't war, and we don't want war. We just want to get the facts straight.

However that may be, let's be clear about one more thing for ourselves: we've received a critique, and we of all people ought to respect that. We may not agree with all of it, we may not like the form it's taken, but hey, we can take it, right? And some important issues in our community have come to light because of it. I believe those issues deserve their own thread, up at the top where everyone will see it, so I'm going to start one tomorrow, after I've slept and had some time to compose my thoughts some more. Keep an eye out for it.

In the meantime, don't anybody say anything, here or anywhere else, without thinking it through first, all right? Let's not let this get out of hand.

~Neshomeh, moderating.

So, since this is a wide-open public forum, well known organization, and very well known by some of the people with boosette, and because I (and probably other people) told them, they eventually got around to answering this thread/Araeph's response. Bear in mind that the following is a quote from the person who directed me to this 'Board about five years ago, and the person who is responsible for me actually writing like a coherent adult, and not (A/N: LOLZ lyk dis!!!) anymore. It's not some ignorant, just-stepped-into-fanfic kid who's got her feathers ruffled.

"We don't need to do a rebuttal to their argument. We've already won. The vast majority of fandom agrees with us, and is sick of being shamed and harassed for what they write. The PPC can think they're right and correct and the good guys all they like; we really don't care, because we (despite their protestations) aren't bullying people weaker than us, and they are."

This, though, is the community's response. Or as much as we're going to get.

Personally, I dislike much of this thread here, especially the part where people go "Oh, but we don't target canons, so she didn't do the research!" If I had any real interest, I'd go back and find all the times people have labeled a character Canon Sue/Stu. I've had entire debates on whether Tamora Pierce's characters (most of them, not all) fit the bill. No, we don't target canons in missions, but there are plenty of people who have asked to, over the years. I will say that we do target both male and female targets, so I'm not certain about the "anti-feminist!" thing. That's a bit out of line.

But their points about being unnecessarily harsh and cruel struck a chord with me. I got a bit upset when I realized that nobody really seems to bother giving authors concrit anymore, if they want to just eviscerate the story. That bothers me. If our interests are in trying to improve fandom, shouldn't we try to help people improve? I know most of the people on here started out writing utter shit, I sure as hell did, and would we have improved if no one had ever bothered pointing out-- nicely or mockingly-- our flaws, and how to fix them?

More to the point, we can go on and on and on about how Sues really are horrible horrible horrible things, and personally I'm not a fan of OOC or bad syntax, but in the Constitution itself, it says

"17. Mary Sues are generally despised and though most of the Regulars will (probably) treat you with respect if you like them, this Board is not the best place for you.

18. If you hate Lord of the Rings, this Board is definitely NOT the place for you. You’ll find pretty much everyone here in disagreement with you."

Mary Sues are GENERALLY DESPISED. Not The Evil That Stalks Us All In Everything. Just... we don't like them. Okay. But it also says no flaming, and that Regulars should treat their fans with respect (at least, all the other parts of the Constitution lean that way on top of it).

But there's also a rule against flaming, and against abuse, and I have seriously been somewhat freaked out by the number of people around here who seem to quietly applaud trolling and flaming. That's not helpful. Part of my problem with Boosette's rant was that she seemed to lump us, a bunch of people who I've always kind of thought of as fairly easygoing, definitely capable of holding a decent conversation with a badfic author if they made an effort (which has been done in the past, I think), or a debate on Sues, an intelligent debate, in with the people who post reviews like "Your character is a Sue and you should die in a fire for writing her." That... that's not what the PPC is supposed to be about.

It says so in the original series. "I don't like that these stories can make me a common flamer." (Jay, Children of the Earth.)

So yeah. I don't think the PPC is a herd of evil bloodthirsty wolves and bullies, but I think we walk a fine line sometimes, and it's a good idea to keep it in check.

It seems as though the only way someone can be this blinded to the harms of Mary Sues is if one of her or her friend's characters has been taken down. Do we know if any of her stories has been the subject of a mission? If so, was it a particularly violent assassination? That would most likely create a feeling of dislike, especially if she had connected to the Sue, though this seems like it is rather out of proportion. A Sue team, perhaps?

I'm going to agree with everyone who said that Boosette has a misconception of misogyny, Mary Sues, female empowerment, and the PPC. She probably didn't look into these things much further than the basic definitions. She does have a point about bullying the Suethors, though. The PPC does have to make sure that we don't start insulting the Suethor in that sort of way. That problem isn't very common, though, so there wasn't much of a reason for Boosette to bring it up as if it were a plague. I also don't like that she neglected to mention that the PPC pretty much fits the same age group as fanfiction authors. And that many of us are female. And that there are male Suethors, too.
What really ticked me off is the fact that she seemed to imply that the PPC hates characters like Keladry of Mindelan. Keladry is my favorite character! I even like Daine, the true canon Sue of the Tortall books. (Watch out for cursing from this point on.) She's basically calling me a misogynistic, cold hearted, bullying bitch for disliking bad fanfiction, which isn't too far from the truth, except for the misogynistic and bullying parts. Still...
I'm not sure why Boosette went off and wrote this essay/rant. I mean, I'm pretty sure she's the same Boosette from the Goldenlake forum. That Boosette is highly opinionated, yes, but she hasn't gone off in an essay-long, meandering rant on that forum. She didn't even rail me for being a PPC agent when I blatantly made it known there from the very beginning. I sure hope she doesn't try to glean support from the Goldenlake community, though. People already think I'm insane there, and this wouldn't make matters better. I'm trying to make the PPC look positive to the Tortall fans, not negative.
Anyway, this was a very interesting essay. Thanks for linking it.

...who regularly flames Mary Sues, I'm guessing I'm the one she imagines when she talks about the PPC. All of her points seem fairly invalid when she starts by equating Mary Sues with all strong female characters. Because that's just wrong. There's nothing feminist about bad writing, even if it is glorifying women. Mary Sue isn't applied to strong women, just badly written strong women who aren't part of a regular continuity. I write strong female characters all the time. Hell, I love strong women. That's why this pisses me off so much.

I just wanted to ask:
Wasn't "Mary Sue" ALWAYS a negative term? I mean, we get the phrase from the famous Star Trek fanfic that MOCKED that kind of character. When was it ever neutral?

There's this OFC I like. She's friends with the best con man in the world even though she's married to the FBI agent who sent him to prison. She's stubborn and emotional and sharp as a whip, and even though she could do anything in the world she has a job where she makes things pretty because she loves it. Sometimes she gets hysterical and her husband leaves his job to come home and fix the things that are making her hysterical. And she once had her office torn apart by the bad guys! And then her straight-laced husband PUNCHED THE BAD GUY IN THE FACE and it was awesome and he got suspended for it. Also she's gorgeous and she's shaped kindof like me, ie: round. Which might have something to do with her actress being pregnant, but a girl can wallow in vicariously sized awesome for as long as it's available, right?

Her name is Elizabeth Burke. She's the best thing about White Collar.

There's this OFC I like. She's kindof inappropriately in love with her boss and doesn't really know what to do about it, and doesn't know that she can do anything about it.

Um, about right here is where you should have read up on your definitions of Mary Sue.

She's also the best damned helmswoman in the galaxy (otherwise she wouldn't be piloting the flagship space-vehicle), and when her captain is stupid and gets himself roofied and kidnapped and almost turned out to pasture as a stud, as it were, she takes a team down to the planet and BLOWS THE TOP OFF THE MOUNTAIN where the bad guys are keeping him. And when that appears to not work, she takes a small team inside the mountain (well: this doesn't work either,

Here would be good, too.

since all they guys on the team get left back at home, and it's just her and this other chick, and you can see where this is going, right?). So the bad guys try to make her captain choose a mate from the available females! And they tell him all about her private fantasies about him! And even though she's pretty MORTIFIED ABOUT IT,

Oh, definitely here. Mary Sues and mortification do not go hand in hand.

she helps take one of the bad guys hostage so they can escape! But then when the bad guys are twirling their collective mustaches and talking about breeding a race of artisans and stuff, she OVERLOADS HER SIDEARM TO KILL EVERYONE THERE rather than let her descendants live as genetically engineered slaves. Word of God has that she's the most beautiful, smartest, capable person on her planet for the year she was born, and that she was designed to be that way. She has lots and lots of Issues and an interpersonal inferiority complex because of this.


Her name is Number One. She's from the Star Trek Pilot film The Cage and unless you've been living under a rock these past six months you know she is my FAVORITE thing about the Star Trek franchise.


There's this OFC I like. She really wanted to be a knight all her life, and she was raised in Japanalogue so she's not good at expressing her feelings, and her parents are TOTALLY BEHIND HER in becoming a knight. But the training master isn't! He doesn't believe women SHOULD be knights cause they're weak and hysterical and easily frightened! So she works REALLY HARD and makes friends and lives with people who don't like her and has a dog and birds even though pages aren't allowed to have pets. The training master even loves her dog! And she has a secret rich benefactor who equips her with the best weaponry EVER and turns out to be her childhood hero - the only other female knight in the land! And she gets crushes on all her BFFs (okay well, just the one BFF and then the BFF's cousin) and then then the commander of this really awesome division of elite soldiers PICKS HER AS HIS SQUIRE. He is hilarious and snarky and like a grown up version of Our Heroine and that's awesome. On her first mission with him she adopts a baby griffin and it's pretty much a disaster until its parents show up and DON'T ACTUALLY KILL her even though griffins always kill anyone who touches their babies! And then when she finally gets her shield, she gets handed the command of a refugee camp! But it's okay because her old training master, the one who didn't believe in her? HE'S CHANGED HIS MIND. She's the only one he TRUSTS enough for the job! Nobody else would be able to do it RIGHT! And at the end after lots of action and kidnappings and questing to slay the bad guy, she comes home and she's not hanged as a traitor even though she committed treason by disobeying a direct order from her liege during wartime!

Her name is Keladry of Mindelan, from Tamora Pierce's Protector of the Small, and I LOVE HER LOTS.

Oh, I love Keladry of Mindelan to the ends of the earth. She’s one wonderful character, not least because she worked her ass off every waking moment to achieve all that she did and had a crippling fear of heights that almost prevented her from rising to knighthood. She’s a much better character than SuperSue Veralidaine Sarrasri.
Hmm, something in common. At least we’re off to a good start!

*


Gene Roddenberry married Number One's actress. Tamora Pierce is on-record as having said that Kel is her favorite character to write.

You can see where I'm going with this.

Yes, and good old trodden ground it is, too: the unfortunate misconception that because we don’t share your opinion that Mary Sues are awesome and cool characters, that we automatically MUST dislike all female characters who actually ARE awesome and cool!

Writing these women as they appear in canon would constitute writing them as "Mary Sues" -- They're special. They're competent, they're attractive, they have weaknesses and insecurities

It baffles me why anyone would post a long rant in support of Mary Sues without knowing exactly what a Mary Sue is.

and by virtue of being protagonists and first-string supporting characters, they warp plots and universes and other characters to their needs.

You can only “warp” a story to your needs if it didn’t revolve around you in the first place. A world revolving around a main character is only a problem if the story is fanfic and a Sue has replaced a canon character as the protagonist.

Elizabeth is Peter Burke's greatest weakness; Kel talks to the king and gets him to rescind a law she doesn't like; Number One is executive officer of the Federation Starfleet flagship despite being only a lieutenant and is "the most experienced officer on the ship," second to Pike himself, to boot.

These characters are awesome. No really, look at these characters: how awesome are they?

I’m not familiar with the other two characters, but they sound a helluva lot better than Marty Stu Eragon or what’s-his-face from Twilight.

*

Once upon a time, the term "Mary Sue" was a value-neutral genre descriptor:

Hah!

Original (female, let's be real here)

Yes, denying Marty Stu’s existence is always a good idea.

characters who entered the story, won the admiration of all the canon characters around her, who won the day and maybe developed a romantic relationship with one or more of said canon characters (usually the author's favorite).

Pat Pflieger writes her paper, 150 Years of Mary Sue:
The Cinderella portrayed by Drew Barrymore in the movie Ever After, especially, is everything that defines the Mary Sue -- intelligent, funny, beautiful, physically strong, competent, lovable -- but there isn't the hint of self-deprecation we see in some of the Mary Sues cited above. From Schumann's paper, we get a sense that young teenaged girls now aren't as willing to abdicate their natural powers as were girls of previous generations; it's their right to be competent and strong, and to carry off the occasional prince over their shoulders.

The term was coined in 1974. It is not the value-neutral term it once was, and you only have to look so far as Protectors of the Plot Continuum (PPC) to see this for yourself. Or Godawful Fanfiction. Or marysues, or deleterius, or ...

Let's look at PPC. The website intro reads:

But changing the *main plotline* of the canon story is ridiculous. (Except in speculative AU "what-if" type stories.) And Mary Sues upstage the canonical main characters, which really should not happen. If you want to be the main character, try doing original fiction. Then you can even publish it without breaking copyright laws, maybe even get rich. But if you do that, please knock your character down a few notches from "angel".

*grins* Jay and Acacia. Gotta love ’em.

The Fanlore description of PPC reads:

Protectors of the Plot Continuum, often abreviated PPC, is a cross between sporking and an RPG. The PPC is an organisation dedicated to the elimination of badfic. It is divided into various departments such as the Department of Mary Sues and the Department of Bad Slash. Writers create characters called Agents who go into badfic, spork the story, and fix it by killing Mary Sues, exorcising OOC characters, and otherwise restoring the story universe back to its original state.

Translated, roughly:

If by “roughly” you mean “like Babelfish on 40 proof,” then yes, your explanation of what the PPC does is indeed a translation.

PPC goes around bullying tweens, teens, young women and yes: older women, too –

You could have just said “PPC goes around bullying people who write Sues”; the fact that you didn’t, coupled with your choice to list “tweens” first, suggests that you are making age a factor in your “bully” argument.

Funnily enough, “Tweens, teens, young women, and yes: older women, too—” is exactly how I would describe the members of the PPC themselves. We have some younger members, and some older members; almost all of us are young women. When we started out, the average age of a PPCer was a whopping sixteen years old. It has since gone up to *gasp* twenty and a half. We’re almost old enough to drink, we are!

For the most part, Suethors actually share our gender and age bracket. So, there is no need to bring up the youth of Suethors in your argument. (There is no need to bring up their gender, either, but I will address that part momentarily.)

for daring to write fanfiction not up to their (dubious) standards.

Hoo boy, there’s a lot of ground to cover with that one phrase.

Let’s start with:

1. Please explain to me how writers are “daring” anything when creating a fanfic Mary Sue. Yes, PPC and GAFF and the like make fun of Mary Sues, but if you look at any major fandom—LotR, HP, PotC, Star Trek—and calculate the ratio of Mary Sue authors to Mary Sue mockers…I’m afraid we are badly, badly, outnumbered. In fact, having one’s Suefic mocked by the PPC is akin to being struck by lightning in its rarity. Heck, if you want to write what everyone else in fandom is writing, get lots of reviews from like-minded writers, and have fellow writers come to your defense for any criticism whatsoever of your beloved fic, Mary Sue is the way to go! She’s not defying convention. She IS the convention.

2. We set the standards for good and bad fanfiction? We did no such thing.
The original story, the canon, set all those standards far better than we ever could. All we do is remind fans what those standards are.
And yes, writing fanfic that’s as good as canon is still a bar most fans can’t hope to reach. But you see, Boosette, the PPC doesn’t look for fic to mock near the bar. It looks past the bar beneath that bar, and the bar under that, and finally peels back the mat underneath the lowest bar and boggles at the grime found underneath. The stories by supposed fans who seem to have forgotten that the high bar even exists.

3. Please explain to me which of our standards you find to be dubious, and why.

For writing original female characters, minor canon characters and major canon characters in a manner that is empowering to them.

Again, we seem to have so much in common! We too write original female canon characters, minor canon characters, and major canon characters is a manner that is empowering to us. But unlike the Suethors, we understand that just giving a character heaps and heaps of power for no reason isn’t empowering. Neither is stomping all over the personality of a well-developed canon character just to puff up Sue’s ego. It doesn’t make the Mary Sue better, or as special as the author thinks she is. After all, any author can rain a golden shower of gifts on a pet character; why does that make the character great?

What is empowering is allowing a character to earn power for herself by virtue of the conflicts that arise in a story. Even having a character try to earn power and fail honorably is more empowering than just imbuing a character with incredible abilities and watching her take out ridiculously enervated villains.

Ultimately, Mary Sue is bowling-with-bumpers safe as a way to experience a story. She is unrealistically beautiful, inhumanly powerful, and always gets rewarded for everything she does with only the barest of struggles. She can’t fail. She can’t get humiliated. The story itself will dutifully remove all real obstacles from her shining path. And a character who needs her author to do all that work for her is not a character who has any sort of power. On the contrary, that character is weak.

Something posted at the site where this essay was published, and containing all the counterpoints that had already been posted there (Mary-Sues conform to patriachal ideals more often than not, majority of PPCers are female and empowered, words are taken out of context).

Maybe I'll get lynched for this someday, but I am really, really sick of seeing 'femenine empowerment' and - worst of all - "equality" as a word being thrown around to justify whatever the speaker/author happens to be angry about. I'm sick of it. Whether we use the actual term or not, no one can deny that Mary Sue characters are downright terrible examples of writing, and we can make fun of it if we like - just as talk show hosts or parody movie makers or whomever else in the published/public world can make fun of things. Yes, I think this woman has a point when she says that the term is being applied to broadly, but that doesn't mean it can't be used at all. I've lost count of how many times people misuse words like "dumb", "irony", or _ - that doesn't mean the rest of us can't go on using them properly.

... Wow. I believe that qualifies as a rant. First in a while.

Anyway, in a slightly calmer but more disjointed fasion:

She's making too many connections that aren't there. People tend to be cruel in their critque of Mary Sues - a lot of people tend to be cruel in their critique of real life people - like politicians - as well. That doesn't mean that whomever is shouting that Bush is an idiot is empowered just because she's a woman, or that she is in any way less entitled to her opinion just because a Bush supporter (male or female) shouts her down.

Also, this writer talks about context and fails to acknowledge that characters like Number One are great IN CONTEXT, but shoved rudely into another character's place (say, Captain Janeway), she'd be just as bad. Characters are good in the stories they are written for, and stories don't have room for an endless number of Great Characters.

Last, I agree with Artell - no one is making them post their work in public.


(I'm in a rush - again - so this is all rough. I'll phrase myself better later.)

It sounds like a kneejerk reaction to me, and an ill-thought-out one at that. There's a definite suggestion that women writing is good, and I'm down with that, but it's coupled with an assumption that just because someone can pick up a pen and form squiggles, they should proudly display said squiggles to the world.

Having the freedom to write is a good thing. But I strongly object to the idea that writing of poor quality in a public place is "empowering", and that to comment on the quality is "bullying".

It seems to me that to call writing of any quality empowering simply because a woman is able to produce it in fact serves to demean women. It's patronising. Writing should be applauded, where warranted, for its own sake, not because its author has the fortune to live in a society granting (almost) all individuals the requisite education and freedom to put pen to paper. Female authors should be held to the same standards as male authors: they should be judged on the quality of their writing. I would mock a story written by a boy, a black person, a gay person, a disabled person, a French person, someone of any given group you care to name, if their writing was of poor quality, not because of who they are, but because it is poor quality. Hiding behind centuries of oppression is not a valid answer to storytelling skills in need of improvement.

Maybe all of you lot in the DMS do things differently, I don't know. But I was under the impression the PPC's raison d'etre is to spork bad writing, whether it features Sues or not. The writer of the essay doesn't seem to have realised that. Perhaps we're giving the wrong impression somewhere. Perhaps she didn't do the research. Who knows?

It's funny to me that the author of this essay thinks PPC missions are intended as attacks against the Suethors. Most of the mission writers I know of don't even contact the original Suethor to begin with. The essay says writing badfic doesn't hurt anyone; well, neither do PPC missions or other sporkings.

Also, as Neshomeh mentioned already, using another term or phrase in place of "Mary Sue" wouldn't change the badness of the stories they appear in, or any reader's reaction to them. To paraphrase Shakespeare, a rose will always the same flower, no matter what we may call it.

The author lost me at the suggestion that well-rounded canon characters would be branded Mary Sue.

I stopped reading there. I had a feeling I knew where this was going. Somewhere in the direction of: some people call these characters Mary Sues; they are wrong; therefore all people who call characters Mary Sues are wrong.

There's a logical fallicy in there I can't quite put my finger on. At least not at the moment. Perhaps after a good night of sleep.


I shall leave you with a message I received a few weeks ago.
Someone whose empowerment I apparently shamed (wrote a mission to one of her fics) send me a message telling me she thought it was "piss funny" though she'd been upset about it at first. She said she'd rewritten the story, hoped it was better, and asked me to take a look at it and give her any tips.

I think that's a case where the PPC is empowering. Empowering authors to get better at their craft.

I think she failed to demonstrate her point with her examples by failing to illustrate the connections between one and the other. Also missed the point, at least where the PPC is concerned. As Italian for Grandma said, Did Not Do The Research.

And... her entire point is that the term "Mary-Sue" is hurtful and shouldn't be used? Okay. I'm perfectly happy to say "poorly-written, unrealistic, shallow female character" instead if it'll make everyone feel better. {= P

I think I would be less annoyed if I felt we could respond publicly without being told to shut up. The hypocrisy burns us, Precious!

But maybe this warrants a new entry in the FAQ For Other People...

Calling Mary-Sue is misogynist!
There are those who believe that sporking Mary-Sues perpetrates a culture that oppresses young women trying to empower themselves through their writing, and that the term itself is offensive. We disagree.

First of all, many Mary-Sues themselves are NOT empowered characters, and ascribe to the basest tenets of the patriarchy (heterosexual marriage is the true way to happiness, women are homemakers, men win the bread, etc.) (Artell). How many Mary-Sues join the Fellowship only to have Aragorn or Boromir save them in a dramatic manner from a danger that a so-called empowered female could have got out of herself? How many Mary-Sues fall in love with a wholly unsuitable, even dangerous man (e.g. Sweeney Todd, Severus Snape, the Phantom of the Opera), and expect the power of Twu Wuv to turn him into the perfect mate and father so she can have a perfect life? How many Mary-Sue stories depend on a man to complete the fantasy? How is that empowering to women?

Second, the PPC believes that there is no excuse for bad writing, and the fact of the matter is that people who write Mary-Sues are likely to be poor writers. However, there IS such a thing as a well-written Mary-Sue, as shocking as that may seem. We are aware of this. You will never see us sporking a well-written, well-constructed Mary-Sue. Why? Because, as is stated elsewhere, the PPC rarely goes after only moderately bad fics, and we will never go after a good one. Even if it contains a Mary-Sue.

The fact that we primarily spork Sues has little to do with hating female characters and everything to do with hating bad writing. It's like drawing a correlation between ice cream sales and murders: the number of ice cream sales in a month appears to strongly correlate to the number of murders in a month; however, ice cream sales clearly do not cause murders. Both ice cream sales and murders strongly correlate to the temperature of the weather: murders are more likely to occur in warm weather, and so are ice cream sales. Similarly, Mary-Sues alone do not warrant sporking. Even though many sporkings happen to Mary-Sues, it is because of the third factor of bad writing, not the Sues themselves.

Third, a question: would you rather have us use a word other than Mary-Sue? Because we're perfectly happy to say "poorly-written, unrealistic, shallow female character" instead if it'll make everyone feel better.

Finally, we cannot ignore the fact that most fan fiction writers, sporkers and Suethors alike, are female. Although women can certainly be misogynist, it's a bit foolish to overlook this fact when complaining of sexist behavior. Of COURSE most of the works we spork are written by female writers, because that's who's doing most of the writing. If more guys were out there writing terrible stories, we'd spork them, too. Have done, in fact. [Insert links to killed Gary-Stus here]. It's just that they appear with far less frequency than female Mary-Sues written by female writers.

Feel free to add to/refine that. It's heat-of-the-moment right now, probably not the most objective or clear. ^_^;

~Neshomeh

A lot of people can be unnecessarily cruel when criticizing a Mary-Sue fic. I know, because I can be that at times. We have to remember that we are not here to make fun of aspiring authors, since many of us were at that same point at one time or another.

That said, the author of this essay demonstrates the typical fanbrat tendency of not doing the research. She has a temper tantrum at the beginning of the essay about taking words out of context, and then she goes right ahead and takes Jay and Acacia's words out of context. The rant didn't even really fit in with the point she was trying to make.

And that comic strip? Hah! If she was trying to criticize the PPC, she's a hypocrite, because she's advocating the same sort of behavior she seems to detest in PPC agents.

Then she lists a few awesome female characters who, in different contexts, might be called Sues...and says that we hate them. No we don't, because these characters were handled well. They were special, yeah, but not so much more so than everyone else. They didn't get away with breaking the laws of nature, physics, and their respective governments simply because of their specialness. They had characters, and stuck to them. They didn't try to 'fix' a world that didn't require fixing. When faced with a misogynistic society or situation, they didn't fix it by spewing mindless feminist rhetoric (like the author of this essay), they fixed it by bloody well pulling up their sleeves and *prooving* they could be as good as the boys. Yeah, they saved the day, and they were badass about doing it, but the whole world did *not* revolve around their every little need. *That's* what makes a strong feminine character...the ability to be strong just because she *is* strong.

Eowyn, anyone?

Plus, Mary Sues *are* the product of a misogynistic mindset. You know how everyone criticizes rail-thin models because they threaten the self-image of preteen girls? A Mary Sue is what happens when that negative self-image crosses over into fanfiction, when a girl is convinced that in order to be special, she has to be a goddess...instead of just being herself. I'm convinced that if more girls were satisfied with who and what they are, we would have less Mary-Sues to kill.

The essayist also forgets that, while the majority of fanfic writers *are* female, there are males as well...and they have to put up with the same type of crap that female authors do. For example, the PPC criticizes Twilight, a badfic published by a female author, for obvious reasons. However, it also criticizes the Inheritance Cycle, a badfic published by a male author, also for obvious reasons. This isn't about us trying to repress female authors...it's about us giving male *and* female authors a reality check. If the essayist had cared to actually read the missions, she would have seen that the PPC is an equal-opportunity sporking society.

Anyone who has read the sporkings of "That Series" knows that the PPC isn't misogynistic...the fics the PPC kills are.

And I shall descend from my soapbox now.

intellectually dishonest to hide behind the barrier of feminism and female empowerment to defend poor writing. It demeans female empowerment. Many Mary Sues are NOT empowered characters, and ascribe to the basest tenets of the patriarchy (heterosexual marriage is the true way to happiness, women are homemakers, men win the bread, etc.).

To paint PPC and critics of Sues as misogynistic is doubly dishonest, because PPCers are, in my impression, predominantly female*, which leads to my main point: *fan fiction is mainly written by women.* I just can't find any way around that fact. If a vast majority of fics are by women, then poor fics will also be written mostly by women, and thus you will have way more female Mary Sues.

It reminds me of the way heterosexual white men go about whining how modern society is actually oppressing *them*.

'Bullying' is also disingenuous. No one is making you publish your writing. If you don't like the criticism, you can ignore it, you can not accept it, you can circulate your stories in a closed community. But if you publish it on a place like fanfiction.net, you are implicitly consenting to scrutiny.

* Caveat: women CAN be misogynistic, obviously.

I doubt you'd need a second opinion after Neshomeh's, but I ran into a good songfic the other day, so I'm with her. (The quality was helped greatly by the fact that it was a ration of 3 lines of lyric to 5 paragraphs of fic, making it a lot less disjointed and more comparable to the practice of normal authors starting sections out with quotes, kind of like Cornelia Funke's "Inkheart" does.

Theoretically there could be such a thing as a good songfic, but I think the consensus is that most of them are bad and that making a good one is probably so difficult as to be nearly impossible.

I think the issue comes from trying to include an auditory effect in a purely visual medium. If you listened to the song in question while reading the story it might work well, but simply injecting the lyrics into the narrative makes only for disjointed writing, especially when the lyrics don't quite fit the action. If a writer managed to pull it off smoothly, though, and had an interesting story to tell rather than an angstfest, it could work.

So, to answer the question, no, simply writing a songfic is not a charge. As with any other type of fic, the charge list for a songfic would have to demonstrate why it's a bad songfic.

~Neshomeh

Simply put? You can call your agents whatever you like, and sing whatever you like :)

There have been plenty of agents with similar or the same names, particularly when those names are standard normal names, like Tristan, or Bob or Amy or whatever.

Likewise, it's your agent character. If they like Hilary Duff and Nickelback, then they like Hilary Duff and Nickelback. Not everyone is going to agree, but that doesn't mean that we forbid them.

I had a thought on this. It may be that in the universe of Bleach, Aizen's hypnosis is irreversible. However, it occurs to me that hypnosis involves the brain. That said, perhaps the use of a neuralyzer might reverse said hypnosis.

To sum up: Using canon methods = irreversible. Using out of canon methods = possibly reversible.

It might take some time to figure out the treatment, but there may be a cure using techniques and technologies from other universes.

Hello, enjoy your stay, and have a Sunny.

Welcome to the Board! Please deposit your sanity in the provided receptacle. *indicates bucket marked "Warg Fodder"* You shan't need it here. Also, here's a shiny explody thing.

Wow, you must have an amazing tolerance for badfic! All I can offer in the way is a truly awful badfic I stumbled across while looking at a prospective target (on the adult Pit, so I should have known better *reaches for Bleeprin*) - a series of delightful fics centred round a pairing of Shagrat/Faramir. *is squicked*

Have a platter of chocolate-covered profiteroles, a recruiting poster of Lord Kitchener, and a pet mongoose, available for collection from the PPC Mongoose Shelter.

Always nice to have new boarders ;)

Anyway, you are either much braver than I am, or your brain has a lack of mental nerves. I have enough trouble getting through the missions tackling legendary badfic (and no, it's not that I'm interested in the "story", it's that I'm interested in the agent).

If you are intent on reading those stories, take a bladed yo-yo. It might help you keep your mind off the worst parts--especially during the learning phase. Yes, that does mean that it is possible to use the yo-yo without slicing your hand apart. Practice and you'll probably master it.

Welcome to the PPC! Here's a dagger set from the Raven Armory and a bottle of bleeprin. I'm trying to avoid the more disturbing bad fanfic myself, but I think you'll find many if you stick around here long enough. Just check the threads that bemoan a fandom (or five) for the awful badfics that have been created.

Have a large welcoming cake (empty of Agent Lux, I checked.)

Welcome! And thank God I'm not the only Boarder who thinks since Celebrain is a cop out, since the intent is to be disturbing. Now, for the welcome gift...You usually are supposed to give imaginary gifts, but for you, I offer a list of fics bad as or worse than Celebrian! Yaay! Well, sort of...

Cho Chang's Desires
Draco's Christmas Cuppa
Land Before Time: Littlefoot x Cera
legolas by laura
Lion King Orgy Poem
Little Miss Mary
Subjugation

Welcome, new friend! Have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay here!

Fair winds!

Hello! Have a seventeen foot long, multi-color, wool, knit scarf (curly wig not included), and a bag of jelly babies.

Please use them IRresponsibly!

Kittens make everythng better.

Have a coxcomb. It's a sort of silly hat.

Have you tried That Series? It's up there with C*l*br**n on the list of Legendary Badfic. And there's that Land Before Time atrocity...You can check out the Legendary Badfic entry on the wiki. (I'm not going to link you, because linking newbies to the Legendary Badfic is bad decorum.)

Regarding Rule 18, you should be fine. We're a lot more diverse than we were when the rules were written, and while certainly most of us are LOTR fans, as long as you don't bash it, there shouldn't be a problem. (And I'd consider pipeweed more of a tobacco equivalent myself, but that might be just me.)

How did you guys know I was in to Warhammer and Early 20th century Military gear? (seriously - I'm still trying to find out if it's legal to own a WW1 trench spike in the UK, and where I can find one if so). Well, I'll take the helmet, it's better than what we get in the Guard. And the antibacterial sword will come in handy when I need to amputate my limbs in order to escape my inevitable capture at the hands of chaos. The granite pillow is far more comfortable than the standard issue one so thanks for that. The emperor scorpion I can throw at the commisar when I invariably fail my leadership test facing down a horde of charging berserkers, and the bumper sticker I can use to cover up the plasma flash burns I have after Larry's gun exploded in a blast of searing light. So thanks to everyone! :P

Poor Larry. I always thought there was something wrong with him.

And now, some controversy! I've read the rules and I know for a fact that I'm good with most of them. I've never had a problem with other people's opinions, and I respect people's free will, but about rule 18... well, I don't HATE lord of the rings, in fact I think it is quite good fiction and it pretty much invented high fantasy, but I don't think it's the masterpiece everyone makes it out to be, and it starts really slowly. I actually skipped past the shire portion of the start of the book because it was going on about things like baggins family history and I don't know if this was just my version, but it had a 30 page foreword on such topics as the consistency and usage of Hobbit pot. Otherwise it was very good and I would recommend it if I knew anyone who had more mental stamina than a gnat with ADD. So there. Am I getting banned now? :P

Welcome to the PPC! Looks like you are already fairly versed in the normal procedures.

Here! Its a sword made out of disinfectant foam! It cuts your enemies AND bacteria! It might come in handy if you ever have to fight Nurgle. *shivers*

I see you've already been given The Links, so I'll have to settle for offering a granite pillow - it may help you break your head if and when you find something more disturbing than Celebr*an, though I really don't suggest it.

Nice to meet you. :)

It sounds like you don't shy away from the really bad writing. That's good; you've got the stomach to survive here (or at least one better than mine).

Have an emperor scorpion! You don't need gloves to handle it, probably.

*poke*

I don't know what you've already read, of course, but there are a few things you should definitely make time for. First, there is the Original PPC Series by Jay and Acacia--but you HAVE read that, I see. {= )

Second, we require that everyone read and abide by the Board Constitution, because it's nicer that way.

After that, there are several helpful documents on the Wiki designed to help acquaint newcomers with us and our habits and behaviors and general weirdness. Sedri's Guide to the PPC is particularly informative, especially when combined with the FAQ for Newbies and the Mission Writing Guide. If you do want to write PPC missions, you should also see the article about how to get Official Permission.

And that's probably quite enough to start with. {= ) Welcome! Have a bumper-sticker! *sticks one on you* ^__^

~Neshomeh

Greetings from another rookie! Enjoy this genuine WWI British infantryman helmet as a welcoming gift.

Now, I've only just joined the board, but I've read quite a few badfics, so I suppose I can offer some rudimentary advice :P and I have to agree it's very difficult to decide. I started with the pokemon one, since I know quite a bit about that. While there's not too much character development available in the two chapters to make her seem perfect, the story starts by talking about her HAIR (oh god, my immortal flashbacks) and lines like "When you were a baby, a gypsy was passing through Blackthorn and walked by your father holding you." Eevee told her through thought. "She stopped and told him, 'Your daughter will be blessed with a great gift, a gift no one will understand, and she will be able to calm even the most menacing beast." are VERY sue-like. She's also written 3 stories about Twilight, which is suvian from beginning to end.

I think that if she is a sue, it's very borderline. The twilight stories are, of course, suefics, but then again Twilight is a series which encourages sue writing and everyone and their mother has written a suefic on ff.net about twilight. I can't offer any opinion on her code geass fanfic because I've never watched it and frankly don't like the sound of it because I'm british.

I was unable to finish reading that awful thing. Hell, I wasn't even able to get through a MST. I had to read the sporkiste's comments and skip the story segments altogether.

... with the urine-drinking? I tried to read it a couple of times, but I could never get through it. All I remember is hearing second-hand about some kind of ceremony involving urine-drinking in it.

Reading through the author note now. Inner ear is ringing considerably, and that's only from *reading* the frakkin' thing. Have come across this gem:

"I was NEVER angry with the reviewers not liking the story, it’s how they handled themselves when leaving me the reviews. Getting riled up, ranting and raving, screaming and spitting nails over this story is what has caused me to get upset, not the fact that they didn’t like it."

This is coming from somebody who just posted a twenty-line rant against negative reviewers, COMPLETELY IN ALL CAPS? And she calls US immature.

I must be a masochist...I'm going back to it after this. *gaaaaaaaggg...*

or something like that. I've heard of this fic years ago, probably even before I heard of the PPC.

Not all fics are equally suited to turn in to missions. I think this one would be too bad to tackle; aside form the fact that it has already been tackled for sporking before.

I have been part of a group of people that have been doing an IRC MST of this fic. It's extremely disturbing. It starts with ten pages of "DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU ARE OFFENDED BY ANYTHING" and "I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT MY FIC" and then a preface and a preface to a preface. I love it because it communicates what a history the fic must already have, with people vehemently criticizing it already.

I mentioned in the essay discussion about some Mary Sues being conformist to traditional gender roles and from what I've seen, 'Jenna' fits this to a T. Her existence is at first empowered, as a travelling salesman (at the age of 14?!), but then her true happy life only begins once she finds a man she can marry and do lots of naughty business with.

PS. the wedding scene is hilarious. It reminds me of the weddings some fans have in real life. IRL it's just cute and a bit dorky, but in this fic and this context, it's disturbing. I forget but was the CAKE shaped like the frakking Tri-Force?

PPS. If you wanted to do an analysis of the sexual symbology (besides the obvious, painful sex scenes), you'd have a field day with the horses and the mounting and the everything. Well, they ARE dreams...

At the time of posting, I'm nearly halfway through this... this thing, this abominatioon.

I'm not really mentally stable enough to do this. I don't have the necessary calm of mind to read lines like "link let out an animal cry" and not imagine link screaming MOOOOOO and transforming into a giant cow beast. What is it about things like smashing cake into each other's faces like dumbasses that suethors find so appealing? That they think everyone finds appealing? and then there's things like "I nodded no" and the bit with the deku tree speaking in mangled ye olde englishe. I can't call it butchery, because that would be too violent for what is happening. All throughout this fic the author has... lovingly tortured the english language, cutting little pieces off with perfect precision and forging them into this guillotine for the soul.

And then they pee in a cup and drink it. Gah.

I've heard of this fic before, and it scares me. "Lucid dream" my left foot. Of course she can't just admit she has a crush on Link; at least most Suethors have that one lick of dignity.

Funny you should mention this fic. One of my sporkers (and potential Agent) is a grown up Link Junior. He has serious mother issues and a weak spot for Sue kids. (In that he feels bad for them, not in a molester-y type way.)

I went back and read through the entire thing, and it's pretty funny :P It made me laugh, which is unusaul. So well done, I like it! Is there a next chapter of the fanfic up yet?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99964-New-X-Com-Shooter-Coming-From-BioShock-2-Studio

For random chatter and the like. IMO you can just invent your own whenever you need one, I don't see the PPC being so organized as to actually have alphanumeric codes for every single continuity.

It sounds like something somebody used in one story for some plot reason and which never came up again. Weird.

But I know (despite not wanting to know - stupid steel-trap memory...) that "THX-1138" is a series of numbers George Lucas always tries to slip into his movies, so I imagine that if other continua had similar strings of relevant numbers (or letters), they'd be included.

Actually, wait - the last letters are the author's initials. Look:
Harry Potter: GNZ-4138-209-JR - J. (K.) Rowling
Star Wars: THX-1138-525-GL - George Lucas
Batman: FJÆ-4432-120-BK - No idea, but I'll bet "BK" is some original creator's name.

As for the numbers... I only know Harry Potter well enough to guess, but it looks like they're fairly random. The only thing you might do is match up the numbers to the letters on a telephone dial and see if they make any relevant words (JKR did that in book five herself, I believe).

I haven't seen them used in a story, at least not for a while. Isn't the continuum in question usually just named?

What're they used for?

I'm pretty sure AUs are where everything is different, but similar characters, and AC are where one plot point was different, and changed everything.

I use AU for both scenarios, since I don't think I've ever heard the term "Alternate Continuity" before. I kinda prefer saying "Alternate Universe anyway, but that's just me.

I've always heard 'alternate universe.'

I think the comic book industry played some role in the establishment of 'alternate universe' as the dominant phrase. While the idea of a parallel reality is found in multiple genres, DC and Marvel arguably got the most mileage out of it. Both companies have their own multiverses. Marvel has their What If line and DC has their Elseworld's line.

The comic definition of AU covers both of the distinctions you mentioned. An example of the first type (different setting, same characters) would be DC's Crime Syndicate of America. An example of the second (running identically until point X) would be DC's The Nail.

Can't remember where I saw it, either, sorry.

Alternate Continuity does seem to make more sense for a divergent timeline, but as Sedri said, it's probably too late to change the course of fan terminology by now.

If it helps, I think I know where Alternate Universe came from: the theory that every choice has multiple outcomes, each of which branches off from the main timeline into multiple alternate timelines, is known as the Many Worlds Theory because each alternate timeline is a separate universe, although they may look the same superficially. So, an Alternate Universe fic is a fic set in one of those split-off universes, which is similar to but separate from the original canon universe after that splitting point. Hence, Alternate Universe.

Terry Pratchett describes this phenomenon as the Trousers of Time. Strange, potentially paradoxical things happen if you accidentally go down the wrong pant leg.

~Neshomeh

I think most people (at least in my fanfic circles) do. But, there is definitely a difference and if we could go back and change the way fanfic terminology grew, I'd rather like to use your two types instead. Sadly, it's too late now; no one would understand.

I've never heard the term "Alternate Continuity" before. Strangely, now that I have heard it, I'd completely switch the distinctions that you have there. Yes, I know that a "Universe" is bigger than a "Continuity", but it seems to me like an AC story would be how you have described AU.

but I personally use AU for both types of story. The distinction you draw between the two types is a useful one, but not one that I've seen used so far.

E.g. most people I've seen would describe a Boromir!Lives or the Fellowship actually getting over Caradhras as an AU, even though they fit your "AC" definition of following canon up to a given point and then diverging.

There's no real definition for an FF.net muse. It can be anything from a favorite canon character, to a real-life significant other, to a co-author or friend who gave them a really good story idea via IM (I'm partial to this one). Sometimes, it's even used to refer to the story idea itself.

What would be really impressive is someone identifying exactly which Greek muse is inspiring them in their current fic. :D

Fanwriters (or, sometimes, fanartists) will often refer to their favored fictional characters as "muses" - some of them even have conversations with their muses in author's notes (a practice generally reviled by most of those who don't).

Fandom RPers will often refer to any of the characters they RP as muses, as well.

It is fairly common for a male artist to consider their girlfriend a muse - I'm not sure how often the reverse is true. This is especially true for painters/photographers/musicians.

But as stated, a muse can be anything. It can be a dog, a close friend. A ball you like bouncing.

In short, the Greek Muses were minor goddesses/spirits who inspired art and music and poetry. The term has come to be used by writers as meaning the source of their creative ability; if your Muse is feeling lazy, nothing gets done. Some people play on it and add that tf she's indulged with extra viewings of her(/your) favourite show or book, she can be bribed into giving more inspiration. Chocolate also works. Some people say they have multiple Muses - sometimes one for each fandom, or one for writing and one for painting, or whatever.

Long version of the original Greek stories are here.

Hope that helps. :)

I wish to formally apologize to the IRC staff and members for my cumulative behavior (listed by Plat) these past months. I realize my personality is grating, crass, rude, and offensive, and I wish to change this, with help from the community. I know this will not excuse my behavior, but I hope we can work to go past this.

Sincerely
Jack117

I want to know who did the banning. You see, it appears that everyone is banned from the Chat at the moment. Neshomeh and I are both getting the message that we are banned, so we would like to know what is going on.

Also, Jack, I don't know if you were banned with everyone else or on the basis of your behavior, but I would still take this as an opportunity to think about it.

Because over the past month, I've seen you:

-Insult women
-Try to piss July off because you thought it was funny
-Act inappropriately in front of minors
-Insult people who have just left the IRC room
-Break rules when you thought no one was looking

Those are just a few. There was also wanted to write slash between a six year old and a fifteen year old, then said that if you aged them they'd be "Too old". So, there, pick your favorite.

"Randomness!"
"Crack fic!"
"LOL!"
"Not a mary-sue!"
"You'll just have to read and see!"
Advertising one's story as "randomness" or "crackfic" usually indicates not a weird, silly, funny story but a lot of stupid stuff and inane jokes.

* Sue/Cannon Love Interest
* "What if...?"
* One word
* Not having anything to do with the story
* Vally-girl speak

Anything involving chat- or leetspeak makes me cringe, as does obvious misspellings. ALLCAPS are also out. As for actual content, I severely dislike anything that says something of the lines of 'wait and see' or rhetorical questions such as 'will they or won't they?'

Interestingly, I don't mind listed pairings. And please, please give spoiler or squick warnings, authors.

(NOTE: most of these are for summaries on ff.net, which are 48 words)
Things that make me go "huh?" in reviews are:
- not being able to polish 48 words to perfection
- stating that your story isn't a Mary-Sue/her XY counterpart
- announcing a pairing in the summary (and really, do any of these stories need badly written romance?)
- bad grammar
- bad spelling
- asking for reviews (I think that's just tacky in a summary)
- asking questions in the summary that are never answered later (a la "Hogan's Daughter" by Beanacre0)
-putting in a website blurb
---putting in a website blurb that has nothing to do with your story (and yes, I have seen this done a few times)
- casually dismissing canon
. . .
and I'm going to stop before I crash the website . . .
I'm rather rabid about summaries, good or bad. What can I say (blame Tirathon here, it's a bad habit I got from her)?
-H_W

Things that make me go huh?

"Not a Mary Sue!!"
Misspelling or misusing any words.
Chatspeak.
Giving info on other stories or life events
Saying 'this isn't a summary' or 'I suck at summaries'
* Just in anyway completely replacing the summary with something else.*
Insulting the canon characters gets me every time.

I am pretty forgiving of grammar errors, because my own grammar isn't great. However, if the grammar is so bad in the summary that I am cringing, it is usually a cause for backing away--not always, if it otherwise sounds like it could be intriguing, I might go ahead and give it a try.

I would have to read it to be absolutely sure, but from your description this sounds like a trollfic. Look, the grammar and spelling are good, so the author(s) obviously know how to write, they've read the books so they know what the canon is, but they still get everything wrong about elves, mangle the canon in every way possible, and they admit that they're doing these things. All of these are classic trollfic characteristics. If you want to, link me to the story, and I can confirm my suspicions.

P.S. I don't think the Board is the type of forum to do get all suspicious about it, but before somebody says "Hmm, he knows a lot about trollfics, I wonder if he..." I would like to say, "Ayup." That settle anything?

P.P.S. How did you get this thing to format in italics? I can't figure it out, and it's driving me up the wall!

as far as "hunting down the author duo" goes :-p

As a disclaimer: I'm not a PG and these are my personal views.

The PPC (at least IMHO) is more about mocking the fic than the author itself, and threatening/flaming authors doesn't do help our image as "fandom bullies".

My view of that we should be aiming for "love tolerate the author, hate the fic", to mangle a phrase. After all, that's why we have a beta-reading chain, and generally try to keep sporkings away from the fic's author.

As for the fic itself, I've read the first couple of chapters. I don't think the authors have managed to pull off a successful AU - i.e prove to us that Elves having affairs and divorces could work consistently (especially as it would involve justifying a /huge/ revision of Middle-Earth history). Plus the tragic sibling death.

My $0.02: the fic itself is sporkworthy, but let's not get too flamy about the authors themselves. I think we're better than that as a group, and it only causes trouble for the fandom as a whole.

/rant

Elcalion

Its a case of a writer thinking they know more about the series than the author does. People have rejected J.K. Rowling's canon of Harry Potter because they wanted Harry to end up with Hermione. Of course this is still unacceptable, and we're here to point out how wrong people are about these things, in a comical fashion so feel free friend.

Your agents look like fun, and you can definitely write well. Consider yourself permitted.

I realized that I never actually said that I understand the average salary of an agent. I do. When the Marquis was talking about lots of money, that's the amount before a large amount of fees are deducted. What, you actually thought that anything in HQ would be free? ;)

I intend to take on The Day I Became Mew once I get permission, and probably something from The Lord of the Rings after that. As you can tell, Randall and Alexis will be Freelancers. And, no, the above wording does not mean that I do not understand the possibility of rejection. It just means that I will continue to try until I do get accepted. And no, that does not mean that I don't think I will be accepted. It just means...never mind.

Welcome to the PPC! Here's a dagger set from the Raven Armory and a bottle of bleeprin. I'll be nice, I promise.

I'm feeling generous today.

But welcome to the PPC! Have a vinegaroon--a spider-like creature that can spray acetic acid from its tail.

Apologies for this late response; I was out of town.

Welcome! Here's a coxcomb. It's a sort of silly hat with Shakespearean lineage.

Welcome to the PPC! May your time here be long, enjoyable, and not too traumatizing.

*glomps* Hey, for me, that is treating you kindly. I could have nommed you. Newbies make very good noms. So anyhoo, remember how Honu_Wahine recommended that you abandon your sanity? It goes here. *indicates bucket marked "Warg Fodder"* Also, here's a compilation of Alfred Hitchcock cameos.

Welcome! Very glad the recent chaos hasn't scared everyone away. Have a very big chocolate cake (absent of Agent Lux) and an infinite-capacity purse.

I, also, am new. (Well, ish.) Here, have a piece of cheese and a yellow kite.

Fear us not, sibling-in-newbiness. Have a cardboard sword. It'll do jack squat against a 'Sue, but at least it rymes.

Please enjoy this genuine World War I British infantry helmet.

Fair winds!

*poke*

I don't know what you've already read, of course, but there are a few things you should definitely make time for. First, there is the Original PPC Series by Jay and Acacia. It is our canon and that which started it all.

Second, we require that everyone read and abide by the Board Constitution, because it's nicer that way.

After that, there are several helpful documents on the Wiki designed to help acquaint newcomers with us and our habits and behaviors and general weirdness. Sedri's Guide to the PPC is particularly informative, especially when combined with the FAQ for Newbies and the Mission Writing Guide. If you do want to write PPC missions, you should also see the article about how to get Official Permission.

And that's probably quite enough to start with. {= ) Welcome! Have a bumper-sticker! *sticks one on you* ^__^

~Neshomeh

Hello and welcome to the PPC Posting Board! Have some chocolate, and enjoy your stay here!

Here are a pair of cufflinks. Never underestimate their usefulness.

Take this cadian pattern lasgun. It served my grandaddy well, it served me well, and it'll serve you well now too.

atten-shun.

Hello! Have a seventeen foot long, multi-colored, wool, knit scarf (curly wig not included), and a bag of jelly babies.

Please use them IRresponsibly!

I'm rather new as well, but haven't had any trouble so far. Take this bladed yo-yo for if you do, though.

Welcome to the PPC!

You're welcome to join our Chatroom if you like, we have a sizable crowd in there right now. :D

Feel free to read everything on the wiki if you have not already, especially everything under the PPC Intro Pages sidebar.

Welcome to the board, newbie. Have a lead-filled baseball: it's good for beaning 'Sues and partners in the head, and it also makes an excellent paperweight.
So... just, welcome to the board. Don't defend a 'Sue (just mock them. . .mocking is good. mocking is your friend!), be courteous, and abandon your sanity. You won't need it, and you probably won't miss it. (Not here, anyways.)
-HW

We're nice to everyone here, save the sues and those filthy nerf herders.

I kid the nerf herders.

Have an uncomfortably small nose guard.

My phonology professor went on about this endlessly. In short, what we write as "h" is, in practice, a voiceless version of whatever vowel follows it - try saying the words "house", "hair", "hear" and so on, and notice the way your mouth shapes itself before you start to speak; hold it, and then alternate between voicing and not-voicing (that is, vibrating vocal chords - an easier example of that is to hiss "sssssssss-zzzzzzzzz-sssssssss-zzzzzzz" and feel the difference in your throat).

Sorry, I ramble. I like that subject. Anyway, point is, in practice people often drop whatever half-formed sound there is that tries to be an "h" in the first place, and so we use "an", but that's only verbal. In writing - at least until our writing system changes to reflect spoken language, again (and becomes even MORE complicated, *sigh*) - you always need to use the "a". It'll look wrong on paper otherwise.


...I've gone lecture-y again, haven't I? Sorry. But I hope that helps.

Depends on whether you follow that the H is silent or not. It can make a difference, but its totally up to your style or how you were taught.

It has to do with whether the next word has a vowel sound, not letter. So it would be "a historian" or "an 'istorian." In writing, it would probably depend on whether you wrote out the accent.

I'm pretty sure that a/an depends on the first pronounced sound of a word. Since you leave off the initial h when speaking, you should probably use "an" when talking to someone, but I would use "a" when writing. That's just my opinion, though, and might not be the correct usage.

A knock sounds on the RC door, and Randall opens it. He barely has time to see the smiling agents on the other side before they throw a bucket of water in his face.

"What is this!" he cries, stumbling back.

"A water fight. I wondered when I might need this," Alexis answers, pulling out a huge gun and filling it with water. "Take one, we're going hunting!"

A smile slowly spreads across the soaked agent's face, but is quickly dispelled. "What about the console?"

"That is the biggest reason to chase them. Here—this one's full."

Randall just managed to catch the gun his partner threw at him before it fell on the floor. He spent some time trying to get comfortable with it, and wound up pulling the trigger.

"Randall?" his partner cried, now wetter than he was. "You do notshoot your senior partner...at least not without expecting retaliation!"

The blast of water hit Randall in the chest and splashed across the small room. The console was somehow aware of this, and let out an alarmed-sounding BEEP!

"Let's take this outside. Here, give me that. I'll fill it up again."

When both water guns were full, the two agents carefully exited their RC. Randall's grin was quite predatory.

I popped my head out of my response center when I heard the yelling. I smiled, seeing that a water fight had broken out in the halls. I had taken the liberty of preparing myself for it this time. I pulled the AK-47 out from underneath my desk, and fingered the trigger lovingly, receiving a strange look from Leila, my partner. The DoSAT guy had demanded half a gallon of Bleepka in exchange for making it shoot bursts of water, but it would all be worth it soon. I ran out of my response center and through the halls. For once, the shifting corridors obliged me and I got to the cafeteria. I ducked behind an overturned table, and began blasting every agent in sight. Soon, I had gotten into a firefight with a guy from ESAS who had gotten the same idea as me, only with Uzis. I was hiding behind an overturned table, when out of the corner of my eye, I noticed Leila charging through the cafeteria doors. She ran through the spraying water, and somersaulted behind my table. I didn't look at her, pretending to be focused on loading ammo. "I don't need the help!" I told her.
She grinned broadly at me. "I didn't come to help, matey!"
I didn't have time to cry out as the balloon hit me, because a second one came right after it. Sputtering water, I saw her charging off, giggling. I stood up, waving my gun at her. "I'll get you for this, Leila! I'll get y-"
I didn't have time to finish my sentence, as the agent I had been fighting with blasted me in the side. Sopping wet, I ran back to my response center, gunning down anyone in my way.
The machine gun hadn't been my original idea. The DoSAT guy had told me my original idea was rather unstable, so he had made the AK-47 to make it up to me. (I am positive that his generosity was due to my wonderful personality as opposed to the fact that I had my battleax with me at the time). In any case, he had also given me the prototype. Cackling, I grabbed the Panzerschreck. A Panzerschreck is like a bazooka, only larger and German. I also grabbed my backpack, which I had previously filled with water balloons. The halls seemed to have returned to their usual unhelpfulness, and it took me over ten minutes to reach the cafeteria. It was a madhouse, or at least more that usually so. I looked for my errant partner, and finally saw her, laughing with some of her friends from DoI as they pelted people . I ran up to them, lauching balloons. They screamed, and ran away, through one of the many corridors leading out of the cafeteria. I ran after them, smiling so widely it looked like my head was about to fall off.
I really should have been more suspicious.
A huge black mass slammed into me, lifting me off my feet. As it hit me, it burst, drenching me with water. I hit the floor, rubbed some of the water from my eyes, and came to my senses in time to see what was happening.
They had rigged up a Canon Catapult, and were loading it with a trash bag filled with water. I jumped to my feet, and started running towards them. I dodged the next trash bag, and jumped onto the arm of the catapault. I blasted the DoI agents again, and I could tell the screaming was genuine this time. As I was shooting, I didn't notice Leila running towards me. Before I could shoot her, she pulled the lever that fired the catapult.
I suddenly flew through the air, out of the hallway, and back into the cafeteria. Snarling, incoherent with rage, I grabbed my gun, sighted my partner over the barrel, and fired.
Pro tip: a Panzerschreck looks the same from both ends, and will fire even if you're holding it backwards. I had been holding it against my chest, and the blast knocked the wind out of me. Hazily, I saw my partner looking at me with a smug impression on her face. Her buddies were crowded around her. "Give up yet?" she asked.
I don't answer. Instead, I reach into my backpack with both hands and pull out a bunch of small balloons. "I didn't want it to have to escalate to this level," I sighed.
They lift their much larger balloons threateningly, not seeming very worried by my pitiful weaponry. "What kind of escalation do you call that?"
Instead of answering, I toss the balloons at them, turn tail, and run. I hear screams behind me. "WHAT IS THIS?"
Trying not to laught, I shout over my shoulder to the pursuing agents, "The Urple Bandits triumph again!"

And, as Agent Silikat is an anthro cat, she is now severely annoyed.
"Okay, who was that?" she yelled down the corridor, but there was nobody in sight. Sighing loudly, she retreated back into her RC, only to be soaked again from behind. Silikat span around on one paw, fur dripping with what she really hoped was water.

There was nobody there.
"Bast!" Sili swore, retreating into her RC to get a water gun. Nobody soaked her and got away with it!

[Agent Silikat is one of the agents I have planned for when I get Permission. She's an anthro cat or Jellicle from the Cats continum. Just thought I'd let you know.]

Michel shook off the urge to speak in all caps as water from an unknown source dripped down his sideburns. "Who threw that?" he yelled again, with slightly more reasonable punctuation.

No one answered. Michel ducked back into his RC and snatched up the cache of water balloons that his partner had been saving for just such an occasion. "No one will confess?" he challenged, stepping back into the hall. "Then you will ALL face the penalty!"

He let loose a barrage of water balloons, aiming indiscriminately. "I am Agent Michel Javert, guardian of the peace and exorcist of bad slash! And no one hits me with a water balloon and gets away with it!"

The petite agent sticks her head out the door and is immediately hit with the fallout of a high-powered attack by someone so soaked as to be unrecognizable. She blinks, grins, and withdraws her head for a moment, wiping dripping lavender strands of hair out of her face.

"Sis!" she yells into the depths of the RC. "C'mon, there's a waterfight!"

"There's a WHAT? Never mind, don't tell me, I don't care, I don't want to know, I want nothing to do with it and DO NOT CALL ME SIS!"

"So touchy," Kimmie muttered, and flung herself out the door, beaming.

"Oy! That's MY ammunition!" an unrecognizable sodden figure protested as she scurried past him.

"Sorry!" she lied, flinging herself around the corner and skidding an impressive distance on her rear, tossing water balloons willy-nilly behind her until she ran out and collided with something simultaneously. "Hello, Lux," she chirped, figuring that was a safe assumption given that the something had already gotten a hand under her first two layers of clothing. "Got any ammo?"

[Sidenote: This is Kimmie's first appearance; as I recall I don't need permission, right? She's a happy-go-lucky purple-haired gothic Lolita and is from an anime continuum. Hence the clothes and hair.)

'cause there's no tellin' whether that's actually WATER in my balloons.

Eh heh heh heh heh...

Agent Whatever finds some water-based rifles and gives them to Krisp and South. While he makes water bombs for himself, the other two start shooting randomly at everyone.
"YAY! A WATER FIGHT!" says Krisprolls.
South tints his own water red and shoots. "Everything's better with blood! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!"
"South, you might want to tone it down just a little," says What' while he starts shooting hos bombs all over the place.
"No way. Unless you want to have a taste?"
"No, thanks."
"What's not to love in you two," says Krisp.

*splash*
Agent Iodin spluttered as a very large water balloon came sailing in a ballistic arc and burst over her head.

The Chiss agent's glowing red eyes narrowed in annoyance and rage and she brushed her sopping blue-black hair from her forehead.

"Logan!" she yelled, but the shaggy-haired human Agent had already run away across the cafeteria, followed by new recruit Riboflavin, whom Logan had recuited as part of his water balloon rampage through HQ.

The pair aimed a volley of water balloons at Agent Kern, but the Jedi deflected the oncoming projectiles with a wave of his hand.

"This one's resisting arrest! Get him!" called Riboflavin.

From across the cafeteria, several Agents who had been involved in water battles now converged on the unfortunate Jedi.

"Quick, get one of the special water balloons," prompted Logan.

Riboflavin complied, producing a large balloon from their stash - a Bag of Holding. The balloon was emblazoned with a large "U".

"That's the one!" said Logan, lobbing the balloon at Kern, whose control of the Force was not sufficient to block every balloon. Unfortunately for Kern, he blocked two normal water balloons and let the "special" balloon through.

Said "special" balloon turned out to be filled with urple paint, a deluge of which covered Kern's blond hair completely and was dripping on his robes.

Flabbergasted, the Jedi stood in the middle of the cafeteria, a picture of woe, with his jaw opening and closing as he struggled for words.

"Sithspawn!" he yelled, running after Logan and Riboflavin. "I'll get you for that!"

"Mwa-hah! Urple banditry foreveeeer!!" cackled Logan as he ran out of the cafeteria, cloesely followed by Riboflavin, with Kern in hot pursuit right behind them.

The Nurses had finally gotten Kyle to turn loose of the piping on the ceiling for the fourth time this morning, and Cali noticed that there was a third rip in Kyle's new jeans. Apparently the de-glittering process plus chocolate had reacted in Kyle to produce both incredible energy and the incredible desire to climb. Cali checked that Kevin was holding Caster, the winged mad scientist in the form of a kitten, and Hannah was holding, the baby, Helen. He took Kyle's hand and opened the door of Medical.

Swoosh!

Cali stood, spluttering, as water poured off him. Whomever had rigged the giant bucket of water over the door of Medical had apparently been monitoring their trap, because mad cackles of laughter drifted down the hall to his left.

At the sound of pounding feet and splashes of water coming closer from the opposite direction, Cali stepped back into Medical and pulled the door mostly closed. One Agent ran past him carrying a large water gun, which he was firing back over his shoulder at another Agent who seemed to have a bag of infinite water balloons.

He smiled when the cackling of the booby trapper changed to squawks of protest amid the sounds of water balloon splashes. The Agent with the water gun came stalking back around by Cali.

Cali risked another soaking to poke his head out the door, and ask, "What is going on here?"

"All HQ water gun fight," the Agent said just before he squirted Cali in the face and continued his stalk down the hall.

Cali turned to tell the Nurses what was going on, but found that they had been listening the whole time. Fortunately they had caught Kyle when Cali had let him go.

"Maybe we should wa-" Cali began.

The Nurse holding Kyle by the collar, interrupted him, "You are taking these children to the Nursery, and you will do it now.

"Did someone say wat-" *splash*

"Ok," said the Troll, "Whoevah got my hat wet is gonna get it."

*runs to find a water-based weapon*

*breaks out spud gun, starts filling water balloons*

I do solemnly swear to be less flamethrower-happy and more constructive-criticism-happy with any PPC piece or related fanwork I shall do in the future. I will try to help, and not hurt, and strive to be funny even for the authors of the fanfics I parody.

Thank you for the soapbox!

I wonder if this large elaborate post citing the definitions on a cursory google search will do anything to clarify to there people.

http://community.livejournal.com/the_ppc/52871.html?thread=244871#t244871

At this point, my guess is 'no,' and I'm understanding why Sedri was so hesitant to spend any time talking to these people.

But my personal feelings regarding her haven't changed significantly, especially after her response. I still wish to talk about them, but I can always do that in my LJ.

PS: I posted on the Anti-Sporking Essay Thread before I read this one. If I said anything there that may not agree with what you said, i'm sorry.

I replied to impertinence with what I felt was a small summary of our Misogyny discussion.

But I did end up reading it, and it made me rethink how I write my own characters. Up to now, I've been kind of paranoid about making Mary Sues by accident, stressing over whether there's too much angst, or whether having child abuse in the past is a good idea or not, or whether this explanation is good enough for that certain trait or event. But I guess, reading this, I realize that the important thing is for the character to have meaningful strengths and equally meaningful weaknesses, and for each character to react to certain situations realistically and according to said strengths and weaknesses.

Am I hitting close to the nail here?

In response to your post, Neshomeh, I've been thinking of doing something interesting with my agents; namely, having them tackle one of my own badfics. I dunno, maybe it'll give me better perspective on how to write missions without being unintentionally and needlessly insulting.

Must get you a comfier soapbox if you're going to use it this well. I applaud you.

You think two pages is long, try slogging through fifteen! And I wrote them!

Mature, thoughtful, not a spur-of-the-moment response (or at least, it doesn't look like one) and it's in no way a rant. Has anyone put a link to this on Boosette's essay yet?

First of all, that was a great post you just made. It was gently nudging us in the right direction, I feel. I do have a slightly different opinion on concrit, though.

Is it a nice thing to do? Sure. Is it good if the PPC does it? Of course. Should it be mandatory--should we feel like we have to? Absolutely not.

PotCSues put it very well when she said:

I never review the people I report, mostly because in order to give constructive criticism, I have to feel as though the story in question has some merit and that the author will be receptive to my critique. As such, I don't want to waste my time honestly critiquing a story for someone who will not benefit from it and/or who did not put any effort into their story in the first place.

In other words, constructive criticism won't work if:

a) there's no solid foundation (canon knowledge and/or language knowledge) to construct something on. If the best we can say is, "You might want to read the books you say you're a fan or," or "Please find a third-grader to teach you why end punctuation is a good idea," then there's really no point in giving concrit. We can be betas, but we can't be Remedial Writing 101; there's only so much we can do.

b) the author doesn't actually care about the fanfic s/he is writing. More than once, I've caught blatant admissions that the Suethors wrote a fic down while on the phone, in class, or watching TV. If that's the case, we'll have put more effort into our critique than they'll have put into writing the fic in the first place. To mock such a fic will give us entertainment; critiquing it seems like a waste of our time.

c) the author is not receptive to criticism. This is often the case in Suefic. It’s one of the many problems with creating a Mary Sue: since the Suethor identifies with the character so strongly, s/he tends to treat even slightly negative comments about said character as a terrible personal insult.

I would argue that at least one of those holds true for a majority of the badfic we come across. That being the case, I will give concrit when I believe it will actually do some good, but I won't feel as if I am obligated to do so before every sporking or every mission.

~Araeph

It's clear, well thought out, and in no way 'propagandized.' Good work.

I agree. I'm not interested in the author backlash. One of my pet peeves is intimidating the weak. What is important is just having fun, and I know that if I get criticised, I'd feel bad too, but it's important to take it in your stride and try harder next time. There are a couple of things I can't just say yes to, but they're minor points and I'd shoot myself in the foot trying to explain them anyway.

So yeah. It's not bullying or misogyny. just having a lark at bad writing.

Most certainly, this is an important part of the natural cycle of things. Deviation~correction~deviation~correction. That pattern is the way our world operates, and those that do not correct deviate away from what they originally were.

Of course, after Neshomeh spells it out so clearly it seems simple, but these things find a way of slipping in.

That is why giving the PPC a constitution is the wisest thing the Founders could have possibly done. It sets the standard and we need to remember to follow it, or the PPC will find itself astray from its course.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

Believe it or not, the PPC does have a measure of power, especially when compared to the influence of one person. Its you who gets to decide how that power is used, so choose wisely.

The standard for MST's seems to be to put one or two lines of agent/character dialogue in between every line of fanfic dialogue.

I think that this is a mistake - it only serves to make reading the thing too disjointed. With video commentary you are given two types of input: audio and visual. This allows you to get a gist of how the story goes while you hear the snarky commentary. In a completely written work you don't have this.

I'd say it's better if you lump commentary/story into larger sections each. Say, a paragraph of narration or a large chunk of a conversation, then then a small exchange of character dialogue. This also is an exercise in elegance - jokes become rarer, and you are forced to go with quality over quantity.

To go along with the current discussions going on in the PPC forum, this might also reduce the instances of characters commenting on potentially hurtful statements directly to the author.

...appreciative of all the work my mom and her siblings put into letting my grandfather live at home for as long as possible. He ultimately died at home, so it was definitely worth the months and months spent gently convincing him that he needed various types of help.

It's a tragic story and I sincerely hope that Clay wins his court case. The way the LGBT community is treated in the United States (and around most of the world, for that matter) is deplorable. Everyone - no exceptions - deserves fair and equal treatment under the law.

That being said, I agree with JulyFlame. We are not getting all the facts. The website on which the story is posted has a rather obvious bias. The story itself is loaded with images of pathos designed to tweak the heart-strings of the reader.

I'd like to read interviews with both Clay and representatives of the county to find out their perspectives. I want to read the reasoning behind the judgements against these two men. I want to know as many of the facts as possible. To quote one of my favorite authors, "Data, data, data! I can't make bricks without clay."

Whenever I start developing a dangerous amount of faith in human nature, I read something like this and remember exactly why I hate people so much.

Clay had BETTER win that lawsuit, is all I have to say. And I hope he can manage to make sure that things like this don't happen again.

I honestly don't know what to say apart from that.

...that reading this made me tear up a little. I find it hard to believe, or understand why, the county could simply take everything those two had and sell it. It's inhuman, and it's practically stealing.
I'm tempted to exploit Godwin's Law at this point. Out of respect, I will not. But in all seriousness, as an American, I find myself completely ashamed. Heck, last Friday, my high school held a Day of Silence in protest to the way homosexuals are being treated. I didn't think much of it at the time, and I didn't participate, but reading this made me realize how poignant their message was. On a day-to-day basis, I don't really think about these kinds of issues, because my school is extremely diverse, and with that diversity comes a certain level of liberalness. One of my best friends is openly, and unapologetically homosexual. I literally can't imagine anyone looking down on him for it, because everyone finds it pretty much impossible to dislike him.

*takes off glasses, wipes eyes, and steps down from her soap box*

Anyway... now I'm all depressed again.

I can't believe people would do something like this. They did everything they could, and still this happened. This is just... I don't even have the words.

Whatever your moral stance on their lifestyle, no one should be treated like they were. Maybe the story left parts out, stories usually do, but really, I see this incident as a commentary on the legal situation of most elderly people, regardless of their lifestyle.

It isn't only homosexual couples who are living together unmarried either. There are heterosexual couples who did not want to re-marry due to loss of income, or attachment to a deceased spouse. There are even instances of couples forced to have their marriages legally dissolved to be able to qualify for needed government assistance. Then there are sibling groups who have lived together for many years, because their spouses are gone. I knew a set of twin sisters who lived together for 30 years after their spouses died. They were the only person the other one had due to the early deaths of their children.

Maybe if these men had been a het married couple, the county would have allowed them into the same nursing home, but I have even seen elderly married couples split up due to differing levels of care needed. And even a married couple would have most likely faced the same forced entry into the nursing home and the loss of possessions.

I'm sure there is an exception to this that someone can point out. I am generalizing--Nursing homes in general are truly appalling places for the residents and the caregivers. Unless there is outside family actively involved-as in random near daily visits-the elderly patient is very unlikely to receive good care. As far as the caregivers go, those in the lowest rungs who are actually giving the full body care that the neediest patients require, are paid minimum wage and assigned so may tasks that it is impossible to do more than just basic assembly line personal care. Until there are rules set up to require that adequate staffing be maintained (and turnover will always be high at minimum wage, think of the work actually being done by these people), the owners will continue to exploit both ends-the patients by taking everything they ever owned and the lowest level workers by under-staffing and under-paying.

This is an awful situation, made worse by the lack of humanity shown to these men, but it should bring the focus not just to elderly gay couples, but to all the elderly who are just a fall away from loss of all their legal rights. It is a situation that defies all ethical bounds, as far as I am concerned, and I'm glad Bronwyn pointed it out. Awareness of a problem is the first step to solving a problem.

I feel so sorry for those poor people. From how that sounds, they have been treated very unfairly and unjustly.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

For sure, things were done and handled wrong by that county. But at the same time, I'm wondering what the article left out because it feels like there are important details missing.

...is this board really the right place for political statements? Not trying to offend, just asking.

Your agents look like a ton of fun (I am thoroughly entertained by the idea of an ex-god), and they're well written.

One suggestion, though - a beta would not go amiss. there were multiple places where I think your wording was rather awkward, and a good beta would help.

A link to the original fic. Wish I could edit.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2595136/1/Do_You_Believe

Both stories have been added to the Unclaimed Badfic page.

I guess I can't really blame the author of the second one. I mean... when a Hunter jumps you, it looks a dang lot like it's trying to rape you.

Huh. One of the new agents I'm contemplating actually is a Hunter rendered sentient by badfic. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's not a rare thing for badfic to do.

1. Chantel » by TheSongOfNature reviews
   A girl is sent to Stalag 13, sick and beaten.
   Rated: T - English - Romance/Humor - Chapters: 3 - Words: 6,331 - Reviews: 14 - Updated: 3-29-06 - Published: 3-11-06
   
   My comment: I see no-thing…
   
   2. Alone In The Rain » by foreveraloneintherain reviews
   After an awful summer Hermione looks forward to escaping to school but unexpectedly school isn't the escape she was looking for.
   Harry Potter - Rated: T - English - Chapters: 6 - Words: 4,444 - Reviews: 12 - Updated: 4-13-10 - Published: 4-8-10 - Draco M. & Hermione G.
   
   My comment: *yawns*
   
   *disappears*

Thanks for the reports.

Mini-Pak'Ma'Ra is just awkward to say and to type, although admittedly mini squid-cthulhu sarcodines would be cool.

Mini-Shadows is a pretty good compromise between Mini-Vorlons and Mini-Pak'Ma'Ra.

Oh, and ninja-laser-kudos for writing B5 missions. I couldn't find any badfic for them-

Obviously I wasn't looking hard enough.

And, um, many virtual glomps to you for writing B5 missions. I don't know if I'd dare. (*glances down* Marcus? Really? I mean... Marcus? I think my brain just broke.)

Are you writing a B5 mission? That would be awesome.

If you aren't writing a mission, then there really is no need to create the Mini at this point, leave that for whoever is writing a B5 mission, that is part of the fun.

As for my thoughts:

Vorlons and Shadows are nigh on God-like. They would need to be nerfed drastically to be a mini.

Pak'ma'ra, however, are just about the most awesome idea ever, ever.

When there's another thread on the top of the page showing badfic, it's usually a better idea to post it in that thread as well to conserve front page space instead of bumping a later thread off needlessly.

This story is like the condensation of all the awful, creepy things that typically appear in Org. XIII slashfic. I can't even read this kind of crap without feeling a little sick.

Hooo boy. I suppose it's too much to hope that you intend to kill it and the rest of us can forget about it and ignore our stupid senses of obligation?

Technically, showgirls, red sonja, hellsing and black lagoon all pass the bechdel test, and none of them are exactly outstanding examples of gender equality. On the other hand, movies like the silence of the lambs and the lord of the rings movies(go and watch them again, I don't think there's any point where two women talk to each other) fail, but you can't say that movie is sexist. Spirited away passes, but all the women are servants, apart from the old witch-like characters. And I'm not even getting into games. System shock and bioshock? The characters spend most of their time talking to or about Jack/Subject delta/the Hacker. So it fails, but... SHODAN? Lansing? Tenenbaum? Lamb? All of them important female characters. Final fantasy X-2 passes, haha that's not sexist at all.

Scanning the front layer of my bookcase:
I don't think half of the discworld books pass, but you can't accuse terry pratchett of being a misogynistic pig. TWILIGHT, of all things, passes. My bloody Warhammer books pass, and the only women in the entire world seem to be incredibly rare or Sisters of Shallya. nearly all of the manga I own passes, and I dare you to say manga is usually gender-equal. V for vendetta fails. Batman passes. I can't even remember if Dune passes. I'd dig deeper, but I might get lost.

TL;DR while the test may help determine the gender equality of media, it is by no means a perfect reflection of the sexism inherent in said media.